Skier Rides Avy Onto CO Hwy, Buried, Survives

[Alpinord]

It sounded like everything happened REAL FAST between release, cliff drop and burial.

[goldenboy]

It sounded like everything happened REAL FAST between release, cliff drop and burial.

Often does. I'm sure he was doing his best to make evasive maneuvers and avoid the cliff/ rocks as best he could, too. Plus he also had an avalung to consider to try to get in his mouth. Still wonder if he was skiing around with it zipped up, I've seen others do it.

[adrenalated]

Often does. I'm sure he was doing his best to make evasive maneuvers and avoid the cliff/ rocks as best he could, too. Plus he also had an avalung to consider to try to get in his mouth. Still wonder if he was skiing around with it zipped up, I've seen others do it.

Some professionals advocate NOT deploying an airbag in treed terrain. IIRC the argument is that being on top of the slide could increase velocity and make you more susceptible to trauma. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm also not aware of very much research done on the effectiveness of airbags in trees.

Personally, I keep the trigger out the vast majority of the time. Pretty much the only time it's stowed are on skintracks that I know are 100% not exposed to terrain over 30*.

[rudy]

Pretty much the only time it's stowed are on skintracks that I know are 100% not exposed to terrain over 30*.

Even then I tend to leave mine out just to eliminate the potential of forgetting to get the trigger out on the decent

[cravenmorhead]

Some professionals advocate NOT deploying an airbag in treed terrain. IIRC the argument is that being on top of the slide could increase velocity and make you more susceptible to trauma. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm also not aware of very much research done on the effectiveness of airbags in trees.

Do you have a cite, or is this an around-the-campfire sort of "advocate?" Seems like suspect logic to me, particularly since most airbags are designed to offer at least some trauma protection (though I get that triggering an airbag doesn't help you if you take a splintered tree limb through the torso). I feel like I'd rather hit trees/limbs if I'm on the surface then get raked through a nightmare of broken limbs while also suffocating.

The avalung+airbag+escape demands on your attention in a very short period of time is certainly something to chew on, particularly if you use both an avalung and an airbag. Seems like trying to escape the slide should always be goal #1.

[adrenalated]

Do you have a cite, or is this an around-the-campfire sort of "advocate?"

I distinctly remember reading an argument to this effect from a particular catskiing guide/professional avalanche forecaster on his website. His site has since been deleted. I recall reading it elsewhere too but unfortunately I can't remember where.

[covert]

Do you have a cite, or is this an around-the-campfire sort of "advocate?"

People pay me to talk smart and make avalanches and shit. I've gone on record numerous times questioning the wisdom of airbag use in multiple scenarios. Trauma protection from airbags is anecdotal at best. More of a marketing gimmick in my opinion.

Your comment on 'goal #1' is the primary reason for not focusing on airbag deployment in certain scenarios.

[steezybomber]

Very interesting. glad to see he made it out okay, sure appears that the avalung did its job. from the research ive done (just reading, no real world avalung experience), the biggest problem is most people do not ski with the mouth piece in their mouth and trying to get it into place while subsequently being ripped down in a slide is hard to do. but damn, 20 mins under and have him driving up the road to assist is great luck.

i didnt see any info on wearing a beacon? 4 feet under is deep, I would assume he was wearing it to be located, but nothing to confirm. Would seem senseless to have an airbag and an avalung and no beacon.

id be interested in seeing some intel on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) for the airbag in trees. any more info on the slide that was captured on go pro?

edit: Found the vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSMKdXvJ31M

[adrenalated]

Words from the guy caught:
http://backcountrymagazine.com/stori...y-9-avalanche/

[wyeaster]

intense.

[summit]

Good writeup

[Timberridge]

https://www.facebook.com/tom.oye.9/v...type=2&theater

[LightRanger]

Very interesting. glad to see he made it out okay, sure appears that the avalung did its job. from the research ive done (just reading, no real world avalung experience), the biggest problem is most people do not ski with the mouth piece in their mouth and trying to get it into place while subsequently being ripped down in a slide is hard to do. but damn, 20 mins under and have him driving up the road to assist is great luck.

i didnt see any info on wearing a beacon? 4 feet under is deep, I would assume he was wearing it to be located, but nothing to confirm. Would seem senseless to have an airbag and an avalung and no beacon.

id be interested in seeing some intel on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) for the airbag in trees. any more info on the slide that was captured on go pro?

edit: Found the vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSMKdXvJ31M

I'm missing the connection here. Did somebody else mention this upthread? That clip was from Whistler area and the dude was wearing an airbag pack. Were you just citing that as an example of airbag effectiveness? Sorry. I didn't follow.

[summit]

I'm missing the connection here. Did somebody else mention this upthread? That clip was from Whistler area and the dude was wearing an airbag pack. Were you just citing that as an example of airbag effectiveness? Sorry. I didn't follow.

I found it interesting that video came out the same time as the slide being discussed in this thread. Guy in Whistler had a BD airbag pack. Guy in this slide had a BD Avalung. BD put the Whistler slide up on their social media, but not the Avalung pic.

[Timberridge]

I'm missing the connection here. Did somebody else mention this upthread? That clip was from Whistler area and the dude was wearing an airbag pack. Were you just citing that as an example of airbag effectiveness? Sorry. I didn't follow.

You can make to the road with an avalung, but not with an airbag

[LightRanger]

^^^ But only if you're hitting the line switch.

I found it interesting that video came out the same time as the slide being discussed in this thread. Guy in Whistler had a BD airbag pack. Guy in this slide had a BD Avalung. BD put the Whistler slide up on their social media, but not the Avalung pic.

Interesting. You'd think they'd be happy with the performance of both of their products...?

[Timberridge]

^^^ But only if you're hitting the line switch.



Interesting. You'd think they'd be happy with the performance of both of their products...?

Was he on twin tips?

They probably need some sort of permission to do so from the victim.

[summit]

They don't need permission to share a public facebook post from a newspaper.

[Yonder_River]

How stoked must he have been when the probe hit him. Wow.

Damn non-pack avalungs still sold out everwhere. Starting to wonder what the deal is.

[summit]

How stoked must he have been when the probe hit him. Wow.

Damn non-pack avalungs still sold out everwhere. Starting to wonder what the deal is.

Wilderness Sports in Dillon has one for sale last week (970) 468-5687

[adrenalated]

Damn non-pack avalungs still sold out everwhere. Starting to wonder what the deal is.

http://www.wildernessx.com/avalung-ii.html

[Yonder_River]

http://www.wildernessx.com/avalung-ii.html

Thanks, I need a large one though. Will give that store in Dillon a call though.

[summit]

Thanks, I need a large one though. Will give that store in Dillon a call though.

The one they had was the Avalung Element made to attach to any pack strap, not the II made to be worn by itself. If a large II is what you are looking for, I might be able to help out. LMK.

[LightRanger]

I've said this here before a number of times, but I've always loved my Avalung II for potential NARSIDS issues. I'll wear it inbounds in Tahoe on weekends like this coming weekend for that reason. Seems to me that it's more likely to be used "in anger" in that situation than a slide. So far gotten at least somewhat stuck in two treewells over the years, but zero unintentional slides of any note. (Obviously this is an academic comparison, still good to have no matter which problem you're looking at.)

[LightRanger]

Words from the guy caught:
http://backcountrymagazine.com/stori...y-9-avalanche/

Just read this. Props to the author about detailing his thought processes. I found that very helpful in terms of understanding what they did wrong and trying to take things away from his write-up. This stuff was particularly useful...

The road was so close, I was sure I had a solid line. I even entertained the thought that I could outrun a slide on such a short pitch. I ignored the sirens reminding me that the 40-degree slope probably would slide with the weight of a skier added to the fragile slope. I ignored the fact that I was skiing into a terrain trap next to an area of cliffs without a sure line-of-sight to the bottom.

I didn’t even consider the only right answer in this dangerous situation, the only answer with a high probability for a safe descent to the road: I should have pulled my skins out of my pack, taken the time and energy to carefully skin straight back up and traverse through the trees to a much lower angled slope a few hundred yards down the pass. I guess I sometimes forget that going back up is an option. I doubt I will ever forget that again.

As I checked with Mark to make sure he was in a safe zone anchored by a tree, I bit down hard on the mouthpiece of the AvaLung I always carry. I practiced reaching for the handle to trigger the airbag on a pack I was borrowing from a friend. It was the last piece of safety equipment I had been hesitant to procure due to price. I felt more confident with the pack, which was maybe not such a good thing in hindsight.

I turned and headed out onto the fragile slope, thinking I could make it to the vantage point I had been eyeing. Almost immediately, the slope fractured and liquefied. I instinctively pointed my skis downhill to try to ride the slide out. Then the horizon disappeared as I launched over a cliff band and felt myself falling into the white room. I had no idea how far I had to fall or what was at the bottom. Before I knew what was happening, I was spread-eagled on my stomach with a heavy weight piling onto my back.

I vaguely thought the airbag pack should have floated me to the surface but realized that I hadn’t pulled the ripcord. I firmly believe now that muscle memory through regular practice is the only way to have that ripcord pulled in an emergency. There was just too much input in the moment for my mind to react properly.

The bolded language seems like an argument for a fan-based pack in terms of being able to practice more. You hear people talk about it, but here's a dude who was wearing an airbag pack (granted, one he had just borrowed from a friend), was caught in a slide, didn't deploy it, and believes in hindsight that he only could have deployed it in the necessary time window of his incident if he had regularly practiced. Some food for thought.