Taking up heel room in touring boots

[zion zig zag]

I'm skiing Scarpa Maestrale RS which are nice and roomy in the toes and forefoot by design to stay warm and comfy on long days. However, I have some heel lift in each boot. Strangely enough, I notice the heel lift on one foot while climbing and the other foot while skiing. Stock liners, molded once with super thin socks and toe caps, kicking back to create heel pocket. I took the boots to the shop yesterday to see if they could fix the heel lift issue and everything they tried involved putting some fairly thick foam material in different positions around the heel/ankle, this resulted in better heel hold but took room away from the toe area by pushing my foot forward. It also squeaked in walk mode which may or may not drive me crazy over the course of a long day. I wanted to avoid putting a shim or wedge under my heel as the ramp angle on Dynafits is already too high and I'd rather not add to it.

It seems like there should be a way to take some room in the heel without affecting the fit of the rest of the boot. Is this bootfitter a hack?

[Alpinord]

How much foam is truly needed to eliminate the movement? Why not recook them with minimal foam where needed to keep the toe area roomy? You can try just reheating around where you add foam to modify the fit.

[adrenalated]

Is this bootfitter a hack?

Yes. If adding the foam pushes your whole foot forward, then they are adding it in the wrong spot (for your foot).

I have absurdly narrow feet and have cured heel lift problems in most of my boots with butterfly foam wraps. In your case, L-pads might be more appropriate.

[old goat]

Wedge under the heel worked for me under an Intuition liner, if you can deal with the increased forward lean.

[XXX-er]

I always use a foot bed like yoursole.com or superfeet because they support my foot & arch (which is flat) and they are cheap at 40$ or so

the bottom of the foot bed is a grey minicell like foam so I sand the foam off the bottom of just the toe if it makes the toes too tight

[zion zig zag]

OK, I'll have to go see another bootfitter. I've got custom insoles that I pulled out of some older boots and they feel good, so I don't think I need to modify there. I was envisioning something like the higher density foam area on the back of a power wrap liner, just something to define the heel pocket a bit more.

[milestogo]

What type of foam did the boot fitter use? J-Bar pads worked for me in a similar situation, in conjunction with a full length shim under the liner and superfeet insoles. I have ridiculously low volume feet.

[zion zig zag]

What type of foam did the boot fitter use? J-Bar pads worked for me in a similar situation, in conjunction with a full length shim under the liner and superfeet insoles. I have ridiculously low volume feet.

Several different variations of this: http://www.tognar.com/ankle-wrap-pads-pair/

I don't need a ton of room taken up, but it can only be in the heel. If it affects the rest of the boots fit it just isn't worth it.

[smooth operator]

Heel wedge IN the boot may have a different effect than increasing binding ramp. The cuff of the boot doesn't move forward in case of a wedge/shim in the boot, whereas binding ramp does alter this.

[mntlion]

is the heel movement

1) side to side

2) up and down

3) pronation roll?

[auvgeek]

wanted to avoid putting a shim or wedge under my heel as the ramp angle on Dynafits is already too high and I'd rather not add to it.

If you really can't get butterfly wraps to work, you might want to try heel shims and see if they fix the problem. You can always shim the toes of your Dynafits to offset the ramp. (But boot board angle and the ramp angle aren't exactly the same thing, so you might not need to shim the toes.) Just a thought.

[zion zig zag]

is the heel movement

1) side to side

2) up and down

3) pronation roll?

Up and down.

[zion zig zag]

If you really can't get butterfly wraps to work, you might want to try heel shims and see if they fix the problem. You can always shim the toes of your Dynafits to offset the ramp. (But boot board angle and the ramp angle aren't exactly the same thing, so you might not need to shim the toes.) Just a thought.

I just added a 4.7mm toe shim to the dynafits, and I'll admit that the heel shim increase in ramp may just be perceived.

[XXX-er]

Did you test for this so how do you know ?

[mntlion]

Up and down.

1) "L" pads around the sides of the heels will help pinch the foot down

2) 5mm heel lift will help to support the heel in the taller possition

3) more padding over the instep to help to push the heel down and back into the heel pocket.


what is the shell fit like on this boot?

[zion zig zag]

1) "L" pads around the sides of the heels will help pinch the foot down

2) 5mm heel lift will help to support the heel in the taller possition

3) more padding over the instep to help to push the heel down and back into the heel pocket.


what is the shell fit like on this boot?

I'd have to look again but it seems like it was a finger and a half-ish. Definitely bigger than I fit resort boots but I have to have all day warmth and comfort in touring boots.

So are you saying all three of the above together? Or any of the three separately? In your opinion how much does a 5mm heel lift increase the ramp of the binding?

[mntlion]

I'd have to look again but it seems like it was a finger and a half-ish. Definitely bigger than I fit resort boots but I have to have all day warmth and comfort in touring boots.

So are you saying all three of the above together? Or any of the three separately? In your opinion how much does a 5mm heel lift increase the ramp of the binding?

what do you think will work better?

1) locking the heel in that taller possition = use heel lift

2) if you want the heel in the lower possition will it be better to pinch the heel with "L" pads or press it back with the instep pad

I dont know what you are feeling, I can just react to the info that you give me. I'm a mechanic, you are the driver.

[phallic-menace]

I added a 5 mm shim under my heels to take up to take up room and am very happy.
Think harder about what a shim does under your heel, your toes stay in the same place but your heel rises. This means more plantar flexion which typically means you're leaning forwards less in a non ski boot scenario.
Also keep in mind that the forward lean is dictated by the cuff.

[smooth operator]

I added a 5 mm shim under my heels to take up to take up room and am very happy.
Think harder about what a shim does under your heel, your toes stay in the same place but your heel rises. This means more plantar flexion which typically means you're leaning forwards less in a non ski boot scenario.
Also keep in mind that the forward lean is dictated by the cuff.

+1

[old goat]

I added a 5 mm shim under my heels to take up to take up room and am very happy.
Think harder about what a shim does under your heel, your toes stay in the same place but your heel rises. This means more plantar flexion which typically means you're leaning forwards less in a non ski boot scenario.
Also keep in mind that the forward lean is dictated by the cuff.

Yes and no. In my situation--intuition pw and booster strap around the liner--there was enough give in the system that the forward lean wasn't entirely determined by the cuff angle. And I used the heel wedges not only to help with heel lift but to counteract the extra padding up front with the PW which was giving me too upright a stance. Of course that wouldn't apply to the OP's setup.

Another way to look at it--by increasing plantar flexion a heel wedge increases the available range of motion of dorsiflexion of the ankle, making it easier to get forward, if that is the goal.

And I'm sure it is obvious that I'm not a bootfitter so I could be full of it about the forward lean, but the wedges helped the heel lift for sure.