Ski Repair/Tune Advice (Including Seattle Area Recs)

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 02:23 PM

I fucked up all my skis.

Last year I dislocated and broke my shoulder on my second day of the season. I was on vacation (back home) in Bozeman, MT. I had just purchased tuning equipment and had started messing around with tuning my own skis. They are all pretty new and have never had any shop work. We got home (me in a sling) and I wiped off the road grime and water from the trip and leaned the skis up in the garage. Well skis got neglected, and after a few months of rehab I got around to looking at them with the plan to touch them up and add storage wax for the offseason. The edges were all rusty as hell. Like bad heavy rust, not just light surface rust. So I went to work with files and stones trying to get them back in line. I was mostly successful but found that all 3 pair were bases high, and I wasn't able to get the base bevels cleaned up fully since the stones were hitting base. There is pitting from the rust that requires some material removal to eliminate it.

So now I assume I'm looking at needing a base grind to get everything flat and start fresh. What I'm wondering is if I should be looking at a shop for a stone grind or just getting something like a Ski Visions base flattener. If I do a shop should I just ask for a flat base and that's it, or have them flatten the base then do the edges? I'm no expert by any means, but I feel fairly confident I can get a good edge on them from flat. However, if I can find a shop that will do it right I might prefer to just get a full tune with all the skis to 1/2 (base/edge) and then use my equipment to maintain these edges. Thoughts?

Assuming I go the shop route, who can I trust to do this in the Seattle area? I'm actually in Bremerton and the only local shops are Kitsap Sports and REI - yikes. Should any shop be able to get me to bases flat? Tacoma (Sturtevant's) is a bit easier to get to, but if I have to I could so a Seattle shop (Pro Ski, EVO?).

Any help is appreciated!

**XXX-er** · 12-02-2016, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

I fucked up all my skis.

The edges were all rusty as hell. Like bad heavy rust, not just light surface rust. So I went to work with files and stones trying to get them back in line. I was mostly successful but found that all 3 pair were bases high, and I wasn't able to get the base bevels cleaned up fully since the stones were hitting base. There is pitting from the rust that requires some material removal to eliminate it.

So now I assume I'm looking at needing a base grind to get everything flat and start fresh. What I'm wondering is if I should be looking at a shop for a stone grind or just getting something like a Ski Visions base flattener.!

I would find someone with a stone grinder, what the m/c can do in a matter of minutes is amazing

**auvgeek** · 12-02-2016, 03:00 PM

I've heard good things about World Cup Service in Bellevue. I wasn't stoked on the quality of the tune last time I went to Pro Ski, but that was like 4 years ago.

Ski Visions is fine for minor stuff, but a pain if your skis are badly railed or base high.

**galibier_numero_un** · 12-02-2016, 05:03 PM

Is your long term plan to acquire a good set of tools and maintain your skis yourself? If so, then now might be a good time to start. As mentioned, the SkiVisions base flattener will take some work, if you have a lot of material to remove. I'm thinkin' you're looking at a SkiVisions flattener + an SVST base bevel guide for the job (+ an 8" mill bastard file).

If this (amount of work) is a problem, then maybe you're not so fond of logging shop time (in the long term) and paying for a base grind/bevel may be the way to go. The upside of DIY is that you can "pay" for a couple of tools with the cost that three stone grinds would run you.

... Thom

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Is your long term plan to acquire a good set of tools and maintain your skis yourself? If so, then now might be a good time to start. As mentioned, the SkiVisions base flattener will take some work, if you have a lot of material to remove. I'm thinkin' you're looking at a SkiVisions flattener + an SVST base bevel guide for the job (+ an 8" mill bastard file).

If this (amount of work) is a problem, then maybe you're not so fond of logging shop time (in the long term) and paying for a base grind/bevel may be the way to go. The upside of DIY is that you can "pay" for a couple of tools with the cost that three stone grinds would run you.

... Thom

I currently have a Beast base bevel guide (1*) and a SVST side bevel guide (2*) along with a set of diamond stones, file, ceramic stone, and waxing equipment. I was never planning to open a ski shop in my garage, just basic maintenance after so-so results from a local tune. After a little research I'm thinking I could use the SkiVisions flattener/structure tool (comes with medium stone and steel bar) to bring the bases flat with the inside of my base bevel, then touch up the base bevel and repeat until my edge is cleaned up. Skipping having 3 sets ground flat would pay for the tool, but I'm not sure how often I'd really need it with how little I usually get to ski.

Is there a file I can use that will cut the ptex base material as I bevel the ski edge base? If I can get the bevel fully cleaned up and set at 1* couldn't I then just get a stone grind to bring the base material even with inside of the base bevel? My file doesn't want to cut the base material from what I remember.

Should any shop be able to give me a 0* flat grind of the base without screwing it up?

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I've heard good things about World Cup Service in Bellevue. I wasn't stoked on the quality of the tune last time I went to Pro Ski, but that was like 4 years ago.

Ski Visions is fine for minor stuff, but a pain if your skis are badly railed or base high.

Oh I've heard good things about them too now that you mention it. 2-3hr round trip drive (twice) to get my skis there and back sucks though.

**ACH** · 12-02-2016, 06:03 PM

World Cup in Bellevue is very good, have gone there for tunes and repairs for a long time, highly recommend.

**XXX-er** · 12-02-2016, 06:06 PM

http://www.montana-international.com...chines/robots/

I got a stone grind on a montana saphir M/C, some otherwise useless shop rat just fed the skis in and they came out perfect ... its all done by puter

**XavierD** · 12-02-2016, 06:13 PM

Pretty much any shop should be able to get your bases flat and put a 1/1 on your edges.

If you want a good stone grind with polished edges you should be a little more picky.

Has Kitsap Sports really fallen so far as to not be trusted with a stone grind? They were a pretty good shop back in the early 2000s.

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by XavierD

Pretty much any shop should be able to get your bases flat and put a 1/1 on your edges.

If you want a good stone grind with polished edges you should be a little more picky.

Has Kitsap Sports really fallen so far as to not be trusted with a stone grind? They were a pretty good shop back in the early 2000s.

Maybe not. It's more my lack of knowledge in the process and no real history with them. That's why I'm asking. For all I knew any shop could be trusted with that (sounds like that might be the case). I had read on here in older threads that it's tough to find a shop to do a good base grind. Maybe the disconnect is "good." These are just everyday skis, not racing or anything special.

Would 1/1 or 1/2 be the general consensus for all around skis? I had planned to put everything at 1/2 for ease of upkeep (less to keep track of) but I suppose I could do 1/1. Skis are Moment Bibby Pro, Blizzard Cochise, and Volkl Kiku (wife's).

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

http://www.montana-international.com...chines/robots/

I got a stone grind on a montana saphir M/C, some otherwise useless shop rat just fed the skis in and they came out perfect ... its all done by puter

Thanks. I envisioned my local shop rat in the back taking my skis to a big belt sander by hand. Haha

**galibier_numero_un** · 12-02-2016, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

After a little research I'm thinking I could use the SkiVisions flattener/structure tool (comes with medium stone and steel bar) to bring the bases flat with the inside of my base bevel, then touch up the base bevel and repeat until my edge is cleaned up. Skipping having 3 sets ground flat would pay for the tool, but I'm not sure how often I'd really need it with how little I usually get to ski.

Is there a file I can use that will cut the ptex base material as I bevel the ski edge base?

I think what you're describing is the nature of these bevel guides. They're designed to cut only the edge (not removing P-tex). This protects you from removing too much edge material. Picture a bevel that continues into the first mm or two of P-tex, and in the process, removes a lot of edge.

So, if you want to take material off of the bevel (to clean up the rust), it would be two step operation: (1) take some material off of the base (flat file, SkiVisions, base grind, etc.), to where you remove just the slightest bit of the inside part of the edge (just a bit of rust removed near the P-tex), and (2) re-establish the bevel.

You probably stumbled on @Alpinord's site where he makes the distinction between the two SkiVisions tools: (http://www.slidewright.com/ski-and-snowboard/bases/). Actually, for base high, the flattener/structure tool will work fine. To perform the operation described above, you won't be taking too much edge material off, so it should work well - unless you're cleaning up a bad factory tune. Contact Terry (@alpinord) and he'll guide you through it.

As an aside, I use the blade (hardened steel bar) from this tool for removing excess P-tex after a patch. There are lots of ways to do this, but having the tool, I put it to use for this purpose. If your patch isn't well bonded, you might pull some of the P-tex out, but it's a good time to find out how well-bonded your repair is - whether you need to do a repeat/touch-up patch.

... Thom

**Mofro261** · 12-02-2016, 07:16 PM

I have a ski visions base flattener (bar and stones), but I really only use it for removing the excess ptex after base repairs. I have used it to flatten the base as well but to get it nice and even over the entire length of the base requires a lot of elbow grease. It's really money well spent to take them to a shop and have a base grind done to flatten, and have them set the base edge, put a structure on the base... and you are probably base high from over filing the base edge. It takes very few passes with a file to set the base edge and most home tuners tend to over do it. If in doubt, use a magic marker on the edge and stop filing when the ink is gone. Unless there is damage to the edge, I don't touch the base edge with anything more coarse than a 200 grit diamond file/stone once the edge angle is set.

Also don't use files again for removing rust. You want to start with a coarse (purple/brown) fibertex pad, this removes the rust without removing metal and taking the edge material away unnecessarily. If there is edge damage, after rust removal hit it with a 100 grit stone/ diamond file to remove case hardening. Your files, and skis, will thank you. A gummi stone would be a second choice for rust removal. Unless these are race skis just clean the rust and ignore the pitting, it'll have zero effect on performance.

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I think what you're describing is the nature of these bevel guides. They're designed to cut only the edge (not removing P-tex). This protects you from removing too much edge material. Picture a bevel that continues into the first mm or two of P-tex, and in the process, removes a lot of edge.

So, it you want to take material off of the bevel (to clean up the rust), it would be two step operation: (1) take some material off of the base (flat), to where you're removing a bit of the inside part of the edge (just a bit of rust removed), and (2) re-establish the bevel.

You probably stumbled on @Alpinord's site where he makes the distinction between the two SkiVisions tools: (http://www.slidewright.com/ski-and-snowboard/bases/). Actually, for base high, the flattener/structure tool will work fine. To perform the operation described above, you won't be taking too much edge material off, so it should work fine. Contact Terry (@alpinord) and he'll guide you through it.

As an aside, I use the blade (hardened steel bar) from this tool for removing excess P-tex after a patch. There are lots of ways to do this, but having the tool, I put it to use for this purpose. If your patch isn't well bonded, you might pull some of the P-tex out, but it's a good time to find out how well-bonded your repair is - whether you need to do a repeat/touch-up patch.

... Thom

Thanks. Seems like it would be handy down the road too. It's not terribly expensive either.

Originally Posted by Mofro261

I have a ski visions base flattener (bar and stones), but I really only use it for removing the excess ptex after base repairs. I have used it to flatten the base as well but to get it nice and even over the entire length of the base requires a lot of elbow grease. It's really money well spent to take them to a shop and have a base grind done to flatten, and have them set the base edge, put a structure on the base... and you are probably base high from over filing the base edge. It takes very few passes with a file to set the base edge and most home tuners tend to over do it. If in doubt, use a magic marker on the edge and stop filing when the ink is gone. Unless there is damage to the edge, I don't touch the base edge with anything more coarse than a 200 grit diamond file/stone once the edge angle is set.

Also don't use files again for removing rust. You want to start with a coarse (purple/brown) fibertex pad, this removes the rust without removing metal and taking the edge material away unnecessarily. If there is edge damage, after rust removal hit it with a 100 grit stone/ diamond file to remove case hardening. Your files, and skis, will thank you. A gummi stone would be a second choice for rust removal. Unless these are race skis just clean the rust and ignore the pitting, it'll have zero effect on performance.

Thanks for the tips. I started with a gummy, then a course diamond, and finally a file (not sure I even used the file on the base bevel - details foggy as it was earlier this spring and 3 sets of skis). I really don't think I removed much material, but I could be wrong. I had read to leave the base bevels alone, and that was my tuning plan until all the rust. I'll look in to the fibertex pad. I wanted to remove pitting mainly to remove what's left of the rust.

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 09:39 PM

Also if I remember right I never got full contact across the base bevel of the edge before contacting the base of the ski indicating the base was high but not caused by removing too much metal.

**XXX-er** · 12-02-2016, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

Thanks. I envisioned my local shop rat in the back taking my skis to a big belt sander by hand. Haha

"Useless shop rat " that may sound harsh BUT I leave them overnight but they forget to do my skis, tell me to come back in 45min and they will be done, so I come back 3hrs later quite drunk on comp beer so of course I ask to use the pisser

walk back into the shop where useless shoprat is loading my skis into the Montana Saphir machine, I laugh at him, he gets pissy

I go and wait in the front of the store, skis are done perfectly in like 10 min

with a 400,000 dollar stone grinder ... its that fast

**SeatownSlackey** · 12-02-2016, 10:24 PM

X3 for World Cup. If you want to save some coin they only charge $20 for a grind/structure and you can take care of your own edges.

**mtskibum16** · 12-02-2016, 10:33 PM

Should I ask what equipment my local shops have, or will any shop have the good stuff? I'm thinking Kitsap Sports or REI Silverdale. 10 and 20 minutes from my house rather than 1.5 hours.

**oftpiste** · 12-03-2016, 09:42 AM

Where do you typically ski? Look into the shop at your hill?

**MESH** · 12-03-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

Should I ask what equipment my local shops have, or will any shop have the good stuff? I'm thinking Kitsap Sports or REI Silverdale. 10 and 20 minutes from my house rather than 1.5 hours.

I live in the same area and I wouldn't recommend Kitsap Sports. I don't remember what the back story was but they've changed location multiple times and the quality of service keeps going down. The last stone grind I received from them was all wavy. REI Silverdale is fine or head out to Tacoma.

**bgrayvy** · 12-03-2016, 12:21 PM

FWIW, I've always been happy with the tuning/service crew at Mountains to Sound Outfitters in West Seattle. Good indy shop.

**mtskibum16** · 12-03-2016, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by oftpiste

Where do you typically ski? Look into the shop at your hill?

Usually either Crystal or White Pass but I jump around based on conditions and which buddy with a cabin is skiing that day.

I was hoping to get these done so they're ready to ski. I might not make it up before a trip to MT in December. good idea though.

Originally Posted by MESH

I live in the same area and I wouldn't recommend Kitsap Sports. I don't remember what the back story was but they've changed location multiple times and the quality of service keeps going down. The last stone grind I received from them was all wavy. REI Silverdale is fine or head out to Tacoma.

They're back in their original location in Bremerton after being in Silverdale for quite some time. Have you had stone grind at REI?

Originally Posted by bgrayvy

FWIW, I've always been happy with the tuning/service crew at Mountains to Sound Outfitters in West Seattle. Good indy shop.

I'll keep them in mind if I have to travel. That's easier than Bellevue.

**MESH** · 12-03-2016, 01:58 PM

Kitsap Sports should have stayed at their first Silverdale location. I haven't had a stone grind at REI but their staff seemed knowledgeable when I had some work done.

**mtskibum16** · 12-03-2016, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by MESH

Kitsap Sports should have stayed at their first Silverdale location. I haven't had a stone grind at REI but their staff seemed knowledgeable when I had some work done.

After reading up on the machines used most places, I'm also more confident that REI keeps up the maintenance and calibration of their equipment. I think I'll take them in for a tune (grind, edging, wax). Tough to be for $35. Maybe I'll drop off the wife's first for a trial run.

**wasatchback** · 12-03-2016, 03:23 PM

A base flattener is a complete waste of time. Good for removing p-Tex but that's about it. You may or may not need your bases ground. If it's just rust, use some fibertex to get the thick stuff off the use a course diamond stone (without your bevel guide) to get the rest. If there's some pitting who cares, it won't affect performance.

I seriously doubt your skis are base high, at least the Cochise if they've never been ground. Just because you don't get much purchase with the file and a base bevel guide doesn't mean much. They're most likely right around 1* or maybe .2* more.

It takes a lot of use with a diamond stone and an aggressive one at that to change the bevels with just a stone. You never really need to use a base or side bevel guide with a stone unless you're doing a lot of work. Just always finish with a fine stone to knock back any burr.

There is a huge difference between a good stone grind and what you'll get at the average shop. Just cause a place keeps their machine in decent shape doesn't mean they have any idea what they're doing. Seek out shops that specialize in race tunes or ones that have a nice new automated Montana machine. Those are somewhat monkey proof. Your average shop tech can press a few buttons and produce a decent grind with one of those machines.