Enve nipple corrosion

[GeezerSteve]

IME Al alloy nipples have more tendency to self-lock (via corrosion) on stainless steel spokes but OTOH are more likely to seize via corrosion, so I use linseed oil for Al alloy nipples. Brass nipples are more likely to loosen without spoke prep. Linseed oil works okay as a weak locking fluid for brass nipples but these days I usually prep brass nipples with Locktite 222 (low strength) which provides a better lock than linseed oil. IME it's damn near impossible to predict whether unprepped nipples might loosen. Years ago I built hundreds of wheels with no prep or oil on the threads (but oiled the rim nipple sockets) and they held up fine for years, did not corrode and did not loosen, but every now and then the entire wheel would loosen. My theory was that harmonic resonance might have been a contributor.

[dunfree]

Linseed Oil? Like BLO from the hardware store with some dryers, or flaxseed oil from the hippy store? Range in locking there.

[jm2e]

Two pages in and nobody has mentioned Musson?
Seriously, download Musson's book for a few bucks. Follow his simple instructions. My wife built a set of wheels before I did because I had a busted collarbone. They're still rolling and she charges pretty hard.
I built Musson's stand, and it cost about $20 bucks.
He recommends motor oil. Because it's basic and cheap.

[jono]

Linseed Oil? Like BLO from the hardware store with some dryers, or flaxseed oil from the hippy store? Range in locking there.

Bought mine at the hardware store IMS. I'd put the locking value just north of Loctite 242 in this case, but yeah, that would vary. And I might have used a lot.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily recommending linseed oil with carbon rims. Galvanic corrosion wasn't such a concern between aluminum rims, brass nipples and stainless spokes. It's always a possibility, particularly in high humidity, wet riding, salt air etc. but with carbon next to aluminum it has to be managed. With a little care the epoxy usually provides electrical separation for things like inserts, but once you have a demonstrated problem you obviously need more. Loctite doesn't seem to publish dielectric constants, but linseed oil is ~3 or so and motor oil looks to be 2.2. 3 is better than nothing; would be nice to know what spoke prep is, but of course it matters most between the nipples and the carbon, and material compatibility would be more important there.

[Canada1]

Did you have problems with them holding tight?

[Canada1]

I've built about 5 wheels with enve rims/nipples and didn't use any prep at all, mostly because they told me not to. I can say from experience you certainly don't need it. The nipples don't bind up like when pressed against an aluminum rim.

Did you have problems with them holding tight?

[kidwoo]

Did you have problems with them holding tight?

Not at all.

Probably the least touched wheels after the build I've ever owned. I throw them in my truing stand every once in a while but it's usually a waste of time.

[detrusor]

It's due to the incredible stiffness of the rim. The spikes don't go through the tension/detension cycle as much. In fact even w a broken spoke they are so stiff they don't come out of true as much.

I would use some type of prep/linseed on the nips to prevent corrosion on the threads though. Especially if you ride in the weather.

[detrusor]

Oh, I s cond linseed oil as a spoke prep. Once the wheel is built it sets up a bit and prevents the nipple from loosening but can still be easily trued. Spoke prep is similar but not as long lasting. Loctite is useless once dry and you turn the nipple. Grease or oil won't act to hold the nipple in place. On soft rims the wheels will want to detension.

In my past life I literally built 10,000 wheels and played w all this stuff.

[GeezerSteve]

I've built only est. 3,000+ wheels, so you win the dick waving contest. Disagree re the right spec Locktite (222) if applied to the spoke and allowed to dry before building the wheel (same technique as spoke prep). FTR most spoke prep (e.g., Wheelsmith) is Locktite 222 or rough equivalent but sold for $$$$$. Linseed oil is fine but IME Locktite 222 applied as described above holds better after subsequent truing than linseed oil. n = I have built 500+ wheels with each.

[gravitylover]

I don't envy anybody with nipple corrosion

[kidwoo]

It's due to the incredible stiffness of the rim.

It's also due to the higher tension used on them that keeps the nipple secure. Given how well the Enve wheels I've build have held up, I'd say it's kind of pointless to use linseed oil. If anything it's going to allow them to loosen up more. It's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

[GeezerSteve]

. . . I'd say it's kind of pointless to use linseed oil. If anything it's going to allow them to loosen up more.

Theory? Linseed oil gets gummy after it cures, which is why it's commonly used as a threadlock compound.

It's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Which problem? Loose nipples? There's another problem: SS spokes + Al alloy nipples invites corrosion, although it might not manifest for a couple years. How long ago did you build those wheels?

[Peruvian]

I don't envy anybody with nipple corrosion

Beat me to it, but linseed oil does seem like it might help with the cracking from any chafing.

[sethschmautz]

I don't envy anybody with nipple corrosion

This made me laugh. I give it an A- because you didn't spell envy like enve.

[kidwoo]

Theory? Linseed oil gets gummy after it cures, which is why it's commonly used as a threadlock compound.

Which problem? Loose nipples? There's another problem: SS spokes + Al alloy nipples invites corrosion, although it might not manifest for a couple years. How long ago did you build those wheels?

Binding while building and/or truing later and serving as a lube when building.....the reasons for prepping threads.

I've built wheels for the last 25 years and probably 95% of my own in that time, trust me, I prep spokes too and always have. You don't need it with these.

And by these I mean enve rims with enve's newer style BRASS nipples. Have you even built a wheel with those? I'm not trying to convince anyone prepping stainless spokes with aluminum nipples is a bad idea, trust me. That's not what we're talking about here.

[GeezerSteve]

I've built est. 3,000 wheels with brass nipples although none with Enve's brass nipples. What makes them different such that linseed oil or spoke prep is a bad idea?

Binding while building and/or truing later and serving as a lube when building.....the reasons for prepping threads.

You missed two: (1) retention; and (2) protecting threads from the elements

[XXX-er]

IME from riding lifts with mtb's I want some spoke retention cuz after 10 runs all the spokes were loose and I spent 1/2 or 3/4 of an hr tightening spokes & checking bolts

SO a lot of people say they never touch their wheels ?

SO how do they know if the spokes are tight or not ?

[kidwoo]

IME from riding lifts with mtb's I want some spoke retention cuz after 10 runs all the spokes were loose and I spent 1/2 or 3/4 of an hr tightening spokes & checking bolts

SO a lot of people say they never touch their wheels ?

SO how do they know if the spokes are tight or not ?

I throw pennies at the spokes. When done correctly, I can get Handel's Messiah out of them. If the wind section part sounds off, I throw them in the truing stand.





Dear steve: go build a set first. Then let's talk.

https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...Thread-Locker-

[XXX-er]

Hey that sounds like a great idea!

but we don't have pennies up here

[kidwoo]

Loonies seem a little aggressive eh?


I know what you mean, I definitely know guys that say they never touch their wheels and then when you check half the spokes are wobbling around. These are different though. Really. After the initial spoke stretch, there's very little that changes. It's one of the things that keeps me riding them. But read any review of enve's mtb stuff. There's griping about accessing the nipples underneath the rim strip but honestly, you don't need to tend to these things nearly as often as you would a traditional aluminum rim. Tight wheels stay tight in general but these things are fairly hands off after a certain point. I wasted a lot of time doubting that the first two years I ran them. To further answer your question, I also have a tensionometer I run around them if I don't trust my fingers. They tell you build these things up with about the same tension I put on my straight gage spoked dh wheels. I'd never used one to build wheels regularly but I bought it for these because I was so paranoid of overtensioning a way overpriced piece of plastic.

[XXX-er]

Yeah so they are getting rid of the loonies as well eh ?

The newfies keep busting their teeth tryin to get the chocolate out

edit: Yeah junior put a set of these in a wider size on his nomad, he bought em as a wheelset but he hasn't mentioned anything about maintenance and he is a stickler for his gear being perfect

[detrusor]

Haven't built w enve brass nipples. How are they any different than dt brass nipples for instance?

I understand the nipple not binding against the carbon rim but what prevents the mechanical binding of the threads?

[kidwoo]

Haven't built w enve brass nipples. How are they any different than dt brass nipples for instance?

I understand the nipple not binding against the carbon rim but what prevents the mechanical binding of the threads?

Black paint

Ever notice you never see an enve rim and silver spokes in the same room? Coincidence?

The nipple design is slightly different beyond the obvious inverted bit. The wrench grabs around most of the threaded bit on the inside. You know how when you strip a brass (or especially an alloy) spoke, the wrench flats will crack? It's harder to do with these. There's a little biding for sure and you'll get some screeching detensioning a used wheel. It's just not as bad and you can still spin the thing without killing the nipple as easily.

[sethschmautz]

Update. Finally got around to replacing nipples on front wheel last night. Got 25 of the 32 nipples swapped. The corrosion was significant, However, there are several of these suckers that have corroded and broken badly enough that I can't turn them with the wrench, but they are still gripping the spoke. Anybody have any ideas on how to get those out without sacrificing the spoke?

Seth