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  1. #1
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    Rear Ended - Insurance Time

    Spray me down with your wisdom, insights, criticisms and jackassery.

    Hit in stop and do highway traffic yesterday. Rack took most of the impact and car is a little dented and scratched.
    Car, trailer hitch and rack are straight forward claims and will all be fixed/replaced. Trying to figure out what to do about the bike.

    Bike is basically fine. Crazy, the pedal and fork seem to have pushed up against the bumper and trunk hard enough to dent the shit out of them. But they don't show as much damage themselves. If the accident was MY fault, I'd just ride it like it is.
    But it's NOT my fault, and the other guy's insurance is on this.
    And I'm a little pissed that my almost new Float 36 is scratched up.
    And I'm a little paranoid that problems will surface down the road and I'll be left wishing I'd asked for more.
    Thoughts:
    Fork. Scratched lowers on both sides (from the car hitting it and from it hitting the trunk). Otherwise seems to be fine. Cycles without any stiction. No oil leaking. Worried that the sanction/crown interface is compromised, or the brace was bent a degree or so and that I'll realize something ain't right when there's a problem in a few months.

    Cranks. Beat up from regular riding. But, they were likely loaded really hard when the pedal pushed against the bumper. They're carbon, so they could be damaged and I wouldn't know until they explode on me in the wilderness some day.

    Wheels. Look unharmed. Spins nice and true. Worried that the carbon rim has hidden damage and will explode like the rear one did a month ago. Worried that the hub got tweaked just a little and I'll start noticing premature bearing wear, or when I do pull the bearings I'll find a deformed hub shell.

    What do the mags think I should do? How do you get a shop to recommend replacing something that passes visual inspection?
    However many are in a shit ton.

  2. #2
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    der poopenhausen?

  3. #3
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    make your list and specify every goddam thing, even soft goods like a tool bag or attached accessories like light brackets, etc

    locate all the gouges and scratches, especially on plastic bits that can explode in the future & photograph them
    have someone professional (carbon fiber repair shop) look at the remains and assess the repairs list

  4. #4
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    Even though there is not any clearly catastrophic damage I think you'd be 100% in the right to push hard for his insurance to replace the bike. Worst thing that can happen is they tell you to pound sand. Maybe your LBS can write you an "expert opinion" or something that any bike that has been hit by a several thousand pound vehicle should be considered unsafe to ride. Barring that, add up every single component that has been damaged in the slightest and get a replacement cost estimate from your LBS at full MSRP and forward to his insurance company.

  5. #5
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    If the rack is damaged, it's not a stretch to say the bike took a hit. Scratch that wasn't there before is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Unless the insurance company knows about loading and unloading lateral forces on carbon fiber, they're gonna fucking pay for a new bike. Be firm.

  6. #6
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    It's totaled. I will give you $150 for it.

  7. #7
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    Advice #1: Don't post your account of things on the internet. Your statements are admissible by the defense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Even though there is not any clearly catastrophic damage I think you'd be 100% in the right to push hard for his insurance to replace the bike. Worst thing that can happen is they tell you to pound sand. Maybe your LBS can write you an "expert opinion" or something that any bike that has been hit by a several thousand pound vehicle should be considered unsafe to ride. Barring that, add up every single component that has been damaged in the slightest and get a replacement cost estimate from your LBS at full MSRP and forward to his insurance company.
    Some friends and I got rear ended a few years ago with three bikes over the tailgate. Front wheels all got crushed. There was no obvious damage to our front forks and they seemed to function normally, but the LBS recommended replacement because if internals were knocked out of alignment even very slightly it could cause premature demise of the fork. Same with our front hubs. He wrote up a recommendation for full replacement of front wheel including new hub and new fork. Insurance co didn't even blink and sent us each checks for full MSRP. Insurance company also gave me $500 for a stiff neck, which was the most they would give without a doctors opinion. It was fine after a few days so there was nothing a doctor would have been able to find. I ended up running the fork for another couple years til the stanchions got worn by the bushings. That probably had more to do with lack of maintenance than the crash.

    I would ask for replacement of complete bike to begin with. At minimum they should replace all the parts that could have been stressed in the crash by contact with rack or car - wheels, fork, pedals, carbon cranks, BB. Likely these parts are fine but you just don't know if the useful life is compromised or if a serious failure will happen unexpectedly down the road. A few thousand dollars is a small price for the insurance company to pay to ensure you are not coming back to them months from now with a claim for serious injuries that result from exploding carbon cranks or wheels you say were damaged in the car crash.

  9. #9
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    The adjuster will need an opinion on the condition of the bike. The advice above about having a LBS write up an assessment is important.

    As to the value, is there any chance you still have the receipt or the shop where you bought it has the purchase agreement? Just like a car, if it's repairable, you will get the value of the repair. If it's economically unfeasable to repair it you will be the actual cash value of the bike. This is NOT replacement cost, but is either the current price of a similar bike of similar age and condition or the new value less depreciation. Keep in mind that depreciation on a bike is likely 5 years, so this could be an issue if the claims adjuster tries to argue this.

    Get the write up from the shop, send it to them, and let us know what they offer.

    p.s.: evdog has no idea what he's talking about.

  10. #10
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    Nope, it's replacement. I have yet to come across an insurance claim that treated bikes like cars. There is not an equivalent "used" market so you get to replace w the similar model currently in the stores. Get the documentation from the LBS, quotes / print outs for the current similar model and push for a new bikey. This isn't swapping out a bumper (which would cost as much as a pretty sweet carbon ride).

  11. #11
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    Thanks all around for the advise.
    Going to see my regular mechanic sometime after the weekend. Will see what he thinks about it all, since it'll be his name on the paper that says what the recommendations are. I'll express my concerns about hidden damage and how I'll sleep better with a new fork and wheels, etc.
    However many are in a shit ton.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Nope, it's replacement. I have yet to come across an insurance claim that treated bikes like cars. There is not an equivalent "used" market so you get to replace w the similar model currently in the stores. Get the documentation from the LBS, quotes / print outs for the current similar model and push for a new bikey. This isn't swapping out a bumper (which would cost as much as a pretty sweet carbon ride).
    My experience with renter's insurance is that they add depreciation to the bike, but much less than what it would be in the real world. Different kind of insurance, and different situation, though. YMMV.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  13. #13
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    No, it's not a car. It's a piece of property that deprecates. I was just using the analogy as most folks are more familiar with that side of insurance.

  14. #14
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    Could be worse....






  15. #15
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    What do you think that the manufacturers of any of the parts on the bike (even those that don't look damaged), or the frame itself really, would say if you asked them to stand behind the product after this incident? Will the insurance company stand behind a repaired bike? How much will it cost to get the fork inspected by someone with enough technical know-how to really determine if its OK? New bike.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    The adjuster will need an opinion on the condition of the bike. The advice above about having a LBS write up an assessment is important.

    As to the value, is there any chance you still have the receipt or the shop where you bought it has the purchase agreement? Just like a car, if it's repairable, you will get the value of the repair. If it's economically unfeasable to repair it you will be the actual cash value of the bike. This is NOT replacement cost, but is either the current price of a similar bike of similar age and condition or the new value less depreciation. Keep in mind that depreciation on a bike is likely 5 years, so this could be an issue if the claims adjuster tries to argue this.

    Get the write up from the shop, send it to them, and let us know what they offer.

    p.s.: evdog has no idea what he's talking about.
    With all due respect, evdog is speaking from experience and he had his shit replaced at full value. My own insurance company has told me over and over again through the years that my shit is insured at full replacement value. Most people in here have dealt with their insurance companies over the years and found that they just don't give a fuck about depreciating personal items other than cars. I'm sure it's different with industrial machinery and livestock, but again, with all due respect, unless you work for an insurance company or you have a personal anecdote to share, YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
    For what it's worth, MY insurance company is dealing with Everything. Getting the car fixed, getting quotes on what bike/rack parts need to be replaced, car rental, etc. Then they are going to shove that bill up the other insurance companies ass. That's pretty much what my guy told me, other than the "shove" part and the "ass" part.
    However many are in a shit ton.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourMomJustCalled View Post
    Could be worse....
    DAMN! That's brutal.
    My first thought was, "could be worse.......... I could be riding a steel hard tail!"
    Really, that kind of damage would be a lot easier. New bike. No ifs ands or buts about it. Then scavenge the carcass for parts, fork, dropper, cranks, brakes, front wheel, etc.
    However many are in a shit ton.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    W...but again, with all due respect, unless you work for an insurance company or you have a personal anecdote to share, YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
    I'm glad your carrier is handling it. I assume it's your HO insurance and not your auto insurance as these items were not permanently installed on your car. Understand that you will have 2 deductibles as a result. Your carrier will likely subrogate for both but you will be out that money for a period of time until collection begins. It also sounds like your HO policy sounds like it has a RC clause.

    BTW I have 20+ years experience as a liability claim adjuster.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    DAMN! That's brutal.
    My first thought was, "could be worse.......... I could be riding a steel hard tail!"
    Really, that kind of damage would be a lot easier. New bike. No ifs ands or buts about it. Then scavenge the carcass for parts, fork, dropper, cranks, brakes, front wheel, etc.
    Wait, you get a new bike and you also get to scavenge the totaled bike for spare parts?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I'm glad your carrier is handling it. I assume it's your HO insurance and not your auto insurance as these items were not permanently installed on your car. Understand that you will have 2 deductibles as a result. Your carrier will likely subrogate for both but you will be out that money for a period of time until collection begins. It also sounds like your HO policy sounds like it has a RC clause.

    BTW I have 20+ years experience as a liability claim adjuster.
    Please tell us which company you work for because either it's the shittiest insurance in the country or you are the worst fucking adjuster ever. I've had various friends go through HO, renters, and car insurance paths and all got full replacement and dealt with none of the bullshit you are putting your customers through.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I'm glad your carrier is handling it. I assume it's your HO insurance and not your auto insurance as these items were not permanently installed on your car. Understand that you will have 2 deductibles as a result. Your carrier will likely subrogate for both but you will be out that money for a period of time until collection begins. It also sounds like your HO policy sounds like it has a RC clause.

    BTW I have 20+ years experience as a liability claim adjuster.
    I just get the feeling you're coming at this from a completely different perspective than just about everyone else in here. My car was hit by someone else. I have fantastic car and homeowners insurance, but all they're doing is taking care of managing this for me. Then the other guys insurance is going to actually pay for EVERYTHING because it was clearly his fault. I'm not paying a deductible for any of it. It sounds like the great favor my insurance company is doing is protecting me from the other guys "Liability Claim Adjuster" who might be just like you, trying to nickel and dime me out of as much compensation as possible. I'll never talk to that guy, because my insurance company is awesome. I don't know if they even get any compensation for the effort they're putting into it, other than me sticking with them for another 30 years. Which goes without saying.
    However many are in a shit ton.

  22. #22
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    I'd like to hear how this ultimately turns out.

  23. #23
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    I would too, especially with an adjuster in the house.

    Fucking insurance adjusters. You guys are almost as bad as lawyers.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I'd like to hear how this ultimately turns out.
    yeah me too

    the op is making this sound like he's coming out of this a winner, doesn't work like that at all, I'd like to know if Jm2e is talking with his salesman or an adjuster? The salesman is going to tell you everything you want to hear and rub your back, the adjuster is going to tell you the truth

    not paying a deductible? explain to me how that is going to work? the only time I didn't pay a deductible is when sent out an intent to sue letter, so someone else payed that instead of getting into a legal tussle

    I deal with insurance companies alot, insurance is nothing but a scam, told statefarm to go stick it a month ago, because they like to pay pennies on the dollar, I gotta eat and ski, but they don't care

  25. #25
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    A friend of mine recently had his bike stolen off his car, lock on hitch rack was cut. It was 11 months old, custom build. Insurance took 50% depreciation.

    Definitely a very open ended situation, I've heard of things going this way or no questions asked instant MSRP value cash.

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