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  1. #1
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    MTB pedal start fire?

    I'm guessing the Inyo NF FB page got hacked, because this seems very unlikely.
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  2. #2
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    That sounds like the sort of thing a toilet paper burner says when it's clear he started the fire. Or maybe this is a really small argument for all-aluminum pedals?

  3. #3
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    yeah, I was think the same or someone smoking.

    I didn't think aluminum would spark, but I guess the spikes on flats are likely steel, as are the clip in part of clipless.

    The inciweb site didn't have any new info.

  4. #4
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    I've seen sparks come off pedals riding at night. I wonder if brakes would be more likely to do it- you could have a hot piece of pad material get spit out maybe?

  5. #5
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    I surprised that they're so confident in their assessment of the cause. I mean, I guess it's possible, but it seems fairly implausible.

    More on the story: http://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/news...-forest-47949/

  6. #6
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    I would think anyone who rides would be skeptical that the marks on the rock or the metal lying next to it would have come from a single event, let alone that that single event would have been at the time of ignition. A rock that attracts strikes is covered in that sort of evidence.

  7. #7
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    I see no reason to doubt them after reading the bike radar article. Especially from my work desk, hundreds of miles away.

  8. #8
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    I don't doubt what they found, but the article backs up toast's surprise at their certainty and I agree. Can't rule it out, obviously.

  9. #9
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    I can't wait for the addendum in NFPA 921. Ballsy origin and cause statement.

  10. #10
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    There was conclusive evidence. Done. Closed. Pedal strike. Incredible.

    i assume that means it was determined the fire started inches away from a trail frequented by mtn bikers? All you professional (or spare time) fire investigators, what would such conclusive evidence look like?

    I'm surprised the whole north shore of North Van did not go up in flames last year when all the trails remained open through our greatest long term drought in recorded history.

  11. #11
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    To be fair Lower Rock Creek Trail is:
    - Rocky - Classic bishop area mix of granite and volcanic rock
    - Dry - High desert vegetation in drought
    - Fast - the top half at least.
    - Popular - a shuttle ride that a lot of people hit it on their way to or from Mammoth.

    If this is going to happen anywhere, it would be there....
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  12. #12
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    I would like to see how they came to this conclusiveness.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  13. #13
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    I actually am a professional fire investigator and it's painfully obvious that a FS investigator has no worry or concern of going to court over their determination. When I write or review an origin and cause report, the number one thought in my mind is being cross examined by a determined defense attorney. And a decent attorney would absolutely tear that shit apart.

    At best, the report could read "it is the opinion of this investigator that the fire was accidental, and caused by a pedal strike on a rock. This determination is made based on the fact that no other sources of ignition existed in the area of origin." Which 1. would be really hard to prove that there were no other sources of ignition in the area of origin (big open area with multiple people in it, prove to me one didn't spark a lighter), and 2. the "area of origin" would have to be narrowed to a "point of origin," which is damn near impossible in a brush fire.

    I could go on for days, but I'm going to go test their hypothesis by riding rocky sections of trail through dry grass.

  14. #14
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    Had a hard pedal strike today, if a fire starts up on blue mtn in the next couple of days i guess you can blame me.

  15. #15
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    Interesting how this came out just prior to the comment period closing down for the forest management plan which has recommendations for more wilderness in the Inyo, Sequoia and Sierra National Forests.

    http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fs.../?project=3375

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Sizzler View Post

    I'm surprised the whole north shore of North Van did not go up in flames last year when all the trails remained open through our greatest long term drought in recorded history.
    Oh, a drought in Vancouver? Did you only get 15" of rain that summer?

    You can't compare BC rainforest dry to high desert CA dry.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Interesting how this came out just prior to the comment period closing down for the forest management plan which has recommendations for more wilderness in the Inyo, Sequoia and Sierra National Forests.
    Bingo. Anti-bikers cleverly turning a hiker's cigarette ashing into political ammunition.

  18. #18
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    I went for a ride at Blue mtn the other day, too, and I don't think I started any fires.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  19. #19
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    I just rode this trail on Friday (before seeing this thread). The burned area is on the west side of the road in the middle section, before the trail drops into the canyon. The trail isn't actually very rocky or particularly technical there - it's hard to imagine many pedal strikes even if people are trying to Strava it or whatever. If pedal strike fires were really a thing I'd expect many other areas to go up before this one (say, Annadel or Santa Teresa in the Bay Area).

  20. #20
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    I might have been willing to believe an overheated brake rotor which is still beyond remote... but a pedal strike? Someone smoking or toking is infinitely more likely!
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #21
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    A statement from Inyo National Forest:

    "There has been a lot of hoopla on the interwebz over this press release intended to heighten public awareness about current fire danger. Everything from absolute denial that a pedal striking a rock could spark a fire, to conspiracy theory that this was made up by the Forest Service to ban mountain bikes from trails. That saddens this moderator who also happens to be trained in fire investigations. Not only is it possible for a pedal strike to create a spark that could start a fire under the right fuel moisture and weather conditions like those that existed on the day the Rock Creek fire started, but this actually occurred in similar cheat grass fuels in Reno several years ago and was witnessed by this same moderator who was riding with the group. That happened to be a SPD pedal which is steel and capable of creating a spark against certain rock types. We talked with our friends down on the Inyo National Forest and not only was this a proper cause and origin investigation, but they had no other motive than to educate the public to be careful on hot and dry days. This was not intended to single out MTB'ers. Nearly all recreational users have been responsible for starting accidental wildfires at some point; campers, hunters, jeepers, hikers, backpackers, target shooters, etc. It is our hope that riders and all other users exercise caution when choosing to recreate on trails with light flashy fuels on hot and dry days so it's an incident that's not repeated. "

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Toad View Post
    A statement from Inyo National Forest:

    "There has been a lot of hoopla on the interwebz over this press release intended to heighten public awareness about current fire danger. Everything from absolute denial that a pedal striking a rock could spark a fire, to conspiracy theory that this was made up by the Forest Service to ban mountain bikes from trails. That saddens this moderator who also happens to be trained in fire investigations. Not only is it possible for a pedal strike to create a spark that could start a fire under the right fuel moisture and weather conditions like those that existed on the day the Rock Creek fire started, but this actually occurred in similar cheat grass fuels in Reno several years ago and was witnessed by this same moderator who was riding with the group. That happened to be a SPD pedal which is steel and capable of creating a spark against certain rock types. We talked with our friends down on the Inyo National Forest and not only was this a proper cause and origin investigation, but they had no other motive than to educate the public to be careful on hot and dry days. This was not intended to single out MTB'ers. Nearly all recreational users have been responsible for starting accidental wildfires at some point; campers, hunters, jeepers, hikers, backpackers, target shooters, etc. It is our hope that riders and all other users exercise caution when choosing to recreate on trails with light flashy fuels on hot and dry days so it's an incident that's not repeated. "
    What an idiot. So a pedal causing a spark is possible, and he's seen it happen, so that is solid evidence? I'd like to read the actual "proper" origin and cause report.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    What an idiot. So a pedal causing a spark is possible, and he's seen it happen, so that is solid evidence? I'd like to read the actual "proper" origin and cause report.
    I don't think the facebook moderator who wrote that did the investigation, or said it's solid evidence. He just said he's seen it happen in another place, and trusts his friends who did the report, and is a facebook moderator. That's how I read his post.

    I still don't get all the armchair quarterbacking when no one knows any specific details.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    I still don't get all the armchair quarterbacking when no one knows any specific details.
    I'd venture a guess that the armchair quarterbacking comes from the fact that, with absolute certainty, they've presented an extremely unlikely source as the cause.

    Maybe a pedal strike did cause it, but short of a video actually depicting the event, I can't fathom what kind of evidence they could have found that would lead to the absolute conclusion that a pedal strike was the cause. I also don't think they realize that it actually matters; there's no room for poorly supported conclusions when the anti-bike crowd will jump on any little excuse to get bikes banned in the future. Especially in California, which is apparently the birth place of self-righteous bike hating douche bags.

  25. #25
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    When I was a kid, there was a very major (Hundred thousand plus acres) forest fire in my hometown of Los Alamos. The investigators concluded it was a motorcycle without a spark arrestor riding past a slash pile. This was based on tracks past the slash pile. The same slash pile was being worked on that day by forest service employees, who were smokers, and did not have spark arrestors on their saw. None of that was ever advanced by the press release people and if you ask the cause of that fire to this day the answer will be motorcycle. I'll never forget when the investigator was asked those questions at a briefing and answered honestly, and that none of it appeared in the paper. My first exposure to cover up. So yah, the investigator's have been known to diagnose stuff like this to advance an agenda.
    Last edited by Canada1; 08-31-2016 at 11:51 AM.

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