Mid-sized Trucks (2016-17)

[Hugh Jaynus]

I can also confirm with stock tires the 2016 TRD Off Road does 18/20, the TRD Sport does even better due to a lower clearance front bumper design.

[AKbruin]

Is it correct to assume that the TRD Pro is overkill for a daily driver truck that only goes offroad maybe a dozen times a year?

[TAFKALVS]

Is it correct to assume that the TRD Pro is overkill for a daily driver truck that only goes offroad maybe a dozen times a year?

Yes but you need it.

[El Chupacabra]

Or just go for the Ford Raptor.


Or a Gelandewagen 6x6.


Or a Rally Fighter.

[XXX-er]

What mpg does a diesel need to get to be cheaper than the same truck on gas?
BCmH is In the government them ologists do all their running around for the bush in lightly loaded PUs and they don't use any big deisels, they have even bought some Tacoma's

I have a test loop close to town where I put a truck into a 180 sweeping turn on a dirt road full of ruts which shows me real quick how they all handle

Pretty hard to beat the Tacoma handling, driven a lot of them on dirt doing shuttles, I will probably buy one next

[AKbruin]

Yes but you need it.

No snark: I have no idea how to interpret your comment.

What mpg does a diesel need to get to be cheaper than the same truck on gas? BCH is In government they do all their running around in lightly loaded redPUs and they don't use any big deisels they have even bought some Tacoma's

Below is my analysis, which very well may be flawed. But my conclusion is that, at least for the Chevy Colorado, the $4,000 diesel option pays for itself after about 100,000 miles and then, from that point, saves a fair amount with its better MPG. Assuming maintenance costs were the same (a big assumption), the diesel Colorado at about $40k is a better value than the v6 Tacoma at $36k.

FWIW, here's my (probably flawed) math on the value of a diesel.

Assumptions: I could average 26 mpg in the diesel Colorado (rated 20/29) vs. 19 mpg in a Tacoma (rated 17/20). Diesel is currently cheaper than basic unleaded but has been more expensive in the past. I can't predict what the future holds, so I assume that diesel and basic unleaded will cost the same on average. I'm assuming gas will average about $3.00/gal over the next five years.

Over 100,000 miles, I would need 5,263 gallons of gas to fuel the Tacoma and 3,846 gallons to fuel the diesel Colorado. The difference is 1,417 gallons, which at $3/gal would come out to $4,250. So, assuming maintenance costs on the diesel aren't extreme, the diesel engine would pay for itself in about the first 100,000 and be a better value over 200,000 miles.

[Peruvian]

My colorado was $32.5k so that's a big price difference between the diesel and the Taco.

BTW - with the second tank of gas I'm averaging 22.5 mpg so far based on the computer.

[AKbruin]

My colorado was $32.5k so that's a big price difference between the diesel and the Taco.

BTW - with the second tank of gas I'm averaging 22.5 mpg so far based on the computer.

To be clear, I think my $36k estimate for the Taco is based on the double-cab long bed with mid-level trim. As I recall, the MSRP of the Colorado and Tacoma, as I had configured them, as pretty similar. That said, from what I've read, Tacos sell for pretty close to MSRP, whereas one can probably knock the MSRP on a Colorado down a little.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Is it correct to assume that the TRD Pro is overkill for a daily driver truck that only goes offroad maybe a dozen times a year?

I think it's correct to assume that any pickup is overkill for a daily driver unless you need it for work.

[BCMtnHound]

What mpg does a diesel need to get to be cheaper than the same truck on gas?
BCmH is In the government them ologists do all their running around for the bush in lightly loaded PUs and they don't use any big deisels, they have even bought some Tacoma's

I have a test loop close to town where I put a truck into a 180 sweeping turn on a dirt road full of ruts which shows me real quick how they all handle

Pretty hard to beat the Tacoma handling, driven a lot of them on dirt doing shuttles, I will probably buy one next

Ahem. 2 diesels - a 2tonne ford 2007/8 with flat deck, mostly for quads and engineering/culvert trailer, & a 1tonne Ford crewcab usually with a sled deck. Also 2 2016 Tacoma crewcabs with caps, the 3 1/2tonnes fords, 3 3/4tonne (2 fords and a chev), and one more Dodge 1tonne gasser extracab. The twig pigs and wildfire guys have the 1/2tonne chev and dodges. And there's a Subaru Legacy for the city runs. Most less than 3 yrs old. Mostly autos; don't spend enough time memorizing the engine configs. The 1/2tonne Chevys and the 3/4tonne Fords are my preferred choice for light duty on the bush roads. Regular maintenance but most folks drive em like they stole em.

[AKbruin]

I think it's correct to assume that any pickup is overkill for a daily driver unless you need it for work.

Why? It'd mostly be a daily driver for a deep-snow commute, but it'd also be used to offroad for certain ski, bike, and camping trips, sometimes with my 4-person/1-dog family in tow. I'd also, ideally, like the option of occasionally sleeping in it at the trailhead. My other options would seem to be an SUV or a Subaru, and for reasons I won't go into here, I don't want to give Subaru any more of my money. So, really, it's between a pickup or an SUV, and I'm not sure an SUV is categorically better for my purposes.

(Tangent: I have sometimes daydreamed about picking up a Focus RS. But I think a truck or SUV would be much more practical and there'd be a number of days a year when I'd have to wait for my street to be plowed before I could get into or out of my driveway with a Focus RS.)

[TAFKALVS]

Akbruin if you want a locker probably could have a 4wd shop install one pretty cheaply. You don't need a locker until you really need one. I'd price out having a locker installed vs. the costs of all the required packages that you have to buy to get the trd.

When you say off road is this like a rough road or like seriously off road like driving up a dry riverbed or deep snow?

[AKbruin]

In terms of offroading, I'd want something a level above what your average Subaru is capable of. I think this is mainly a clearance issue, but feel free to correct me as I know nothing of locking and differentials, etc. I've had to drive through snow drifts and over the occasional downed tree and rock features that would scrape the bottom of a Subaru. In terms of snow, the wife's Forester has generally been fine getting through our street in deeper snow before the plow comes. In general, my TRD 2001 Tundra has been enough to handle my offroad/snow needs.

[XXX-er]

It's not just clearance it's the overhang if you go off-road, I had the 4x4 83 suby wagon which had great clearance& not too much overhang / dual range / steel mags , still the over hang was the limiting factor most of the time

[char_]

In terms of offroading, I'd want something a level above what your average Subaru is capable of. I think this is mainly a clearance issue, but feel free to correct me as I know nothing of locking and differentials, etc. I've had to drive through snow drifts and over the occasional downed tree and rock features that would scrape the bottom of a Subaru. In terms of snow, the wife's Forester has generally been fine getting through our street in deeper snow before the plow comes. In general, my TRD 2001 Tundra has been enough to handle my offroad/snow needs.

You don't need a locker for this application. Trust me, I have one and I've never used it. (06 TRD owner).

If you said that you were going to go out and seriously 4wheel the thing, then maybe, but then you would probably want to get an air locker, etc etc etc.

Take the money, sell the shitty stock tires and buy a good A/T tire.

[TAFKALVS]

In terms of offroading, I'd want something a level above what your average Subaru is capable of. I think this is mainly a clearance issue, but feel free to correct me as I know nothing of locking and differentials, etc. I've had to drive through snow drifts and over the occasional downed tree and rock features that would scrape the bottom of a Subaru. In terms of snow, the wife's Forester has generally been fine getting through our street in deeper snow before the plow comes. In general, my TRD 2001 Tundra has been enough to handle my offroad/snow needs.

You don't need a locker to do what you're talking about doing. 4wd will be plenty. Why don't you just keep your tundra and build it up (search pirate4x4 and expedition portal websites for inspiration) for adventuring and then get an awd car for normal daily driver duties? Cheaper and then you're not beating on $40,000 truck when you need the offroad capabilities.

[bodywhomper]

You don't need a locker to do what you're talking about doing. 4wd will be plenty. Why don't you just keep your tundra and build it up (search pirate4x4 and expedition portal websites for inspiration) for adventuring and then get an awd car for normal daily driver duties? Cheaper and then you're not beating on $40,000 truck when you need the offroad capabilities.

^^^this

Also, eventually any car/truck that you get is gonna get a bit banged up because of living in snow country with lots of tourist.

[LightRanger]

^^^this

Also, eventually any car/truck that you get is gonna get a bit banged up because of living in snow country with lots of tourist.

Thirded.

A few things:
1. OEM e-locker comes with the TRD Offroad package and the even more expensive TRD Pro package (which also adds upgraded shocks, I think a slight additional lift, and some other stuff);
2. 4Runner or similar is better than a Taco for actual rockcrawling applications because of the approach and departure angles;
3. I doubt #2 is really going to matter that much to you;
4. 4Runner and Tacos both have A-TRAC, which is a significant step above a plain 4WD system--pretty sure your Tundra does too?;
5. I concur that, if you can spare the cash freed up for a down payment by selling the Tundra, keep the Tundra for 4x4ing and buy like a CX-5, used RDX/MDX with the SH-AWD, or something similar for your commute. That way you can beat the shit out of the Tundra and not care.

[Swine]

^^^this

Also, eventually any car/truck that you get is gonna get a bit banged up because of living in snow country with lots of tourist.

x4

No snark: I have no idea how to interpret your comment.



Below is my analysis, which very well may be flawed. But my conclusion is that, at least for the Chevy Colorado, the $4,000 diesel option pays for itself after about 100,000 miles and then, from that point, saves a fair amount with its better MPG. Assuming maintenance costs were the same (a big assumption), the diesel Colorado at about $40k is a better value than the v6 Tacoma at $36k.

The thing these back of napkin calculations don't take into account are fuel prices in different regions, but more than that the type of driving you're doing. My F150 runs like shit on anything but Premium when I'm driving in the mountains, which I do every day. So in Utah I'm spending more per gallon than diesel most of time. Second, I have to hit 3500 RPM with the Ford to equal the torque of the 2.8 Duramax, which does almost the same, actually slightly MORE than my Ford at 2000 RPM. If you compare my extended cab long bed to the same Colorado configuration the Chevy weighs nearly 1000lbs less than my Ford as well. I would save a substantial amount of money driving the diesel everyday because I pull 3000 feet up and 3000 feet down every day and if I actually hit 3500 RPM in the truck I'm getting like 7 MPG for quite a while. I don't, I go like 50 MPH in the slow lane and try to keep the tach under 2000 RPM because that gas engine just starts sucking fuel above that. The high torque of a diesel at low rpm's in the mountains on grades is not only going to save fuel, it will perform much better, and last much longer.

I still won't buy a new truck though. Waiting for this one to blow up and those diesels to hit the used market.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Why? It'd mostly be a daily driver for a deep-snow commute, but it'd also be used to offroad for certain ski, bike, and camping trips, sometimes with my 4-person/1-dog family in tow. I'd also, ideally, like the option of occasionally sleeping in it at the trailhead. My other options would seem to be an SUV or a Subaru, and for reasons I won't go into here, I don't want to give Subaru any more of my money. So, really, it's between a pickup or an SUV, and I'm not sure an SUV is categorically better for my purposes.

(Tangent: I have sometimes daydreamed about picking up a Focus RS. But I think a truck or SUV would be much more practical and there'd be a number of days a year when I'd have to wait for my street to be plowed before I could get into or out of my driveway with a Focus RS.)

You already own a Tundra for the 3-4 times a year that you go off-roading and you can camp in it and carry stuff. For your commute the Focus RS that you're tempted to buy is way more practical than a new pickup that you only need a few times a year. You can put a few thousand into your Tundra and the 50-70k miles that it has left will last you a decade using the Focus as a daily driver. You'll save money too.

[TAFKALVS]

3-5" Lift Kit
33" or 35" tall moderate MT or aggresive AT (I like the Goodyear Duratracs.) (Might want to regear depending on stock gear ratios in your diffs.)
Front and Rear Bumpers with beefy recovery points.
Recovery gear - high lift jack, maybe a winch or beefy come-along, tow straps.
Skid plates and Rock Sliders if you're planning on doing real off-roading vs driving on some really beat up roads.

Maybe $5000 worth of stuff, and you can buy it in parts and pieces as you want. Your Tundra built up with those parts will be way more capable than any stock new truck, even with the TRD pro package. You also won't cry when you drag the truck across a rock outcropping that both dents and scratches the shit out of it. Plus if something breaks while you're out in the hills you might have a chance of fixing it.

[Tryingtostaywarm]

So, it seems that there isn't a good middle-ground for what you need after reading all the comments. You already have a full-size truck which will no doubt last at least till 300k with proper care(if you haven't done a serious 200k maintenance on it..I would..all fluids in the entire truck(gear, power steering, coolant, brake etc.), belts(serpentine + timing), grease zerks, spark plugs, serpentine belt, fuel filter, air filter, tranny filter, brakes basically everything that is easily replaceable but makes things go round(figuratively and metaphorically). This can all be done in a solid 10-12 hour day, and nothing hard about it but buying the parts/time. That is, if you plan to keep the truck, and haven't done so already.

People are mentioning the Mazda CX-5 etc. but he already mentioned he wanted something a next level above a Subaru. Which, a Subaru Crosstrek/Forester/Outback, All-road, CX-5, etc. are all in the same category.

Final thoughts: There is no truck that is going to get the MPG's that a Subu/Mazda CX-5/whatever will get for a daily commuter. If it was me, I'd keep the Tundra, and buy a used Subaru Crosstrek/Forester for daily mountain commuting. That would be the budget idea...OR..if you have plentiful of cash to throw around, and a new $40k Colorado Diesel is nothing to you. Well, then this whole MPG/daily driver should be a moot point anyways.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

3-5" Lift Kit
33" or 35" tall moderate MT or aggresive AT (I like the Goodyear Duratracs.) (Might want to regear depending on stock gear ratios in your diffs.)
Front and Rear Bumpers with beefy recovery points.
Recovery gear - high lift jack, maybe a winch or beefy come-along, tow straps.
Skid plates and Rock Sliders if you're planning on doing real off-roading vs driving on some really beat up roads.

Maybe $5000 worth of stuff, and you can buy it in parts and pieces as you want. Your Tundra built up with those parts will be way more capable than any stock new truck, even with the TRD pro package. You also won't cry when you drag the truck across a rock outcropping that both dents and scratches the shit out of it. Plus if something breaks while you're out in the hills you might have a chance of fixing it.

I'd go 235/85 16 and no more than 2" on the lift. I think it already has good recovery points on the front. Throw a high lift behind the seat it can double as a come-along. Probably less than a $1000 total and it will get him up any FS road and 99% of all "roads".

Buy the Focus, if worried about the snow covered road drive the Tundra or get a used lightweight plow for the Tundra and plow the road yourself. You'll feel like a real man too.

[TAFKALVS]

I'd go 235/85 16 and no more than 2" on the lift. I think it already has good recovery points on the front. Throw a high lift behind the seat it can double as a come-along. Probably less than a $1000 total and it will get him up any FS road and 99% of all "roads".

Buy the Focus, if worried about the snow covered road drive the Tundra or get a used lightweight plow for the Tundra and plow the road yourself. You'll feel like a real man too.

That sounds like a really lame BRO DOZER, Aaron. What are you going to say next, he doesn't need 18" chrome rims or a 48" light bar?

[AKbruin]

Thanks for the input, all.

The idea of owning two vehicles is neat, but I'm not getting a vehicle "quiver" for a variety of reasons that I won't go into. One car or truck, that's it.

Aaron, I appreciate your opinion, but you haven't actually provided a reason why a truck can't be a reasonable daily driver. My wife's Forester averages about 23 mpg, and I hate the thing. (The Focus RS, BTW, gets 19/25 using premium fuel and would be useless in deep snow. It's a fun idea, but not at all practical.) And, for my general needs/desires, I don't see trucks necessarily having a huge disadvantage to SUV/Subarus in these regards, particularly the new fuel-efficient trucks. Honestly, maybe it's too good to be true, but a 26-mpg diesel Chevy ticks a lot boxes, although it's initial price tag is a big issue.

The Tundra is beat to shit to the point where I'm now afraid to take her on anything rougher than your average fire road. Again, I plan on driving it for a while, but I'm not going to try to get 400k+ from it. And I'm not that inclined to invest much more money in it at this point. I'd like to keep running well enough until an pick up something to replace it, which will likely be in a year or two. But there's always the possibility that something major on it will go, expediting the process.

As for the vehicle getting beat to crap in snow country, I am very aware.

Of course, I can see that there are contradictions in what I want from my next vehicle. Part of the process is realizing where to compromise and what to prioritize, which I'm still working out.