Daily Driver

[The SnowShow]

Ha, I know. But it's an interesting conversation.

Adrenalated: the Viciks have a 26m sidecut and the Wrens a 23.5m, but wouldn't a softer ski bend into a turn better?

FWIW, my Turbos are 28m so both would be tighter.

Thanks for the help all!

[ScrewYou]

Honestly the Wren 112 is mostly stiffer than the BG in the tails. Underfoot and in the tip it's stiffer but not by that much. I felt like overall the Vicik and BG were pretty similar in the same 186 size but YMMV.
Never skied or even hand flexed the Tychoon.

Maybe its because im comparing a 186 Vicik to a 191 Billy Goat? The 191 Wren should be a fair bit stiffer than the BG? My Line Sick Day 125s are just as stiff as the Billy Goat, I really dont consider the BG to be "super stiff"... Hand fiddling vicik, BG, and SD125 as i type this.

I am going to go with veneer if available. That sounds great for what im looking for though. Im looking for a 191 Katana replacement, with camber and a bit of pop, and a custom 191 wren 113 may be it.

[Gepeto]

5 pages of recommendations and you are still looking for a daily driver...?

Had to read the last 15 posts over a few times just to keep track

Ha, I know. But it's an interesting conversation.

But, I agree - learned a few things I like knowing

Honestly the Wren 112 is mostly stiffer than the BG in the tails. Underfoot and in the tip it's stiffer but not by that much.

Also caught your full take on the wren: http://www.adrenalated.com/Gear-Revi...ON3P-Wrenegade

You compared it (wren) to most of your quiver but, not the Freeride.

Wondered if you could tap the memory bank and compare the Wren 112 to your Freeride 107. General stiffness (back/middle/front), maneuverability, stability, and the like.

I'll take into account your dynafiddles are on the Freerides.

Have your ridden the FR with an alpine clamp?

[adrenalated]

Adrenalated: the Viciks have a 26m sidecut and the Wrens a 23.5m, but wouldn't a softer ski bend into a turn better?

Well yes, but....

So flex and radius both influence how quickly a ski turns. However they're not equivalent. Sidecut radius determines the turn radius that a ski naturally wants to make when rolled up on edge, with minimal bending of the ski. Of course, you can always bend the ski into a tighter turn (that's how carved turns were possible on straight skis). Flex controls how much effort it takes to bend the ski into that tighter turn.

So yes, a softer ski will be easier to bend into a tighter turn than a stiffer ski. But, a ski with a tighter turn radius will naturally want to make a tighter turn regardless of how much force you're applying into bending the ski. Especially in the situations you describe - trees, etc - you're often needing to change direction quickly at the very start of the turn, where you may not be applying a lot of force to it right away, so IMO a tighter turn radius will make the ski feel quicker than a softer flexing, long radius ski.

If the ski has a longer radius than the turn you want to make, and you lack the strength/skill/mass to bend the ski into that tighter, carved turn, you'll be forced to skid it. Which I view as an acceptable and necessary technique for a modern freeride skier in certain situations.

Of course, both those design attributes (softer flex, tighter turn radius) have downsides elsewhere. The tighter turn radius can make the ski twitchy and uncomfortable in longer radius turns or while straightlining (if that's your thing), and a softer flex is less stable at higher speeds, particularly in choppy snow.

I personally prefer stiffer, straighter skis and am fine with more effort and skidding in order to get through tight places (in reward for long-radius stability), but not everyone is.

Also caught your full take on the wren: http://www.adrenalated.com/Gear-Revi...ON3P-Wrenegade

You compared it (wren) to most of your quiver but, not the Freeride.

Wondered if you could tap the memory bank and compare the Wren 112 to your Freeride 107. General stiffness (back/middle/front), maneuverability, stability, and the like.

I'll take into account your dynafiddles are on the Freerides.

Have your ridden the FR with an alpine clamp?

I have not skied the FR with an alpine binding and that's why I didn't compare them directly.
My pair are med/stiff flex (now called #4) with the MAP-carbon construction.

So the overall flex pattern of Wren 112 is stiff in the tail and underfoot, with a more forgiving tip. Not a lot, but definitely softer than the rest of the ski. The FR is much more rounded in flex and pretty consistent the whole way through. It's overall softer than the Wren 112. In my previous 7-8-9 scale it's probably around a 7-7.5. It skis a touch softer than the Vicik for sure. It is more maneuverable than the Wren 112, which I think is a combination of tighter turn radius, length, flex, and width (in that order). Really hard to directly compare stability when we're talking Dynafit vs FKS, Maestrale RS vs Scorpion 130, and backcountry snow vs resort chunder. Overall the FR tends to have more pop and is not as damp, which I've found to be typical of Praxis vs ON3P. I do suspect some of the new layup options from Praxis like the extra hardwood core and veneers will provide a ski feel more like ON3P if one so desires. Depending on the layup and flex, a FR would ski pretty damn similarly to a Wren 102.

[auvgeek]

Well yes, but....

Well explained.

It's also worth mentioning that there are other factors that influence the way a ski feels, too. Rocker, shape, mount point, etc, all play a role...which is why it's SO hard to predict how something will ski based on one or two design criteria alone. For example, the 4FRNT Renegade (35m radius) always felt like it had a shorter turn radius to me than the Billy Goat (29.X m radius).

Sure, specs can give you an idea, and detailed specs like Praxis and Down skis provides give you a better idea, but sometimes you just have to ski something to tell if the design elements work harmoniously together.

Is it winter yet?

[The SnowShow]

^^^ all great points. This is a great conversation for a 95° day.

[ScrewYou]

About 100 days or less till early season...

The stoke flame is building here. I had a wimpy season last year, only 42 days, but a high percentage of that was powder days so not the worst.. This upcoming season, im getting atleast 75 days in. Hopefully can get 30 days in Whistler commuting from Bellingham.

[The SnowShow]

Adrenalated: out of curiosity, what would a newer S7 or Line SFB be on your scale above? Like a 3-4?

[adrenalated]

No idea. OG S7 is probably around a 4?

[LiveLarger]

OP: I realize I'm late to the party here. For what it's worth I'm using a DPS RPC P3 as a daily driver and like it a lot. I'm lucky enough to ski a lot of pow and when conditions are soft, the RPC is amazing. On fairly consistent groomers, it's also great. Better than you would expect a 115 mm ski to be. It does have limitations on refrozen garbage snow though (which I also happen to ski a lot) For that purpose I'm adding a DPS Wailer 105 T2 this year. Will be interesting to see which one chose to ski the most.

[Shu Shu]

Well yes, but....

I personally prefer stiffer, straighter skis and am fine with more effort and skidding in order to get through tight places (in reward for long-radius stability), but not everyone is.

Loved this whole post. Just to add to this point. I also find that having a stiff ski with a large turn radius, the feeling of riding the natural turn radius can become really addictive, and you naturally start evolving your approach to lines to be able maximize this as much as possible.

At least that was my experience with the Garbones.

edit: In my gnarliest moments of linking a few big turns and hitting massive 10 foot drops I like to imagine myself looking something like this.