VW Cheater Diesels

[PNWbrit]

Maybe there's some magical new tech that'll make them that much cleaner, but it sure doesn't seem like it at this point.

It looks like the next big leap (maybe the last?) in internal combustion engines will be Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition.. gasoline engine deliberately creating and using knock or pre-ignition to ignite a part of the fuel air charge in multi part injection process to better control and slow the main charge ingition, whether or not that is done by regular spark plug, which depends on rev range, driving conditions etc.. Formula one engines are just starting to use it the past two years.. fascinating stuff.

[LightRanger]

^^^ Interesting. Looks like a decent number of prototypes at a bunch of the major automakers, per the wiki entry. Thanks for that. Definitely cool.

[PNWbrit]

^^^ Interesting. Looks like a decent number of prototypes at a bunch of the major automakers, per the wiki entry. Thanks for that. Definitely cool.

You might like these two articles.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/op...1-jet-ignition

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/op...s-power-secret

[Dantheman]

And it's hard (read: impossible) to have two enforceable sets of air pollution standards--one for urban/suburban areas and one for rural.

Utah has done this for years, emissions limits are much higher outside of the Wasatch front and Logan. The bigger impediment (and maybe this is what you meant) is that no manufacturers will bother making vehicles specifically for those smaller markets since it's not profitable.

[Nevada29er]

This is who the EPA should be going after:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...013-story.html

[XXX-er]

"It's not clear how many trucks are involved. One truck manufacturer called the group "a niche inside a niche." "

I think expecting the EPA to hand out tickets in yer home town is a stretch

[LightRanger]

Utah has done this for years, emissions limits are much higher outside of the Wasatch front and Logan. The bigger impediment (and maybe this is what you meant) is that no manufacturers will bother making vehicles specifically for those smaller markets since it's not profitable.

On vehicles? That's the first I'd heard of such a thing. I suppose you could do it based on registration location, but it seems like a PITA to implement. In CA it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense because relatively few people live outside the LA-OC-SD area (where smog is bad), Inland Empire (likewise), Central Valley (even worse in many places), and Bay Area (mostly less bad than the others but still bad, and densely populated). Then, of course, we have prevailing winds off the ocean that concentrate particulates to the east of where they're actually emitted.

Fixed point sources of emissions are different and easier to deal with (e.g. local air quality management districts).

Your second point too though.

[adrenalated]

Colorado only requires vehicle emissions testing for the urban part of the state. Essentially Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Castle Rock. The rest of the state has no emissions requirements. It is based off the address where the vehicle is registered.

[HHTELE]

I'm talking out of my ass here. But, after living in Europe for a good amount of time driving exclusively diesel SUV's,trucks, and cars . How 'Murica isn't on board on the diesel thing has to be only one thing I can think of. Oil companies are in cahoots with automotive manufacturers(already known), if you start building cars like what are available in every other country but US/Canada then demand will go wayyy down if you literally increase every vehicle across the spectrum MPG's by 10+. You see the issue here. Most say that we can't have them because of emissions. Well shit, why would Europeans in general..especially West Europe(Scandinavia, Germany/Austria/Switzerland etc.) be soooo concerned with going green, their pollutants, mandatory recycling where you have to separate all your trash etc.. then just NOT give a shit about their diesel cars. That is, claiming that diesels polute ungodly amounts of whatever is complete manure on the US part. We get a little bit of that taste with the VW's, and the new GMC/Chevy Colorado but still. My 4x4 Hilux over across the pond was getting consistent mid-20 MPG's when converted from km/L, and yes it as 4x4 w/ 32's on it. Why does Europe have these extremely fuel efficient vehicles(compared to the US): Because their diesel/petrol prices are $3-4 dollars more per gallon(when converted) than the US. Therefore, they HAVE to have more efficiency because no one is going to buy a fucking truck that gets 10mpg when it costs $200+ to fill up. Here, in 'Murica where fuel is cheap there isn't a need for ultra-efficient vehicles because it isn't mandatory if that makes sense. I mean, this isn't a revelation, and is rather expected because after-all this is 'Murica. We like those greenbacks.
Just look at the 4BT motor that is ever-so-popular in off-road vehicles.

In England right now driving a fun, fuel efficient Seat Leon FR- just got back from italy where I was driving a comfortable, spacious efficient diesel Nissan Qashqai.

I used to wonder the same about euro vs us cars, looking at the same car, same drivetrain, and much better mileage on the UK version.

We can achieve the same MPG if we follow their lead:
1-Pollute more. plain and simple, our emissions regs are more stringent.
2-Use bigger gallons. A car that gets 40 mpg on a US gallone will get 48 mpg on a UK gallon. This is an environmentally friendly way to raise mpg.

There are car models here in the UK simply not available in the US, but a lot of that has more to do with our free market economy. americans don't like downshifting, and are not willing to drive a Yaris with 68 BHP. I think my last motorcycle was just over 100 bhp.

[Dantheman]

Colorado only requires vehicle emissions testing for the urban part of the state. Essentially Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Castle Rock. The rest of the state has no emissions requirements. It is based off the address where the vehicle is registered.

Yep, that's how UT does it. You do get people gaming the system by registering their vehicles at friend or family's address in a different county, but not many do and you could probably make that much harder or impossible relatively easily.

[bodywhomper]

Colorado only requires vehicle emissions testing for the urban part of the state. Essentially Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Castle Rock. The rest of the state has no emissions requirements. It is based off the address where the vehicle is registered.

I believe this is all about exceedances with the national ambient air quality emission standards, whether air basins are in "attainment" with those standards, plans at the state level to have those basins come into attainment, and plans at the local level to meet the state implementation plans. Each state (and some tribes) can have autonomy to get into attainment. Complicating things, Cali has its own standards that are generally more strict than the EPA. I am guessing that several other states do, too.

Why is nobody discussing biodiesel (b20) hybrid vehicles?

[Shredhead]

The trouble with bio, it clogs up the engines and you have higher Maintance cost.
We have a fleet and our own tanks. We buy the lowest (2%) allowed.

[uglymoney]

Biodiesel made from soybeans leads to even more soil erosion and fresh water use than corn ethanol. Gels in the winter.

[XXX-er]

You can run almost anything in an old tech engine like a 7.3 ford but bio or wvo don't work flawlessly in a modern TDi engine

[bodywhomper]

Interesting. I believe San Francisco is bringing in a diesel hybrid bud fleet that will run b20, granted SF has a pretty good climate for it. I'm not sure about the source for the b20. Isn't mammoth using bio for their genies? I'm not sure about their source, either.

[PNWbrit]

There is a statistic floating around at the moment

which really makes the point: if the levels of efficiency in F1 engines were applied to road cars across the board, the average fuel consumption on a road car would be 165 mpg.

[uglymoney]

For VW TDI owners, onslaught of letters from lawyers deepens the sense of betrayal

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diese...#ixzz47EqBayFh

[XXX-er]

I guess I have owned 4 VW's being a westy, a karmann ghia & 2 TDi's

I don't really care about the betrayal, I would look at how this affects resale and the need to pass any emission testing in your jurisdiction, if you are going to drive this thing forever resale may not matter but if you can't license the car that is a huge probelm

[TAFKALVS]

There is a statistic floating around at the moment

No emissions equipment probably plays a large part.

On the newer diesel trucks, removal of all emissions equipment generally nets 5-8mpg improvement if the truck isn't tuned to "roll coal" or be super high horsepower.

[PNWbrit]

No emissions equipment probably plays a large part.

Sure some.. Maybe not a large part though.

The current engine formula with limited total fuel, fuel flow rate, turbo, MGU-K, MGU-H and energy store is leading to huge improvements in efficiency... extracting every last joule of energy from each liter of gasoline is fundamentally beneficial for future series production cars...

On the newer diesel trucks, removal of all emissions equipment

Obviously F1 cars are not diesels. and that improvement is very much greater than that expected by removing emissions gear from gasoline engines, given their very different nature.

It would be interesting to know what the Audi and Peugeot diesel endurance racers spat out in terms of emissions?

[Tryingtostaywarm]

Ah, this is like Lance Armstrong scenario for cars. People are going to persecute solely VW but I'm sure everyone is doing the same darn thing...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-of-automakers
Also, if anyone thinks selling their VW TDI right now solely because their car is not as clean as they once thought/their individual impact on the environment. Don't worry, the other 20k diesel owners in Iowa blowing lines of black soot out of their straight piped 3/4ton trucks will make up for it.

[LightRanger]

Interesting. I believe San Francisco is bringing in a diesel hybrid bud fleet that will run b20, granted SF has a pretty good climate for it. I'm not sure about the source for the b20. Isn't mammoth using bio for their genies? I'm not sure about their source, either.

Northstar uses it for their equipment. There's a pump at their little gas station that the public can purchase from too.

[Nevada29er]

Ford's New "Game Changing" EcoBlue 2.0 Diesel. I wonder if this will make it to this side of the pond?

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...er-106892.html