Killed while filming. How do we backtrack from where we are?

**powdork** · 04-21-2016, 01:07 PM

In the last two weeks we have lost two shining stars to avalanches while filming for ski movies. Has the industry gotten to the point that unnecessary risks are being taken to stay on top of the game? When the top of the game is already skirting the edge to stay relevant, how do we backtrack to a safe level while still entertaining the masses and (ugggh) selling the product that pays for the movies to be produced?
RIP Maxim
RIP Estelle

**TahoeJ** · 04-21-2016, 01:12 PM

There's no going back, I suspect. Better and more creative cinematography is key though. Some of my favorite segments from ski movies aren't necessarily featuring the craziest or most dangerous skiing.

**capulin overdrive** · 04-21-2016, 01:17 PM

Yup^^^^ Big line thing is pretty well played out, and can't sell very good.

Suspect the locations are as much about them wanting to be there, vs what they think will sell?

**COpow** · 04-21-2016, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

There's no going back, I suspect. Better and more creative cinematography is key though. Some of my favorite segments from ski movies aren't necessarily featuring the craziest or most dangerous skiing.

Agreed. Some of the more unique and stand-out segments to me over the last few years include Cody T.'s section ripping Snowbird (?) with a few friends, or sections that focused on the travel component of getting to new and unique places.

**powdork** · 04-21-2016, 01:22 PM

^^On the other hand you have Cody Townsend's Line of the Year. How does he (or the competition) top that with an acceptable level of risk?

**skiNEwhere** · 04-21-2016, 01:22 PM

I do wonder how much proactive Avalanche mitigation (digging snowpits, analyzing snowpack) is done off camera before they film these segments. Seems like a lot of these films always feature one or two avalanches

**simple** · 04-21-2016, 01:30 PM

How many avalanches will be in the next Travis Rice movie? People eat that shit up.

**hatchgreenchile** · 04-21-2016, 01:33 PM

Jetpacks are the next airbags.

**danmelon** · 04-21-2016, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

Jetpacks are the next airbags.

Maybe that's part of the problem, airbags giving a false sense of security, leading to acceptance of higher risks. Although no idea if airbags were used in these two latest incidents.

**skiNEwhere** · 04-21-2016, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by danmelon

Maybe that's part of the problem, airbags giving a false sense of security, leading to acceptance of higher risks. Although no idea if airbags were used in these two latest incidents.

+1000

I've always felt that airbags CAN cause complacency in the fact that skiers feel they don't need a proactive solution to Avalanche mitigation. No doubt they save lives though

**hatchgreenchile** · 04-21-2016, 01:43 PM

Gear shouldn't effect decision making, but I can see how it would. Even the sluff some of these guys are working to manage is pretty intense.

**powdork** · 04-21-2016, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by danmelon

Maybe that's part of the problem, airbags giving a false sense of security, leading to acceptance of higher risks. Although no idea if airbags were used in these two latest incidents.

Estelle did have an airbag but the trauma from the 3,000' vert slide did her in. I would guess Maxim had one but from the description it sounds like wouldn't have had time to deploy it or it wouldn't have had time to have had an effect (they do nothing if you're stuck in a terrain trap and snow piles over you).

**mufasa5446** · 04-21-2016, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by skinewhere

I do wonder how much proactive Avalanche mitigation (digging snowpits, analyzing snowpack) is done off camera before they film these segments. Seems like a lot of these films always feature one or two avalanches

From the behinds the scenes stuff I've seen, it seems like quite a bit.

But getting dropped off by a heli on those steep lines increases the risk of not really knowing exactly what the snow is doing on your line, and those beautiful lines are ridden with terrain traps.

High risk athletics-athletes gotta ask "is it worth the risk" and I imagine nowadays they know the risks and can make that decision.

**skiNEwhere** · 04-21-2016, 02:16 PM

How much raw footage is needed to create one, single, 60 minute film? I imagine that 100's of hours of film don't make the final cut. Crews could go ahead and dig snow pits on all of these heli-lines you see in the film, but that would take a great amount of time, energy and money.

The sponsors want a finished product in the allotted time, so safety is probably not priority #1.

**Bunion 2020** · 04-21-2016, 02:27 PM

I think that you are overweighting what digging these pits would achieve.

Want to test a line, shoot it.

Except that won't work either in most cases dues to Regulations and aesthetics.

About the only weapon available is terrain management and risk management and in a small number athletes that won't be enough.

And as for airbags, sure they can keep you on top. In a 3000' ride that can mean you are a human pinball if you deploy near the top.

**Scottish_Skier** · 04-21-2016, 02:55 PM

When was the last time a ski / board film showed someone backing off a line ?

As an older and slightly wiser dude cant help but feel the ski movie industry has some kind of obligation to educate the kids a little more ?

The "3,2,1, dropping" into extremo terrain mantra is far removed from how educated people should be acting in big mountains ? Though it makes good jaw dropping entertainment - and we all want to watch them go big or go home...

**mtnjam** · 04-21-2016, 03:05 PM

Go back to filming like Barrymore and Stump did years ago, who cares if the snow was all tracked up or completely bumped out, those zipper line old school classic bump lines were fun to watch and ski. I know people get bored with watching ski racers and bump comps, but they are what defined ski films and the art of making them back in the day.

**ex-powderbroker** · 04-21-2016, 03:14 PM

Only film in the Catskills during an El Niño, problem solved.

**powdork** · 04-21-2016, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by mtnjam

Go back to filming like Barrymore and Stump did years ago, who cares if the snow was all tracked up or completely bumped out, those zipper line old school classic bump lines were fun to watch and ski. I know people get bored with watching ski racers and bump comps, but they are what defined ski films and the art of making them back in the day.

I disagree. They are no fun to ski and even less fun to watch. If that's what skiing amounted to, i would be fat, lazy, and rich.

**::: :::** · 04-21-2016, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by danmelon

Maybe that's part of the problem, airbags giving a false sense of security, leading to acceptance of higher risks. Although no idea if airbags were used in these two latest incidents.

there's also the issue of skiing fresh tracks for the special lines so that the shot shows that they are the first to touch it

digging, cornice cutting can only do so much when there is a competing, filmic interest in showing pristine, wild conditions (that would keep the testing somewhat off camera)

(i think it's pretty well established that the bigger filming companies are very careful with their athletes, but, as we know, there are no guarantees)

**Hacksaw** · 04-21-2016, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by bunion

I think that you are overweighting what digging these pits would achieve.

Want to test a line, shoot it.

Except that won't work either in most cases dues to Regulations and aesthetics.

About the only weapon available is terrain management and risk management and in a small number athletes that won't be enough.

And as for airbags, sure they can keep you on top. In a 3000' ride that can mean you are a human pinball if you deploy near the top.

Agreed....

**danadog** · 04-21-2016, 03:59 PM

Here is another really close call last week up in AK while filming. Props to the AK heli staff for getting him out in under 8 mins and that is even more impressive considering he was 9' under.
http://khns.org/utah-snowboarder-inj...ines-avalanche

We were skiing just down the road with SEABA when the report came across the radio and is a real eye opener.

**iscariot** · 04-21-2016, 04:24 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/...eath-1.3546839

This isn't good.

Whistler area pro killed while filming in AK today.

They aren't releasing the name til next of kin are notified.

**adrenalated** · 04-21-2016, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by iscariot

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/...eath-1.3546839

This isn't good.

Whistler area pro killed while filming in AK today.

They aren't releasing the name til next of kin are notified.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-Max-Arsenault

**neck beard** · 04-21-2016, 05:10 PM

Digging pits? The terrain is the problem. Just look at what these people ski. Ski terrain like that and you accept multiple mountain hazards into your life. It isn't a game. I suspect many participants in extreme terrain skiing know and accept this reality. Maybe the very young wannabe pro good looking star struck product hopefuls are naive, but the crew who have spent a decade plus in that terrain know exactly what the downside is. They love that type of skiing, they make their choices. I don't judge them. But I do not see them as stars or heroes either.