At least one bike company hasn't completely lost it's mind.........

[kidwoo]

Holy shit, that exists? ^^^^^^^





He has no courage.


I should have invited this guy

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...!!!?highlight=

[simple]

I ride a 69er. I feel weird now.

[jamal]

27.5 makes for a wheel that is .75 " taller
How did they arrive at 26" for the wheel size of a mtn bike... Probably at random

The difference in BSD is 25mm, not an actual whole 1.5 inches/exactly inbetween like I guess the industry wants everyone to think. So with the same size tire the difference between the axle in the ground is 12.5mm, or half an inch. Could be more or less, like I already mentioned, depending on the tires.

It's like barely significant, and seeing people get so worked up about it cracks me up. What does it really matter that most new mtbs have slightly bigger wheels?

ps I have a 29er and plan to buy another one.

[teledad]

How did they arrive at 26" for the wheel size of a mtn bike... Probably at random

Kinda. When the Marin County guys started riding Repack etc. they used balloon tired bikes (beach cruisers, "paperboy" bikes, etc.) that were usually 26x2.25. Later on they started building frames and components but (mostly) kept the same wheel size due to tire availability. There weren't many 650B (aka 27.5") wheels or tires in the US at the time and 700c (aka 29") was just skinny road tires or almost-as-skinny cyclocross.

[El Kanone]

I ride with a bandanna headband and have been since 1985. I didn't know that made me lame to the cool kids. Kinda of bummed now.

[That was Pontus]

Hauling ass like a freight train through the chunder on some monster truck tires held together with some Gorilla tape and a prayer is pretty thrilling. The next bike will probably be one of these full springy longer travel-big wheel scams popping up. Probably not in time to catch this bike off in Moab tho...

[Vt-Freeheel]

Damn! I wish I could just have fun riding.

[strawjack]

Kinda. When the Marin County guys started riding Repack etc. they used balloon tired bikes (beach cruisers, "paperboy" bikes, etc.) that were usually 26x2.25. Later on they started building frames and components but (mostly) kept the same wheel size due to tire availability. There weren't many 650B (aka 27.5") wheels or tires in the US at the time and 700c (aka 29") was just skinny road tires or almost-as-skinny cyclocross.

Yeah, if the Marin boys were in Europe, we probably would not have started with 26".

[Damian Sanders]

The difference in BSD is 25mm, not an actual whole 1.5 inches/exactly inbetween like I guess the industry wants everyone to think. So with the same size tire the difference between the axle in the ground is 12.5mm, or half an inch. Could be more or less, like I already mentioned, depending on the tires.

It's like barely significant, and seeing people get so worked up about it cracks me up. What does it really matter that most new mtbs have slightly bigger wheels?

ps I have a 29er and plan to buy another one.

True, but not entirely true. If you took all the parts off an older 26" bike and put them on a new 650b frame, you'll actually end up with a bottom bracket around .7" lower than the intended height. And a steeper head angle than intended.

Why? Because the 26" fork (assuming it is the same model and travel), is actually 12.5mm (~.5") shorter in axle to crown measurement than the 650b equivalent fork. Then you have to factor in the intended fork the frame is designed for - if it's designed for a 150mm fork and you want to use a 140mm fork, it's going to put the bottom bracket down even further.

The .7" is a significant amount on a modern bike with an already low BB, nearly 18mm. People run 165mm cranks vs. 175mm, to get 10mm of clearance. How about all the super skinny aftermarket pedals?

Then there's the chainstay length, which is automatically going to be 1/2" longer on a 650b bike.

There may be a few cases where a 650b frame will end up with acceptable geometry with a 26" fork and wheels, but in most case they won't.

Say you want to take a 130mm travel 650b frame intended for a 130mm fork, and put a 26" 160mm fork and 26" wheels on it, that will work, as long as you are ok with whatever the chainstay length is. You get a shallower head angle, and generally correct bottom bracket height.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

True, but not entirely true. If you took all the parts off an older 26" bike and put them on a new 650b frame, you'll actually end up with a bottom bracket around .7" lower than the intended height. And a steeper head angle than intended.

Why? Because the 26" fork (assuming it is the same model and travel), is actually 12.5mm (~.5") shorter in axle to crown measurement than the 650b equivalent fork. Then you have to factor in the intended fork the frame is designed for - if it's designed for a 150mm fork and you want to use a 140mm fork, it's going to put the bottom bracket down even further.

The .7" is a significant amount on a modern bike with an already low BB, nearly 18mm. People run 165mm cranks vs. 175mm, to get 10mm of clearance. How about all the super skinny aftermarket pedals?

Then there's the chainstay length, which is automatically going to be 1/2" longer on a 650b bike.

There may be a few cases where a 650b frame will end up with acceptable geometry with a 26" fork and wheels, but in most case they won't.

Say you want to take a 130mm travel 650b frame intended for a 130mm fork, and put a 26" 160mm fork and 26" wheels on it, that will work, as long as you are ok with whatever the chainstay length is. You get a shallower head angle, and generally correct bottom bracket height.

That's all true, but the discussion is about swapping wheels on a frame set(frame and fork, I think that's been obvious) and that does nothing to geometry but change bottom bracket height a marginal amount either way. Nobody suggested using a 26" fork on a frame designed for 650b/27.5.

The real issue is your pathologic resistance to change and the inability to see that there are people out there enjoying bikes with bigger wheels than 26". You may prefer 26" wheels but for most adults a larger wheels size is better for mtb unless you are short, like 5' 5" and under.

[Damian Sanders]

That's all true, but the discussion is about swapping wheels on a frame set(frame and fork, I think that's been obvious) and that does nothing to geometry but change bottom bracket height a marginal amount either way. Nobody suggested using a 26" fork on a frame designed for 650b/27.5.

The real issue is your pathologic resistance to change and the inability to see that there are people out there enjoying bikes with bigger wheels than 26". You may prefer 26" wheels but for most adults a larger wheels size is better for mtb unless you are short, like 5' 5" and under.

The industry is taking a radical and deceptive point of view regarding wheel size (in pursuit of sales). They are liars. I'm taking the logical counterpoint to them, which is entirely reasonable, and will not stop attacking them.

And who is going to actually buy a 650b frame and fork and run 26" wheels............morons? Are these the same morons who put 650b wheels on 26" bikes, or morons who buy 29ers, or morons who buy 650b bikes? Or are they an entirely new type of moron?

[jetski]

Thus, I take the correct, opposite point of view - mountain bikes with 650b and 700c (road bike sized) wheels are a waste of time, an industry scam, for posers who can't ride, and don't build up an effective bike. People who buy them are sheep.

Ummm, Its your opinion and in your mind correct. Doesn't make your view the only one. Choice is great and I fully understand your frustration for not having a huge selection of 26 offerings. I love me my 29ers and have a whole shitload of fun...If I was running 26 inch still I would have a shitload of fun. You can't buy the experience. I live in the Canadian Rockies and my trails are so Tecknakal my 29er just floats through. Thanks for telling me I don't know how to ride and that I'm a poser. (not true...I wear baggies)
Most awesome riders, like yourself, have no problems adapting to the dumbass new wheel sizes and after a few rides learn to have fun again.

[Damian Sanders]

Ummm, Its your opinion and in your mind correct. Doesn't make your view the only one. Choice is great and I fully understand your frustration for not having a huge selection of 26 offerings. I love me my 29ers and have a whole shitload of fun...If I was running 26 inch still I would have a shitload of fun. You can't buy the experience. I live in the Canadian Rockies and my trails are so Tecknakal my 29er just floats through. Thanks for telling me I don't know how to ride and that I'm a poser. (not true...I wear baggies)
Most awesome riders, like yourself, have no problems adapting to the dumbass new wheel sizes and after a few rides learn to have fun again.

Whenever I ride with groups, I have no problem outriding anyone with a 650b or 700c mountain bike. Part of this is because of the natural advantages I have with 26" wheels.

When people get on 700c mountain bikes, they think "omgs!!! the rolloveerrssees!!111!" Yes, it's noticeable, but it's really only a small advantage. You still can't ram into a 6" square edge curb at 20mph without pulling up, like you can with heavy duty 26" DH bike. Some people neglect to notice all the other MANY disadvantages of the larger wheels....although many do eventually.

[toast2266]

logical counterpoint

*chortle*

[jetski]

Whenever I ride with groups, I have no problem outriding anyone with a 650b or 700c mountain bike. Part of this is because of the natural advantages I have with 26" wheels.

Do not judge yourself based on others...for there will always be those greater and lesser than yourself.

[jm2e]

Here's a visual aide to this argument:

When I saw this, I thought "man, Kidwoo has an awesome life! He's a successful manager, he's good at sports, he volunteers at children's sports games, he bangs hot chicks, he's got a sweet dog and a cool car, he's funny. Must be awesome being short!"
Then I thought, "the guy who just can't stop being a big prick on the interwebz must be compensating for having a small prick".
It only makes sense. And frankly, I'm thinking Kidwoo has the better outcome here.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I'm in for a 48-pack of Kirkland Light.

No no, some kind of locally sourced malty ale.

Highway Star, get raped.

[Sirshredalot]

Whenever I ride with groups, I have no problem outriding anyone with a 650b or 700c mountain bike. Part of this is because of the natural advantages I have with 26" wheels.

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm kind of skeptical about the riding ability of anyone who gets their panties wadded up about bike geometry. I've met people who I learned had a pretty big mtbr post count who couldn't ride much. I haven't noticed much of a difference in my own abilities whether I'm on a fat bike, a 29er, or a 20 inch bmx bike.

Can you post some video demonstrating how hard you rip?

[Damian Sanders]

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm kind of skeptical about the riding ability of anyone who gets their panties wadded up about bike geometry. I've met people who I learned had a pretty big mtbr post count who couldn't ride much. I haven't noticed much of a difference in my own abilities whether I'm on a fat bike, a 29er, or a 20 inch bmx bike.

Can you post some video demonstrating how hard you rip?

No video, though I might start running my sony action cam on the bike. I started riding in 1992, I've worked in shops, raced DH and XC. I enjoy technical rock and long walks on the beach.

[Sirshredalot]

No video, though I might start running my sony action cam on the bike. I started riding in 1992, I've worked in shops, raced DH and XC. I enjoy technical rock and long walks on the beach.

So, you've been riding impossibly hard since 1992, and you don't even have a still photo of you shredding way harder than anybody else to show for it? I'm really surprised to hear that!

Where do you race? What class? Can we see your race results?

[Damian Sanders]

So, you've been riding impossibly hard since 1992, and you don't even have a still photo of you shredding way harder than anybody else to show for it? I'm really surprised to hear that!

Where do you race? What class? Can we see your race results?

Sport XC and Expert DH. Mid pack finishes. Intermittently from 1996 to 2001. My brother might have some video of me racing plattekill in 2001.

But really, I just like technical riding. Riding up and over things that are difficult to ride over.

I also rode full rigid until 1995.

[N1CK.]

Dude, he raced 'expert dh' ... don't mess with the bull or you'll get the horns!!

Apparently Vermont > anywhere for the rox and technicals. Got it.

[joetron]

You still can't ram into a 6" square edge curb at 20mph without pulling up, like you can with heavy duty 26" DH bike.

But you could do this on a heavy duty 27.5 DH bike or even a heavy duty 160mm 29". I have witnessed such feats.

Furthermore, in all cases you'd be best served by unweighting the bike a bit or hopping the curb altogether.

[joetron]

I also rode full rigid until 1995.

Yeah you did!

[Damian Sanders]

But you could do this on a heavy duty 27.5 DH bike or even a heavy duty 160mm 29". I have witnessed such feats.

Furthermore, in all cases you'd be best served by unweighting the bike a bit or hopping the curb altogether.

Of course. And with what size wheel is it easiest to do that with?

29er's are the integrated ski bindings of the biking world.