G3 Alpinist LT skins, too short?

[neck beard]

Has anyone got extensive positive or (limited negative) experience with the new G3 Alpinist LT skins? I have a new pair which are appropriate for my ski length according to the G3 spec chart. Yet they are REALLY short. They have a very long rubber rat tail, but a very short skin length. And the skin tail is also tapered over a significant length, so the tail section of the skin is not just short, it is narrow. My first instinct it to return them for a refund as a lot of ski tail ptex is showing, and it is underfoot and in the tails that gives grip by weighing your heels when you climb, and less so the front of the ski.

[whatsupdoc]

I have some new G3 alpinist skins (this years) on some 178 skis. The medium size. With the taper in the skin and long rubber tail clip I was worried as well about coverage/grip but it hasn't been an issue. I don't notice any difference from the older alpinists.

I will say if your ski is at the longer end of the size range the exposed ptex will be greater so I guess the performance could depend on ski size.

[kootenayskier]

I've been using them for a few years now without issue. The rationale as I understand it is that with so many of us using rockered tails that aren't contacting the skin track, why not save the weight.

[neck beard]

My ski length is 2cm from being in the next longest skin category. There is too much ptex showing in/near the area of the ski that actually receives the most heel-weight, hence traction. Plus I think the new alloy triangle tail clip if a flawed design for anything but round tailed skis with just the right radius. It seems G3 have designed this skin for their own very rockered round tailed skis.

I am returning them for a refund. A pity, since I like the very thin backing and low volume pack space these skins have.

I've been using them for a few years now

Which possibly means you get test gear for free from G3? Don't be offended, but I am always very wary of opinions from those who get gear for free. Again, please don't be offended.

[swissiphic]

The rationale as I understand it is that with so many of us using rockered tails that aren't contacting the skin track, why not save the weight.

Coastie here ski in nwbc, lots of soloing. In my experience, having plush right to the tail of fully rockered skis (armada jj, rossi s7) and even flat tailed skis really aids in squeezing every ounce of potential traction while breaking trail in complex, steep and convoluted skin trails. More so with rockered tails, I've found that not having plush to the edge all the way to the tail while steep sidehilling sometimes results in sideways downhill tail slip on steep traverses; sometimes in fresh snow, more often in breakable crust conditions where the full edge of skis contact the snow. My mod has been to use old chunks of previous skins and added plush to the tail if stock skins were too short. Shoe goo the pieces together. There's probably a better way but worked as a quick fix. I don't care so much about weight, I care about making it to my destination without having curse spit and foam about the damned skins not gripping.

If the manufacturers are so concerned about weight, then why waste the plush on the center of the ski...based on my experience with split skins; for the rear third or quarter of the skins; a coupla strips that extend all the way to the tail with a cutout section in the middle would probably provide the best of both design goals. you'd have a 'chevron' type tractor tire grip section for sheer horsepower, plus the full edge plush for sidehilling grip along with the weight savings of less total material...all of which probably won't affect glide.

Sure they'd have to figure out a new tail clip, but two birds, one stone, if the present 'new' one is a p.o.s.

[kootenayskier]

From your pic it looks like your skins are too short for the skis. I heard they changed their sizing system recently. Mine fit like this:

I've not had any issues with the tail clip on my G3 Synapse 109s or my DPS Wailer 112RPs.

No I didn't pay for the skins, but I don't currently have any affiliation with G3. No offense taken, and your welcome to filter or ignore any of my opinions as you like.

[neck beard]

I forgot to thank you for your input, either way, I do appreciate it. Thanks.

Mine fit like this:

Yours offer much more tail coverage than mine. Yours also has a much different pattern printed on the skin, so perhaps the new-to-retail-market 15/16 model has different dimensions to yours?

My skins are the appropriate ones for my skis length according to the G3 spec chart. I suspect G3 are hoping to streamline production complexity by trying fit a wider range of ski lengths into one skin length by employing that very very long rubber tail strap... and then selling the concept as "weight saving/no need for skin at the tail". I wonder if these skins are going to be the Onyx of their skin range?

If anything I'd keep these shorty 15/16 LT skins for long distance low angle glacier touring. I think they serve a specialty role, but may not be general purpose.

[Tumeke Rodeo]

Good to find others as confused as me -

I've just bought a pair in medium to fit 180cm skis - same issue. 230mm of strap to end of ski, skins look like they'll fit down to a 163cm ski but spec is 168-184. doubt they'd even stretch to 184 as I'm on 3rd from last hole on the camlock. Will be checking the 184-199 length along with my email to G3 to see what they say. Seems like way too much strap to slide around, let alone minimal carpet under the ski.

Weird as I've only heard good reports about the G3's which is why I bought them.

[neck beard]

Good to find others as confused as me -

I've just bought a pair in medium to fit 180cm skis - same issue. 230mm of strap to end of ski, skins look like they'll fit down to a 163cm ski but spec is 168-184. doubt they'd even stretch to 184 as I'm on 3rd from last hole on the camlock. Will be checking the 184-199 length along with my email to G3 to see what they say. Seems like way too much strap to slide around, let alone minimal carpet under the ski.

Weird as I've only heard good reports about the G3's which is why I bought them.

My long strap is quite taught and doesn't slide around.

I have used the set up I photographed above for about 20 days on long easy skin tracks with grippy snow. I'll be honest, the glide is awesome, I love it. So far I will concede the benefit of the doubt, but not expecting much on difficult skin tracks/snow.

[Tumeke Rodeo]

Thanks for quick comment.
I asked G3 and they also got straight back to me which is great. Their response:

"You’re right on the money with that sizing. It bugs a lot of people at first glance but we’ve done extensive testing and believe the gains in weight savings and more importantly glide outweigh the negligible loss of traction. Looks like some people are still posting on that site even today and they’ve come around.
I think you’ve made the right choice and won’t regret it."

Although I remain skeptical I'll go with them. The stock tail clip doesnt look anything like your triangle one, I'm wondering if I'll need to go to their "twin tip connector kit" which looks more like the front attachment. Can't quite work out how to get an image in this response.....grrr...will see how they perform!

Cheers

My long strap is quite taught and doesn't slide around.

I have used the set up I photographed above for about 20 days on long easy skin tracks with grippy snow. I'll be honest, the glide is awesome, I love it. So far I will concede the benefit of the doubt, but not expecting much on difficult skin tracks/snow.

[XXX-er]

I replaced a broken strap for angle parking on his g3 and after I cut away the broken strap and thro on a replacement kit it was just barely long enough so I think you wana make sure you don't run out of length if you need to replace a strap later

[neck beard]

I have so many pairs of skins in my freezer that I try not to buy any new ones, but when I do, I'll likely get some of these short ones again, specially for winter powder skis. Keep in mind that I set very user-friendly skin tracks, and almost never use existing tracks, always make my own. So that means grip is much less of an issue anyway (existing tracks are slippery and most of the time too steep)

Thanks for quick comment.
The stock tail clip doesn't look anything like your triangle one, I'm wondering if I'll need to go to their "twin tip connector kit" which looks more like the front attachment.

The twin tip connector is their best device for rounded tails, especially if you use your ski tails as tools on the uptrack. Most of my skis unfortunately have the "design feature" of a square tail with a skin clip skin notch, which means the twin tips tails do not work well and I am forced to use shittier conventional tail clips.

ps, what I do not like about these LT skins is the tapered tail shape. When I fold the skin in half glue-on-glue, there is a large area of glue exposed on the skin tip. This is already picking up junk from my backpack. And no, I never use teh skin back. Defeats the purpose of compact lightweight skins. and Fiddly.

[Lindahl]

Try skin on glue? Thats my preferred method for day to day storage (glue on glue for long term storage in summer).

[neck beard]

I fold each skin in half, glue on glue. There is no other way for efficient handling in transitions and compact size in my pack.

[Lindahl]

FWIW, I find skin on glue way faster and packs just as small too. Doesn't seem to damage the plush as long as you don't leave it in a hot location where the glue can get gummy. Maybe you're doing or thinking about it differently?

Start at the tail and 'roll' (fold) it up as you rip the skin (works great on windy ridgelines), or if you rip skins with skis on, just fold it up all at once. When applying, simply put it on the tip and unroll as you apply the skin.

[mall walker]

^ I roll mine up (glue to skin) as well mid-tour, as long as you unroll before storing it indoors for the night it's always worked fine for me.

[XXX-er]

With the old fold over tip loops you got wiggle room If you need to replace a strap, with the alpinist that wiggle room is more than cut in half cuz you gotta shorten the skin by cutting off that bump at the skin/strap junction to instal a new strapkit SO make sure the skin will still be long enough.

I have used that alpinist clamp on a jj and the skin stays on well enough SO before buying a TT connector try the alpinist clamp to see if you really need to spend the extra $

Skin glue is like life, soon as you take it out of the wrapper...its dying

Learn to reglue/reheat for a tube of gold label its like 10$

[neck beard]

FWIW, I find skin on glue way faster and packs just as small too. Doesn't seem to damage the plush as long as you don't leave it in a hot location where the glue can get gummy. Maybe you're doing or thinking about it differently?

Start at the tail and 'roll' (fold) it up as you rip the skin (works great on windy ridgelines), or if you rip skins with skis on, just fold it up all at once. When applying, simpA ly put it on the tip and unroll as you apply the skin.

Thanks for explaining, but my way is faster. I rip skins about 400 times a year.

[~mikey b]

Learn to reglue/reheat for a tube of gold label its like 10$

Just figured out my new favorite way to reglue skins. I put mine outside on the hot driveway glue up in the sun and left them out there for an hour. Used a wide putty scraper to scrape out the old shitty dirty glue and then again to reapply fresh glue. One tube of gold label for 100mm x 190cm skins. FKNA that was easy.

Also I washed the plush with a brush and soap and water. Better grip and glide.

[Lindahl]

Thanks for explaining, but my way is faster. I rip skins about 400 times a year.

Skinoff!

Do you fuck with the glue in some way? Breaking the glue/glue bond alone takes longer than it does for me to apply the entire skin for most people (even using the ski as leverage). That and you have to be so much more precise when matching tip and tail than matching just the first fold.

[~mikey b]

Unpeeling: step on the folded over part of the tip, grab the tail, pull.

[AyoBeng]

Unpeeling: step on the folded over part of the tip, grab the tail, pull.

I've been doing this for years and I've never seen anyone else use this technique, I thought I was just weak.

[neck beard]

Skinoff!

Breaking the glue/glue bond alone takes longer than it does for me to apply the entire skin for most people

Ha! I was going to propose a skinoff. Funny.

I personally don't have a problem with breaking the glue-glue bond with my application technique, which is carefully engineered for speed and ease I'll show you one day. New or seldom used skin glue can be tougher to separate though.

[XXX-er]

Just figured out my new favorite way to reglue skins. I put mine outside on the hot driveway glue up in the sun and left them out there for an hour. Used a wide putty scraper to scrape out the old shitty dirty glue and then again to reapply fresh glue. One tube of gold label for 100mm x 190cm skins. FKNA that was easy.

Also I washed the plush with a brush and soap and water. Better grip and glide.

It never gets hot enough for that around here so I use a heat gun

Ok so you still need to iron that glue at high temp with some baking parchment?

[Lindahl]

Unpeeling: step on the folded over part of the tip, grab the tail, pull.

How does that work in powder? Don't you get snow all over the skin this way?