Tahoe Slides 1/14/2016, Coldstream(JT Holmes) and Tallac Corkscrew

[BoulderBreak]

New to the Tahoe area this season (and posting for the first time after lurking around for a while). Just wanted to thank everyone for this thread. This kind of analysis and discussion is invaluable.

[pajamas]

just noticed this thread. thanks for posting it Scralp. Oh, BTW Happy Birthday dude.

My wife and I got a lap near Nebelhorn/echo pass that Thursday. We rode the trees and found stable powder, but only dug hand pits down 1.5 feet. I'm glad I wasn't tempted into the open terrain that day because my guard was kinda down in retrospect.

What I find interesting is that it seems most were aware of the snowpack situation and "tried" to choose their terrain wisely, but fully underestimated the consequences. I think these protected east facing treed lines held that surface hoar, when bigger more exposed and gnarly lines probably got wind which eliminated it, which was reflected in many of SAC's evaluations and snowpit data.

I remember that sunday prior, SAC said it was actually considerable below treeline and moderate above. Don't think I've ever seen that type of advisory before.

[SchralphMacchio]

SAC said it was actually considerable below treeline and moderate above. Don't think I've ever seen that type of advisory before.

That quote is indicative of some of the themes of this thread ... what's "typical" vs. atypical for Tahoe snowpack when looking at the Danger Scale.

I no longer use the North American danger scale in my terrain evaluation, except if doing an ALPTRUTh assessment.

Working the "math" of the avalanche problem forces you to evaluate what type of problem it is, where it is, how big it is, and how likely you are to get it moving. If you do this kind of "long division" then you don't skip over the details that it was Considerable below treeline and Moderate above. You instead see that the Persistent Slab problem (which should automatically raise your eyebrows because that means the sucker isn't going away anytime soon and may not respond to simple observations/tests) is located BELOW treeline and not above, and that the problem layer is buried under 1.5' of consolidated snow which can be a deadly avalanche in certain types of terrain, and you look at ECT/PST test results on the SAC website that show you shitty structure or propensity for propagation. Based on that criteria lines with nasty terrain traps should be ruled out, while lower angle lines with clean runout zones and minimal terrain complexity could be manageable ... who cares if it's Moderate or Considerable???

[meter-man]

SM, solid thread - thank you. Powder published an "interview" with JT. http://www.powder.com/stories/the-sa...plE1Z0y5fZF.97

[TahoeJ]

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"Obviously something didn’t go right, but I’ve had plenty of close calls in my life and looked back and thought, ‘What was I thinking?’ I don’t have that feeling here. In this case, I look back at this whole incident and I don’t see a cardinal rule that was broken. No red flag that we ignored."

[snapt]

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"Obviously something didn’t go right, but I’ve had plenty of close calls in my life and looked back and thought, ‘What was I thinking?’ I don’t have that feeling here. In this case, I look back at this whole incident and I don’t see a cardinal rule that was broken. No red flag that we ignored."

The varying temperatures and wind loading became a topic of conversation.

We used my binoculars and observed evidence of avalanches that had occurred naturally.

On our third run we went to north-facing slopes. We decided against skiing some terrain that looked wind-loaded and started on a run the guides had skied recently.

They treat that terrain too much like its in bounds. If you've ever skied there you've heard them talk about how they use skier compaction a la a resort to help mitigate problems so they can ski that more complex north facing stuff when the conditions do not dictate it.

Glad JT's ok, furstrating when the red flags are there, the SAC says to avoid that specific terrain on that day, and get lulled into a false sense of security by a guide. Anybody with basic avy awareness would avoid that if accessed by their own power, throw a cat and some guides in the mix and suddenly basic decision making gets a lot more difficult unfortunately.