A Fellow Skiers Plunge into the Industry

[GPP33]

Building skis to test prototypes is one thing, building for retail production is quite another. And your designs will matter, a lot. You do not want to be trying to build brand loyalty while still working out how to make skis that don't fall apart. You might want to consider building your brand with an established production facility doing your production at first, and using your home shop to build your own protos to test shapes and construction. Molds and prototypes are one of the costliest parts of development. If you can reduce that by building your own protos, you'll do better than others.

^^^ This. RMU designed my sticks, Never Summer pressed them. Knowing they were pressed by one of the best board manufacturers in the industry certainly helped sway my decision and after skiing the shit out of them I'm glad they were. I know a lot of, and maybe all, the good indi companies use this model.

[TahoeJ]

Awesome. Good luck. Take your time with getting your product dialed in right. Ski the shit out of 'em and try to break them. The suggestion about using your own setup to press prototypes and having a full on shop produce the actual line is probably good advice... at least until you gain traction.

[three-six-oh]

Subscribed.

Great to see someone from Stevens getting after it! Best of luck bud!

[huckbucket]

Were I you, I would make this my hobby first and then ease into figuring out if this can be a viable business. A little extra time will help you figure out what you want and how to get there. In the meantime, experiment and have fun.

[Lindahl]

Starting your own company, especially a ski company, means lots of working and very little skiing. Good luck!

[Long duc dong]

Best of luck. There are lots of people trying to do what you are doing, but that does not mean you can't do it. I hope you succeed.

[USMC71]

That's pretty awesome actually! I've always tried to live by the "don't have any regrets" mindset. Hope you find success!

[Peanutbutter]

Just sell them for more than $333 and all will be well in the world.

I plan to... is there a reference here I'm missing?

Good for you, Jake! Best of luck. Do you have a website yet?

I don't yet; I'm building it right now. If you want to follow along and know what's new I am most active on my Instagram account: @hype_industries

Well wishes and good luck.

Curious whether you crunched the numbers to determine at what point you could actually turn a profit and what it would take to get there and all that entails? Craft a robust plan if you haven't and work your ass off to hit your checkpoints.

I have done my research and the business model is viable. Having a good plan with defined goals is good advice. And I definitely will bust ass; I can accept failure as long as the reason is something other than how hard I worked. If I fail because I didn't try my best then shame on me.

Good for you! Now's the time to do it, no mortgage, no kids, no wife..... Not saying those are bad but they all come with other responsibilities. No one who made millions doing what they love ever did it by pushing it off. Good luck, I proudly ski sticks made by a small local company who at one time were probably in just as far over their heads as you feel. Ship me a demo pair, I'll take care of mounting them for 22 designs and give you some real feedback

BTW, your pics promote your company pretty clearly. Hopefully the mods leave it up though since this is the essence of this site and what this community stands for.

Thanks for the encouragement! And your totally right; those responsibilities aren't a bad thing but right now I don't have to worry about anyone but me which is great because I can take risks and be okay with the consequences, either good or bad.

Don't breathe the fiberglass. For real.

This for sure.

I had never worked with fiberglass before making skis... I had no idea it was possible to itch so badly...

Isn't that the truth

Good for you kiddo! As was already said, get after this while your expenses are still really low and you'll have the best chance at success. Several other small ski companies started right here on this forum in a similar fashion and with the same passion, as far as I know they are happy with the result.

Thank you! I'm excited to see where I'll be at in a year or two! Hopefully right up there with those other brands.

yo jong read the stickies this aint just any forum
aint much moderation here
no one will delete your thread cause you decided to join the community and meet friends after ya decided to make tools the tribe uses.
not a bad first post/thread
good luck in your endevour

I am really liking that about this forum; everyone is cool and supportive. I am excited be apart of this community.

First things first: good on ya, a solid approach to getting started. Lots of initiative and drive involved just in pulling off what you have already. Some cautionary words, however....intended to help you avoid pitfalls other start up brands have struggled with:

Building skis to test prototypes is one thing, building for retail production is quite another. And your designs will matter, a lot. You do not want to be trying to build brand loyalty while still working out how to make skis that don't fall apart. You might want to consider building your brand with an established production facility doing your production at first, and using your home shop to build your own protos to test shapes and construction. Molds and prototypes are one of the costliest parts of development. If you can reduce that by building your own protos, you'll do better than others.

There is an outstanding new production shop in your area that is only building in small batches for indy brands, PM me and I can get you their contact info. Their production costs are very reasonable and quality is first rate. If we kept our brand running, it would have been our choice for production.

I hope you stick with it and continue to build smart. It's a great feeling to put skis on the feet of your fellow skiers that they love. Good luck!!!!

That's good advice. I sent you a PM.

^^^ This. RMU designed my sticks, Never Summer pressed them. Knowing they were pressed by one of the best board manufacturers in the industry certainly helped sway my decision and after skiing the shit out of them I'm glad they were. I know a lot of, and maybe all, the good indi companies use this model.

Awesome. Good luck. Take your time with getting your product dialed in right. Ski the shit out of 'em and try to break them. The suggestion about using your own setup to press prototypes and having a full on shop produce the actual line is probably good advice... at least until you gain traction.

GPP33 and TahoeJ, that might not be a bad direction to go in. I could see how it would increase consumer confidence in the brand knowing that the product is made by someone they already trust.

Were I you, I would make this my hobby first and then ease into figuring out if this can be a viable business. A little extra time will help you figure out what you want and how to get there. In the meantime, experiment and have fun.

Huckbucket, what I think you are getting at is that it would be wise to have a solid product before trying to make a business out of it. I agree with that; I can't risk damaging my reputation with quality issues, especially in the beginning. However, I am not trying to dip my toes in the water and feel if it's warm enough to jump in either; I have decided that making skis is what I want to do for a living and I am either going to sink or swim. To me, not getting all the way in isn't an option. If I go out, I'm going out swinging.

Starting your own company, especially a ski company, means lots of working and very little skiing. Good luck!

Ha! That is very true!

And to everyone else who replied that I didn't respond to directly: Thank you so much for the feedback and support! I didn't expect the amount of encouragement and kind words that I received. I really am excited to be apart of this community!

-Jake

[Tye 1on]

congrats on getting the first pair out and on the snow!

Don't breathe the fiberglass. For real.

This.
Exposure to that resin, even with all the PPE, is not something you want to do to yourself, especially at a young age.
I don't recall the specifics, but when I toured the Sego Ski factory, i believe they said the resin they were using is basically low-risk. Like maybe even no respirator/gloves low-risk, but i can't remember the details. Might be worth looking in to...
good luck!

[el hefe]

Nice work. One of my good buddies has been doing this for years, they are still going strong but he is still living with his parents. Good luck!

Your pics of the press and etc.... remind a lot of his shop.

[boarddad]

Not too long, absolutely did read! I shaped some surfboards in my college days but never enough to sell - still really worth it. What you are doing is beyond next level. Just curious, did you consider working for an established manufacturer to learn the trade or did you just dive in headlong with whatever advice and direction you could get?

Way to get after it. I can't imagine even getting to where you are now with all of the heavy lifting (literally and figuratively) that came along with it. Props to your parents and friends - they equally deserve it.

[skiitsbetter]

can I get a prodeal?

[Flyoverland Captive]

I plan to... is there a reference here I'm missing?

Do a forum search for "333" for a bunch of threads about how to do a ski company all wrong.

[flyman683]

To give more detail, other than being somewhat flippant, the PPE thing is hudge. You got some nice equipment in the shop. Spend the money on "real" respirators, filters, maybe find a woodworking scrubber and put in a low micron filter, etc.

Think of how the attic ceiling insulators dress in full tyvek with taped seams; might be overkill for normal operations but if doing production runs that's the kind of thing you should be thinking about. Read the msds sheets.

/safety engineering rant over

[TBS]

Good luck Jake!
This reminds me of a thread started 10-11 years ago by this guy iggyskier who chronicled construction of a press in his garage in Tacoma on this forum. Perhaps you've heard of ON3P?

You may want to pm him and see what advice he can offer. An internship might be a good idea as well.

I also recommend contract manufacturing.

[wstdeep]

Very cool, bottom line make a great product first and the rest will come. Make something less than great and your tainted forever.

[cverellen]

Awesome story

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Thanks for sharing, good luck and keep on posting. There is a treasure trove of advice, a lot of good,a little bad and some great skiers and builders. I enjoyed the read, can't wait to see how things go for you.

[Binky]

Good luck! Enjoyed reading and will certainly follow your progress like I have many others who have undertaken similar ventures in this forum. You found a tremendous resource. From your posts so far, it sounds like you will learn and make many friends here

[garyfromterrace]

Do a forum search for "333" for a bunch of threads about how to do a ski company all wrong.

Oh the horror, the inhumanity, the delam and breakage...

[Peanutbutter]

TGR tribe,
I hope you all had a killer 15 -16 ski season! (not that it’s over, there is still plenty of bomber touring out there to be had, if you’re willing to work for it I had a blast prototyping and skiing this year! Now that the season is over I am looking forward to next year.

I am currently deciding on which products I want to bring to market next year. I would love to hear some feedback from you guys about your skiing style and expectations out of a product to help me make the best skis. I want to reverse engineer this. Forget preconceived notions about what a ski is, how much it costs, what it’s made out of, how its delivered. Tell me what you want and I’ll see that it exists. Let’s tear the roof off the ski building game. Bonus: I’ll randomly pick one person who completes this questionnaire to receive a super-boss t-shirt! Thanks for your help!

1. What is your skiing style?

Butterer: This rider is determined to turn every bump, rollover and obstacle into a feature. They butter their toast before and after toasting it. Jibbing, billygoating, and shralping isn’t just a way to ski; it’s a way to live.

Ripper: Always down to send it one-hunnid the ripper is un-phased by variable snow conditions or sketchy landings. Their legs are made of hardened steel and their ACL’s seemingly of chairlift cable. From surgery. From the backflip they sent into a tree last year.

Charger: Experts at geometry, the Charger understands the fastest way between 2 points is a straight line. They have no interest in sight seeing or powder farming and firmly believe that turning is for the weak. AK spines and sketchy lines is their battle cry.

Combination of 2? 3? Other?

2. What percent of non-powder days do you spend in the park?
110%: “Outside of powder days? Every day is a park day. Bruh.”
70% – 100%: “I mean sometimes I like to try other lifts.
40% - 70%: “The park is fun, but so are side hits and hauling ass.”
0% -40%: “I could take it or leave it.”

3. How many pairs skis do you own and ride at least once a season?
1
2
3
4+


4. How long do you expect a pair of skis to last before they need to be replaced?
Less than 20 days
20 – 50 days
50 – 100 days
100 – 250 days
250 – 500 days
500 – INVINCEABLE

5. Do you do any touring? If so, how many of your ski days are in the backcountry?
None “Walk? you kidding me?”
None “Just haven’t tried it yet but I’m interested”
10% - 30%
30% - 50%
50% - 100%

6. Did you demo the last pair of skis you purchased before buying them? Why or why not?
Yes
Nah fam

7. Where do you like to mount your non-park skis?
Deadnuts center
0 – 3cm back
3 – 5cm back
5 – 7cm back
7+ cm back
I go with what’s recommended

8. I would be willing to pay more for a ski that has a no-questions-asked warranty policy?
Yes
No

9. What do you want to see in a ski? What’s important to you? Preconceived ideas aside; what would you want in the perfect ski?

10. (Optional) What is your height and weight?


Thanks for participating! I'm looking forward to hearing your responses!

[powdork]

I'll play
1. What is your skiing style?
In my mind, a ripper. in reality, somewhere below your definition of a charger.

2. What percent of non-powder days do you spend in the park?
O%

3. How many pairs skis do you own and ride at least once a season?
1



4. How long do you expect a pair of skis to last before they need to be replaced?
100 – 250 days


5. Do you do any touring? If so, how many of your ski days are in the backcountry?
This year, 8 days inbounds. A little over 100 backcountry

6. Did you demo the last pair of skis you purchased before buying them? Why or why not?
Demoed them to determine the optimal mounting point.

7. Where do you like to mount your non-park skis?
Depends on the ski. The Lhasa was a pintail so they were mounted more forward than the Kusala, which I think was about 1cm back

8. I would be willing to pay more for a ski that has a no-questions-asked warranty policy?
Yes

9. What do you want to see in a ski? What’s important to you? Preconceived ideas aside; what would you want in the perfect ski?
Lightweight, playful but still wants to straightline everything. Chicks dig it cuz it rarely wears underwear.

10. (Optional) What is your height and weight? 6'0 167


ps. I can't get them any more because the owner manufacturer became overly sensitive to, you guessed it, fiberglas.

[peds]

1. What is your skiing style?
Given the limited options, I'd have to say "charger", though it's a label I'm not entirely comfortable with.

2. What percent of non-powder days do you spend in the park?
0% -40%, emphasis on the 0%

3. How many pairs skis do you own and ride at least once a season?
4+

4. How long do you expect a pair of skis to last before they need to be replaced?
100 – 250 days

5. Do you do any touring? If so, how many of your ski days are in the backcountry?
50% - 100%

6. Did you demo the last pair of skis you purchased before buying them? Why or why not?
No, but similar skis from the same company.

7. Where do you like to mount your non-park skis?
I go with what’s recommended

8. I would be willing to pay more for a ski that has a no-questions-asked warranty policy?
No

9. What do you want to see in a ski? What’s important to you? Preconceived ideas aside; what would you want in the perfect ski?
Constructed purely out of locally-sourced plastics and upcycled metals reclaimed from aerospace industries, ideally low GI and high in fibre

10. (Optional) What is your height and weight?
5'10", 65kg


Best of luck with it all!

[steezybomber]

First off -- just started following you in IG. Some pretty cool shots. I'll send you a message so we can make the connect, ill be the guy with all mtn bike/skiing/car photos.

Second off, congrats man. your actually living the dream vs just thinking about it. i think a lot of people on here have given you some great advice, and some hard truths. dont let the inevitable set backs knock you down. you seem to know a lot about production and you will develop your own efficiencies as you learn. The process will inherently become more and more lean. Make sure you have the numbers figured out, because no matter how great the idea, if the finances dont mesh, it wont work.

Now is definitely the time to do it. Make sure your friends/family know your appreciation, sounds like a lot of fun, exciting, hard work ahead!

I am looking forward to demo-ing out some of your sticks in the near future! And I def beat the hell outta my skis. Anyway, on to your questions...i'll play too.

TGR tribe,
I hope you all had a killer 15 -16 ski season! (not that it’s over, there is still plenty of bomber touring out there to be had, if you’re willing to work for it I had a blast prototyping and skiing this year! Now that the season is over I am looking forward to next year.

I am currently deciding on which products I want to bring to market next year. I would love to hear some feedback from you guys about your skiing style and expectations out of a product to help me make the best skis. I want to reverse engineer this. Forget preconceived notions about what a ski is, how much it costs, what it’s made out of, how its delivered. Tell me what you want and I’ll see that it exists. Let’s tear the roof off the ski building game. Bonus: I’ll randomly pick one person who completes this questionnaire to receive a super-boss t-shirt! Thanks for your help!

1. Ripper

Butterer: This rider is determined to turn every bump, rollover and obstacle into a feature. They butter their toast before and after toasting it. Jibbing, billygoating, and shralping isn’t just a way to ski; it’s a way to live.

Ripper: Always down to send it one-hunnid the ripper is un-phased by variable snow conditions or sketchy landings. Their legs are made of hardened steel and their ACL’s seemingly of chairlift cable. From surgery. From the backflip they sent into a tree last year.

Charger: Experts at geometry, the Charger understands the fastest way between 2 points is a straight line. They have no interest in sight seeing or powder farming and firmly believe that turning is for the weak. AK spines and sketchy lines is their battle cry.

Combination of 2? 3? Other?

2. What percent of non-powder days do you spend in the park?

0% -40%: “I could take it or leave it.”

3. How many pairs skis do you own and ride at least once a season?

Own 4+, probably ski 3 pair consistently unless I do a random park day.


4. How long do you expect a pair of skis to last before they need to be replaced?
Depends on type of ski and intended usage. And if I ski shitty or not.

20 – 50 days
50 – 100 days



5. Do you do any touring? If so, how many of your ski days are in the backcountry?

10% - 30%


6. Did you demo the last pair of skis you purchased before buying them? Why or why not?

Nah fam: Knew who was making them, so knew I would love them based on brand and conversations with said person.

7. Where do you like to mount your non-park skis?

0 – 3cm back




8. I would be willing to pay more for a ski that has a no-questions-asked warranty policy?
Yes


9. What do you want to see in a ski? What’s important to you? Preconceived ideas aside; what would you want in the perfect ski?
I tend to prefer fatt(er) skis, but thats personal preference. I love a ski that I can ski (some) pow, ride switch, hit drops/jumps, and just rip/bombproof. I say this as an all round style. I have specific skis for real pow days, EC ice, park, backcountry etc. Perfect example is my ON3P 110 Jeffries. Absolutely rip, and sidewalls/construction are bomber. Love those damn skis.
10. (Optional) What is your height and weight?

5'11/193


Thanks for participating! I'm looking forward to hearing your responses!

[auvgeek]

1. What is your skiing style?
Combo of all of the above; probably closest to "ripper." But the fastest way between two points isn't a straight line because calculus.

2. What percent of non-powder days do you spend in the park?
Maybe 15%?

3. How many pairs skis do you own and ride at least once a season?
4-6, depending on the season. I haven't taken my 202 L138s out lately, which saddens me.

4. How long do you expect a pair of skis to last before they need to be replaced?
250-500 days for resort use; 100-250 for touring

5. Do you do any touring? If so, how many of your ski days are in the backcountry?
50%

6. Did you demo the last pair of skis you purchased before buying them? Why or why not?
No, demoing touring skis can be hard. Also: demoing custom skis is impossible.

7. Where do you like to mount your non-park skis?
Depends on the ski. In general, I like no further back than about -8 from true center.

8. I would be willing to pay more for a ski that has a no-questions-asked warranty policy?
Depends on the ski. If it was an UL touring ski that I loved and could abuse and have replaced again and again, then sure. Can't see that being a viable business option though.

9. What do you want to see in a ski? What’s important to you? Preconceived ideas aside; what would you want in the perfect ski?
There is no "perfect ski" for all conditions. The best you can do is either design a ski for specific conditions, figure out how to make something that doesn't suck in any conditions, or some combination of the two. Almost all skis I like have a specific use but aren't scary in other conditions.

But here's a specific answer: since PM Gear went out of business, nobody seems to make a ski that is 6-7#/pair, 90-95 waisted, 178-180 cm straight-tape pull with a 28+ m turn radius, < 3mm camber, and a touch of subtle tip rocker. Prefer it have a relatively progressive mount point with the sidecut centered around -6. You figure out how to make that and have it last 250 days and I'll throw down $1k.

10. (Optional) What is your height and weight?
5'11", 73kg

You should definitely try to intern with ON3P (or Praxis). Those guys know how to build bomber skis.