What powder touring ski?

[ClarkleberryFinn]

Best powder touring ski I've used is the 193 EHP. So much fun - incredibly stable AND incredible nimble, and such a special feel in powder. BUT, heavy, and could use a little more tip rocker (no tip dive, but the tips can tend to drive into transitions rather than riding over them). Also a bit on the long side for kick turns with my short and not so flexible legs.

From there I went to 184 Lotus120s, thinking they'd ski similarly, but be lighter and easier to kick turn. I hated them. Ok, definitely too short for me, especially with all that rocker, and they improved once I realised the shop that mounted them turned the RV on my Dynafit heels way down for some reason (meant when I tried to slash with the tail my boot/binding moved more than the ski). But I really didn't like the tail, which just didn't seem to want to slide out and drift/slash like the EHP. Turns out I like tail rocker, I guess.

Just received a pair of Down SD115s yesterday (last seasons, with carbon and no metal). I think they're going to be awesome. A lot like the EHP, but lighter (around 200g a ski lighter), a touch shorter, full but very subtle rocker (my EHPs had a touch of camber underfoot - the SD115 has a little longer and higher tip rocker and around the same amount of tail rocker). Still that nice straight shape which feels so frictionless in powder, fits into even skinny ski skin tracks, provides a ton of edge grip, and is as comfortable pointing down the fall line as drifting across it. Well, hopefully anyway! Stoked to ski them soon to find out!

PS They're on sale for €270: http://www.downskis.com/14-15-skis/showdown-115

[SWskier]

Looking to replace my delamming 196 Lhasas which have been my daily pow touring rig for 5 years. At 6'2" 230, I want a ski in the 195 range, ~110 underfoot, and under 10lbs pair. Not much out there in long lengths anymore it seems...

Anyone skiing the Whitedot Ranger R.108 Carbonlite? Or traditional build? Thoughts? Looking at the 195, 110 underfoot. Compare to 196 Lhasa? Looks comparable on paper.

[TAFKALVS]

I like touring on sub 110skis much more than I like skiing pow on 120+ skis.

QFT.

Question for 138 touring enthusiasts: Where do you tour, and how many miles and how much vert do you get on an average day? How many slope aspects do you ski on in a day? Does touring involve riding a lift? How many days do you actually tour on the 138s? Is it just 10/10 type days or is it any average mid-winter tour?

These are honest questions, not trying to be a dick. Just trying to understand what conditions you're using the 138 in.

[DGamms]

I want to echo the EHP comment. I ski the 186 cm with Vipecs and TLT6s. Such an awesome 3D snow ski, even in crappy variable conditions. Like ClarkleBerry though, I want the "tour layup" EHP at around 1800 gm in a 180-185 cm length. This was discussed before, but basically a skinny Kusala or damp carbon EHP. I'm 5'9" and the Showdown 115 at 190cm length is a little too long for me. If they made that in a 182 cm I'd probably buy it. For me, the unicorn wideish touring ski would be:

- Dims about 130-115-125. probably makes a 30ish meter radius
- EHP shape and rocker profile (bullet nose, flat underfoot, minimal splay)
- length 180-185 cm
- weighs around 1800 gm
- good damping for the weight
- light colored top sheet

Does anyone company make this ski?

[Lindahl]

Best powder touring ski I've used is the 193 EHP. So much fun - incredibly stable AND incredible nimble, and such a special feel in powder. BUT, heavy, and could use a little more tip rocker (no tip dive, but the tips can tend to drive into transitions rather than riding over them). Also a bit on the long side for kick turns with my short and not so flexible legs.

From there I went to 184 Lotus120s, thinking they'd ski similarly, but be lighter and easier to kick turn. I hated them. Ok, definitely too short for me, especially with all that rocker, and they improved once I realised the shop that mounted them turned the RV on my Dynafit heels way down for some reason (meant when I tried to slash with the tail my boot/binding moved more than the ski). But I really didn't like the tail, which just didn't seem to want to slide out and drift/slash like the EHP. Turns out I like tail rocker, I guess.

Just received a pair of Down SD115s yesterday (last seasons, with carbon and no metal). I think they're going to be awesome. A lot like the EHP, but lighter (around 200g a ski lighter), a touch shorter, full but very subtle rocker (my EHPs had a touch of camber underfoot - the SD115 has a little longer and higher tip rocker and around the same amount of tail rocker). Still that nice straight shape which feels so frictionless in powder, fits into even skinny ski skin tracks, provides a ton of edge grip, and is as comfortable pointing down the fall line as drifting across it. Well, hopefully anyway! Stoked to ski them soon to find out!

PS They're on sale for €270: http://www.downskis.com/14-15-skis/showdown-115

Yup. That frictionless feeling in pow is tough to beat. Nimble, fast and stable. Also does incredibly well on the firmer stuff via controlled drifts down the fall line. Dial-a-speed.

[DGamms]

A full rocker, veneer topsheet Praxis GPO 182 cm in the UL layup might be pretty close... But I've never seen a GPO in person or skied Praxis, so I'm not sure of the GPO shape and tip/tail splay, or how damp the UL layup would end feeling ...

[Lindahl]

I want to echo the EHP comment. I ski the 186 cm with Vipecs and TLT6s. Such an awesome 3D snow ski, even in crappy variable conditions. Like ClarkleBerry though, I want the "tour layup" EHP at around 1800 gm in a 180-185 cm length. This was discussed before, but basically a skinny Kusala or damp carbon EHP. I'm 5'9" and the Showdown 115 at 190cm length is a little too long for me. If they made that in a 182 cm I'd probably buy it. For me, the unicorn wideish touring ski would be:

- Dims about 130-115-125. probably makes a 30ish meter radius
- EHP shape and rocker profile (bullet nose, flat underfoot, minimal splay)
- length 180-185 cm
- weighs around 1800 gm
- good damping for the weight
- light colored top sheet

Does anyone company make this ski?

The YW8/SD115 is the closest you can get. They need to dial in a smoother and more subtle rocker profile though.

It makes a killer resort ski too, btw. I'd probably go down to 110 underfoot though. Both touring and resort.

The Kusala/Renegade is the way to go for lift assisted or really charging, though.

Kidwoo got the Wootest built. I wonder if we can get a Praxis build of this. Down skis is sooooo close already to nailing it though.

[bodywhomper]

Question for 138 touring enthusiasts: Where do you tour, and how many miles and how much vert do you get on an average day? How many slope aspects do you ski on in a day? Does touring involve riding a lift? How many days do you actually tour on the 138s? Is it just 10/10 type days or is it any average mid-winter tour?

These are honest questions, not trying to be a dick. Just trying to understand what conditions you're using the 138 in.

-138 touring in the tahoe area and western slope of the sierra (some relatively low elevation zones)
-don't know mileage but some areas have approach on fs service roads used by sled
-tours are typically a few hours to a little over a half-day. i tour mid-week during my work week
-slope aspects depends on location, but i intentionally focus on 3d snow
-no lift riding to touring on the 138's
-the last banner year we had in the sierra (10/11), i toured about 40 days on the 138's (it was a really good year!) much less the past few years.
-snow conditions where i pull them out: 3d snow from very deep light snow to high water content fresh snow/sludge to a handful of inches that's fallen in the past few days. i won't pull them out when we've had a very cold and windy storm that was proceeded by a large freeze thaw cycle.

[adrenalated]

I own both EHPs and Protests, and honestly they ski REALLY similarly in untracked snow despite the differences in shape. The Wootest might be a very, very good option for those that want a lighter, skinnier EHP.

[auvgeek]

Looking to replace my delamming 196 Lhasas which have been my daily pow touring rig for 5 years. At 6'2" 230, I want a ski in the 195 range, ~110 underfoot, and under 10lbs pair. Not much out there in long lengths anymore it seems...

194 Praxis Freeride? 196 Praxis WooTest? 197 DPS L120 sp?

[SWskier]

194 Praxis Freeride? 196 Praxis WooTest? 197 DPS L120 sp?

Don't really want to tour on 120 as a daily.

Freeride seems ok, but hoping for something with a tad looser tail. Maybe my assumptions of this ski are wrong?

Wootest is in the running and may go that route next custom sale...

The 196 lhasa has been the perfect ski for me, but they are dying. I'm going to limp them along as long as I can.

[TAFKALVS]

Don't really want to tour on 120 as a daily.

Freeride seems ok, but hoping for something with a tad looser tail. Maybe my assumptions of this ski are wrong?

Wootest is in the running and may go that route next custom sale...

The 196 lhasa has been the perfect ski for me, but they are dying. I'm going to limp them along as long as I can.

Maybe try to find another pair of 196s with lower miles or newer build date?

[North]

Best powder touring ski I've used is the 193 EHP. So much fun - incredibly stable AND incredible nimble, and such a special feel in powder. BUT, heavy

Yup

I want the "tour layup" EHP at around 1800 gm in a 180-185 cm length. This was discussed before, but basically a skinny Kusala or damp carbon EHP.

Double Yup

I'm in the same boat - been looking for a more tour-friendly EHP for ages.

If I win the lottery, I'm going to head down to Folsom, and hand them my 186 Pilsner EHP with the following instructions:
"Make this shape"
"Make it lighter"

Maybe Praxis can do the same without lottery winnings.....

The YW8/SD115 is the closest you can get. They need to dial in a smoother and more subtle rocker profile though.

Interested to hear more direct SD115/EHP comparisons. I own last year's C102, and was pretty bummed when they showed up with significantly more rocker than I expected; I bet SD115s are similar, which is the sole reason I didn't order a pair in the pre-sale. Too early to make a conclusion, but thus far the C102s area a fun ski in the soft, TBD in firm, but I think I'd prefer less rocker ala EHP.

[#######]

Someone else nailed it when they said that I probably hadn't looked at Voile since the Mtn Surf, but I'm starting to like the looks of the Charger or the V8. Unlike the 112RP tour, I'm not really reading bad reviews. It looks like the Voile store here in SLC demo's as well.

http://www.voile.com/voile-service-center.html

[Danny Noonan]

I think I have to quadruple echo the EHP as a touring set up favourite. I had both the 186 and 193. The shape was downright perfect and though a bit long in the 193 for big vert it was one of my favourite powder skis ever for that porpoise like skiing where it skims right below that snow surface. So fun. I found the 186 too short and loose for my likings in comparison and I sold it. But a lighter, version of that 193 in like a 189 (being nitpicky now) would be a dream ski. It did so much, so well in the backcountry

[SiSt]

Yup



Double Yup

I'm in the same boat - been looking for a more tour-friendly EHP for ages.

If I win the lottery, I'm going to head down to Folsom, and hand them my 186 Pilsner EHP with the following instructions:
"Make this shape"
"Make it lighter"

Maybe Praxis can do the same without lottery winnings.....



Interested to hear more direct SD115/EHP comparisons. I own last year's C102, and was pretty bummed when they showed up with significantly more rocker than I expected; I bet SD115s are similar, which is the sole reason I didn't order a pair in the pre-sale. Too early to make a conclusion, but thus far the C102s area a fun ski in the soft, TBD in firm, but I think I'd prefer less rocker ala EHP.

SD115 14/15 on the left, proto 114 on the right for comparison (same rocker as your 102). The full rev cavity is pretty much flat under foot, and the rise is about the same height as the 114 when that is left cambered. Decambering the 114 lifts the tip by about a cm, and lengthens the rocker into the ski by an other 10cm or so.

[DGamms]

Just checked the Praxis site, and it looks like the Wootest is only available as a custom build now. If the 187 Wootest could be built flat underfoot (not cambered as it is now), then the other dimensions look pretty close. Still, seemed like the Wootest got mixed reviews even on TGR...

SiSt, any chance Down would make the Showdown 115 in a smaller length, something like 181-184 cm? The SD 115 with a little more of a bullet nose shape, a little less tip rocker splay, and a lighter colored top sheet in a 183 cm would be a winner for me. I know, first world problems...

[SiSt]

Just checked the Praxis site, and it looks like the Wootest is only available as a custom build now. If the 187 Wootest could be built flat underfoot (not cambered as it is now), then the other dimensions look pretty close. Still, seemed like the Wootest got mixed reviews even on TGR...

SiSt, any chance Down would make the Showdown 115 in a smaller length, something like 181-184 cm? The SD 115 with a little more of a bullet nose shape, a little less tip rocker splay, and a lighter colored top sheet in a 183 cm would be a winner for me. I know, first world problems...

It's on the block for 16/17, not 100% yet, but likely, probably in a slightly narrower waist, a touch longer than your ideal, but white topsheet and lightweight construction.

[North]

Thanks for posting that rocker shot SiSt. 14/15 looks closer to what I typically prefer, and I may have to get on a pair eventually. Even given my quibbles about the profile on the C102s, the build quality is great. You guys make some nice stuff.

Is the 114 proto the "slightly narrower" hypothetical 16/17 ski you're referencing? Safe to assume you'll use the more exaggerated rocker profile shown in the photo?

[Lindahl]

It's on the block for 16/17, not 100% yet, but likely, probably in a slightly narrower waist, a touch longer than your ideal, but white topsheet and lightweight construction.

Sweet. What weight do you guys think you can hit?

On that kind of ski, it'd really be only a soft snow ski, imo, so seeing it with full reverse camber like the old SD115 would be perfect.

The SD115M and YW8 102 with the rocker profiles they have is ideal since hard snow versatility is necessary (resort ski and skinny ski, respectively).

[neck beard]

Freeride seems ok, but hoping for something with a tad looser tail. Maybe my assumptions of this ski are wrong?

Praxis BC. Though I think it has more camber, if that matters.

[SiSt]

Sweet. What weight do you guys think you can hit?

On that kind of ski, it'd really be only a soft snow ski, imo, so seeing it with full reverse camber like the old SD115 would be perfect.

The SD115M and YW8 102 with the rocker profiles they have is ideal since hard snow versatility is necessary (resort ski and skinny ski, respectively).

We're looking at specs in between the 102/179 and 115/190, weight should be about 1600-1650g in the current layup.

Thanks for the rocker suggestion, we have been thinking of a shorter rockered section, but will likely have a minimal amount of camber, not full reverse.

[SWskier]

Praxis BC. Though I think it has more camber, if that matters.

Nah, too short.

I'm 6'2" 230. And drive skis. Any modern ski 190 or less feels like a snowblade.

Leaning pretty hard toward the Whitedot r.108

[kootenayskier]

QFT.

Question for 138 touring enthusiasts: Where do you tour, and how many miles and how much vert do you get on an average day? How many slope aspects do you ski on in a day? Does touring involve riding a lift? How many days do you actually tour on the 138s? Is it just 10/10 type days or is it any average mid-winter tour?

These are honest questions, not trying to be a dick. Just trying to understand what conditions you're using the 138 in.

I found my 138s only worked as a cat/heli skiing ski. Scary in anything other than powder, and (mounted with Dynafits) not worth the absurd amount of effort to tour on. In the conditions on which they shine (the steepest and deepest of days) my 110-112 underfoot skis worked almost as well.

[skifishbum]

slackcountry tour a bit on the 138's hurts my hip flexors and a lot of ski to skin w/ w/out free easy vert
same w/ my splatulas thinkin bout ditchin the dukes on those
kusalas float and handle 3d snow almost as well and skin much better
lotus 120s w/ atk freeraiders tour the best but don't ski crusts and funks nearly as well as kusalas or lhasas