remedy/trance/sb5c or other?

**grinch** · 06-29-2016, 09:46 AM

If your 8 year old xt brakes were the 4 pots with the braided lines. Those things were are awesome. Never understand why they stopped making those . Maybe too good other than the lines scraped the paint off your bike. They should have just put a protective coating on the braided lines. I've felt some good avids and had some old juicys that worked without problems and a few friends that had good codes. Their quality control seems very inconsistent

**SchralphMacchio** · 06-29-2016, 10:05 AM

If you are feeling awkward and tentative on an XC ride, I'd double-check your suspension setup at the same time you get that stem swapped out (which should be done ASAP). It could be that you are not running enough sag in your fork and/or shock, or that your damping and compression settings are weird. The rear linkage design allows you to run your shock in full Descend/Open mode 100% of the time. It might be worth going on a ride with someone from the shop or someone who knows suspensions pretty well, so that you can make the proper adjustments in real time. It may also be very possible that your shock or fork is a dud; it happens once in a while - having someone who knows suspensions pretty well might help hone in on what's going on.

Did you ever figure out what the shock is - the original kit FOX CTD, or the newer FOX DPS EVOL, or something else? The CTDs were great for light weight and climbing but pretty harsh under high speed chatter and not a great initial stroke ... many people had setup challenges with that shock. You see a lot of CTD complaints online but general love for the DPS EVOL (and the Monarch Debonair RT3, when it comes to inline air shocks at least).

Also you should check to see if your crank length is the same as your old bike. You mentioned you have longer legs, I wonder if your crankarms went from 175 to 170 and you are missing that extra torque (or vice versa, and you are missing that extra cadence). Crank length can make a big difference in how your legs feel during and after a ride.

I'm sorry that you are having setup issues on this bike. It would be nice if buying a bike was like buying a car: you just sit in it, test drive, and you are good to go ... But for a full suspension bike to work well every little thing needs to be set up 100% in tune with your body ... cranks, saddle and saddle position, stem, bars, suspension pressure, suspension response settings, gear ratio, etc.

It may be that the 5c is ultimately not the platform for you or your needs; but I don't think we've gotten to the point where you can determine that yet, because there are so many basic setup issues that don't sound properly dialed in yet.

No comment on SRAM Guide brakes. You may feel a slight loss of braking torque going from 26" to 27" if using same rotor size. I'm running current gen XT so I have no experience or advice.

What is your issue with the SRAM 1x? Most of us have no issues other than backpedaling, and I'm convinced that in almost all cases adjustments to the limit screws and cable tension can get you to a clean backpedal from the big cog.

**goldenboy** · 06-29-2016, 12:41 PM

Yeah, it's a DPS shock. The suspension is definitely way off, and that might be half my battle. I was thinking the same thing in terms of getting a suspension geek to ride with me.

This bike has bigger rotors- it's the modulation from the Shimanos that I miss. The guides feel really on/off in comparison.

The 1x is a minor annoyance. It's pretty easy to outpedal the current ratio, but I want the 28 for climbing around here. Oh well. I mostly miss the ability to use my trigger finger to shift like I could on Shimano. I've missed a few shifts trying to do that. 1x sure is tight and quiet though.

**North** · 06-29-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

If you are feeling awkward and tentative on an XC ride, I'd double-check your suspension setup.

+1

My previously 'dialed' Remedy was feeling off after dropping down from an 80mm to a 50mm stem. Took me a couple rides to get it back to where I like it, and the eventual fix was 'slowing down' the rebound by upping the damping a few clicks. This is generally consistent with basic suspension theory - an overly fast rebound makes the bike feel skittish and lose traction in corners (at high lean angles).

It was a bit of an eye-opener for me how much weight distribution can affect suspension performance.

I'd focus on getting the suspension right, and iterate from there.

**Lindahl** · 06-29-2016, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

A dropper will definitely help getting used to a bike with slacker geometry. With the full seat height behind you it's a little scary to start committing hard to your front wheel, so having that seat out or your way is kind of reassuring should you feel the need to get back quickly. Plus you can get low and back while still pressing forward on your bars when needed, finding your balance point in certain situations without sacrificing traction.

I find a dropper to be more useful in corners. I can usually get behind the bike into proper body position for a quick tech section* even if I can't get the seat down, but proper body position for hard cornering is pretty much impossible, most of the time, when the seat is up.

*downhilling and jumps are different though - especially jumps, since the body motion is necessarily fluid

**TahoeJ** · 07-01-2016, 04:32 PM

^^ Yep, agree 100%. My cornering improved dramatically with a dropper. Let's you tilt the bike more.

**goldenboy** · 07-06-2016, 08:02 PM

Well, I dropped the psi in both the shocks and it rides a bit better. Went to a 40 stem, too.

I still can't track a line to save my life. I feel like I'm driving a truck with a trailer, and I really miss having a bike that I could throw around.

**simple** · 07-07-2016, 10:25 AM

Thank God you didn't go to a 29er Frank. They can really feel like driving a truck through corners.

**simple** · 07-07-2016, 10:27 AM

Btw fox suspension sucks balls. It's the reason they have to change their internal design every two years.

**SchralphMacchio** · 07-07-2016, 11:13 AM

Sounds like progress ... but also sounds like you're still missing a short cockpit layout, having gone from smaller frames to a more modern frame.

I think the "trailer truck" comparison is coming from the transition to a short cockpit 26" bike to a longer reach, longer wheelbase frame with 27.5 wheels. You can try to adapt by riding with your body much more forward and your arms more square as opposed to trying to drive from the saddle and expecting snappy steering response. For better or worse, most of the major frame builders today are going to this kind of layout for trail bikes.

Curious, have you ridden other 27.5 trail bikes?

What's funny is that I'm a similar size to you (5' 8") and I have the opposite complaint about my 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson CC Medium ... it feels more like a BMX that can be flung around and isn't "long enough" for high speed point-and-shoot riding, and it feels cramped with anything shorter than a 70mm stem. Seems like our ideal solutions would be to work out a frame trade

(FWIW, Santa Cruz "fixed" this in their 2016 update by lengthening the reach by 1" and slackening the head tube, which is why I said above that most major frame builders are going to a longer layout)

**muted** · 07-07-2016, 12:22 PM

I think you bought the wrong bike if it still feels shitty. I can't say mine feels playful like a 26" though.

I would like to thank whoever mentioned releasing some PSI from the shocks. When I read that I realized that might help me, and it did. Cornering went from good to great.

**goldenboy** · 07-09-2016, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by simple

Thank God you didn't go to a 29er Frank. They can really feel like driving a truck through corners.

Yeah, that's why 29ers weren't even a consideration.

Schralph- Yeah, I've been trying to modernize my position on the bike and keep my elbows out and all that. Although yesterday's ride felt the best yet and I consciously tried to forget all that and just ride. I'm still at least 10-20% slower descending right now and it doesn't help that I've already had one good crash that I can't imagine would have happened on the old bike where it did.

No, I have not ridden any other 27.5 bikes for anything other than short test rides. I probably should have gotten last year's Bronson, I liked my wife's Roubion when I rode it. Then again, I've talked to a lot of people that are really good riders who said it took them months or even an entire season before they started to like their new school bikes.

**SchralphMacchio** · 07-11-2016, 09:36 AM

So just for context, I went from my old school 26" to my modern 26" almost exactly a year ago (July 4 was my first ride). Within the first month I had a couple of weird crashes. I'd say they were both about 50% due to setup and 50% due to riding position. I spent a lot of time that first month catching up and learning about updated suspension platforms, suspension settings, body positioning, etc. The funny thing is that on my first ride I could immediately tell that this bike was way faster than my last one and had worlds more potential, but I could also tell that I wasn't fully dialed in on how to drive it ... it took me 2 months to get everything sorted out.

Since those first 2-3 months last summer, I've gotten so used it modern geo that now I'm complaining about the lack of progressive frame qualities in my current Bronson. C'est la vie.

Re: 27.5, I asked because the BB height and center of gravity height above 26" bikes (generally speaking) seemed really noticeable to me. It changes how you fling the bike around for sure. Some of the changes in bike feel you are still getting used to may not have anything to do with the specifics of the SB5c geometry.

Re: descending speed: are you actually timing yourself, or are you feeling like you are slower descending? I don't time anything but I conjecture about times when I'm riding really smooth and it feels like I'm riding slow, but I wonder if I'm actually riding fairly fast and it just feels slow because I've got my positioning, suspension, and the trail all working together well.

You haven't reported back on how you've settled into the stack height with your steer tube spacers, and whether you've ridden with someone who knows suspension yet. Keep at it!

**zion zig zag** · 07-11-2016, 10:15 AM

I have noticed, through timing, that how a ride "feels" has zero relation to actual speed and overall time.

**muted** · 07-11-2016, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I have noticed, through timing, that how a ride "feels" has zero relation to actual speed and overall time.

Yeah, Strava can be extremely inaccurate though. Are you using a different app?

**zion zig zag** · 07-11-2016, 12:57 PM

No. I hadn't really taken that into account, makes sense though.

**grskier** · 07-11-2016, 03:40 PM

smooth is fast a lot of the time, translates to skiing as well.

**simple** · 07-11-2016, 03:48 PM

But Huck to flat can be even faster. The lines I'm seeing the pro guys do at the enduro races are awesome. Wheels off the ground so much more than us mortals.

**m86552** · 07-24-2016, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

If you are feeling awkward and tentative on an XC ride, I'd double-check your suspension setup at the same time you get that stem swapped out (which should be done ASAP). It could be that you are not running enough sag in your fork and/or shock, or that your damping and compression settings are weird. The rear linkage design allows you to run your shock in full Descend/Open mode 100% of the time. It might be worth going on a ride with someone from the shop or someone who knows suspensions pretty well, so that you can make the proper adjustments in real time. It may also be very possible that your shock or fork is a dud; it happens once in a while - having someone who knows suspensions pretty well might help hone in on what's going on.

Did you ever figure out what the shock is - the original kit FOX CTD, or the newer FOX DPS EVOL, or something else? The CTDs were great for light weight and climbing but pretty harsh under high speed chatter and not a great initial stroke ... many people had setup challenges with that shock. You see a lot of CTD complaints online but general love for the DPS EVOL (and the Monarch Debonair RT3, when it comes to inline air shocks at least).

Also you should check to see if your crank length is the same as your old bike. You mentioned you have longer legs, I wonder if your crankarms went from 175 to 170 and you are missing that extra torque (or vice versa, and you are missing that extra cadence). Crank length can make a big difference in how your legs feel during and after a ride.

I'm sorry that you are having setup issues on this bike. It would be nice if buying a bike was like buying a car: you just sit in it, test drive, and you are good to go ... But for a full suspension bike to work well every little thing needs to be set up 100% in tune with your body ... cranks, saddle and saddle position, stem, bars, suspension pressure, suspension response settings, gear ratio, etc.

It may be that the 5c is ultimately not the platform for you or your needs; but I don't think we've gotten to the point where you can determine that yet, because there are so many basic setup issues that don't sound properly dialed in yet.

No comment on SRAM Guide brakes. You may feel a slight loss of braking torque going from 26" to 27" if using same rotor size. I'm running current gen XT so I have no experience or advice.

What is your issue with the SRAM 1x? Most of us have no issues other than backpedaling, and I'm convinced that in almost all cases adjustments to the limit screws and cable tension can get you to a clean backpedal from the big cog.

Best way to become a better rider? Best videos? Reading? School, teacher, etc.?
Thank you.

**m86552** · 07-24-2016, 10:48 AM

I am a old cross country racer that now rides a KTM 300XC Moto. 6' 3/4" tall 172 pounds.
ride mostly Northern Virginia. West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Tennessee when I have time. I also enjoy pedaling up the mountains down the mountains, true singletrack switchbacks and all surfaces/terrain.

29rs feel better to me. I ordered a 2016 Trek Remedy 9.8 29r and a Yeti SB5.5c, I need to pick something not 2 bikes. One guy at Competitive cyclists sold me the Yeti another guy there tells me I should buy the Ellsworth Epiphany. I have never done jumps and drops before on a bicycle but have tried some on demo bikes. It is something I find challenging and new. But exercise and climbing is also important for me also I think. I do road bicycle also so there is that.

I do not have time to drive hours away to downhill resorts because my time is going more and more to repaying my parents for changing my diapers and raising me. No the circle is coming to me changing their diapers/taking care of them.

I demoed the 27.5 and plus models bikes and initially I like 29r bikes. A lot of the bikes seem to be pedal and crank arm smashers. I think it is due to bottom brackets. Long low and slack geometry seems to have gone too far on a lot of the bikes. I find they seem to be non-peddling bikes.
Demos I have ridden: 2017 ibis HD3, ibis mojo3, ibis Ripley LS, 2017 trek 9.8 fuel Ex in the 27 5+ version-big peddle smasher! specialized camber sworks-did not like that, specialized stumpjumper didn't like that, 2015 Trek 8 fuel EX, and 15 Remedy 8. They were all supposedly set up for me and my weight, but had too many pedal strikes. I looked at the crank arms of a number of the bikes I test rode they all had very scarred up crank arm ends due to smashing into the rocks and things as far as I could deduce. I think maybe a BB height of 13.5 or 13.25 inches may be a need for me to be able to have the ability to pedal the bike's uphill without smashing my pedals and crank arms into every little thing. Even on flat surfaces I seem to smash pedals/crank arms into everything with these new bikes.
I also like the idea of:
Boost/110/148
threaded BB

I am wondering if the Ellsworth Epihany is the best answer or not? Is it dated and to twitchy a design as a all-around bike? That is not even taking into consideration build quality and customer service. i have read or heard a lot of bad things about Ellsworth and Yeti in the last so many years.

I try to support a good local bike shop or dealer when possible. I tried to buy the 2017 29r Fuel Ex and 2016 29 9.8 Remedy from The Bike Lane here in Northern Northern Virginia but for some reason he didn't want to sell it to me and my friend who wants to buy a 29r also. I know this sounds crazy! 2 high end $$$$ bikes and the owner does not want to sell them. I guess the bike biz is a lot more profitable than we thought. This is why I bought the Remedy 9.8 from the Trek superstore in California and the Yeti SB5.5c from C.C. Again I need to cancel one or both of my purchases.
I am tired of spending days and weeks trying to figure it all out!! I am getting burned out!!
Thank you for reading my rant.
Thank you for any constructive wisdom you may offer.

**nickwm21** · 07-24-2016, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by grskier

smooth is fast a lot of the time, translates to skiing as well.

Like on Top Gear. The celebs looked the slowest were always quick.

**SchralphMacchio** · 08-02-2016, 09:24 AM

GB, what's the latest?

I was thinking about your thread over the weekend. I just put an -1 angleset in my Bronson which helped the handling a lot, and I'm about to shorten my fork by 10mm. But the entire weekend I couldn't help but think, 'man, I really miss my 26" bike!' And that reminded me of this thread ... Unlike your situation, my 26" bike had that really progressive geometry, but that subtle difference in center of gravity height is still getting to me on my ride.

I wonder if you've been able to get your ride dialed in any better via the stem, sag and riding adjustments?

**goldenboy** · 08-03-2016, 07:49 PM

It's getting better, but I wouldn't say that I love the bike. It's fun on trails that are straighter and have a lot of rocks and roots, like old-school DH trails. On the tighter twistier stuff that I really like? Meh, it just doesn't want to do that.

I've figured out the climbing. Instead of trying to pick a line through a rock garden, I just go straight and engage my core muscles and somehow it works surprisingly well. I've gotten used to the 1x, it has some limitations but overall it's an improvement.

The Guide brakes stopped working completely this week, so that was fun. Something to do with the fitting...

The LBS added spacers to the fork yesterday. I can bottom it out, but it feels almost like a rigid fork at slow speeds and on small bumps. I need more time to figure out if the spacers helped much.

One thing I have been noticing- I think everyone on these new bikes have trouble turning. Trails that have stayed the same for the last 20 years have turns that keep getting wider and wider. I see it everywhere. It's cracking me up- everyone blows through the corners these days, so the trail changes...

**radam** · 08-04-2016, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by goldenboy

The LBS added spacers to the fork yesterday. I can bottom it out, but it feels almost like a rigid fork at slow speeds and on small bumps. I need more time to figure out if the spacers helped much.

Thats basically the opposite of what should happen if you add spacers or bottomless tokens. More spacers should allow the fork to be supple off the top but the spring rate should ramp up through the stroke and be more difficult to bottom out.

**goldenboy** · 08-04-2016, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by radam

Thats basically the opposite of what should happen if you add spacers or bottomless tokens. More spacers should allow the fork to be supple off the top but the spring rate should ramp up through the stroke and be more difficult to bottom out.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was describing how it had been feeling, so hopefully the spacers do exactly what you describe. Haven't had enough miles to decide if the spacers are fixing it.