Killington is owned by morons

[BGSTi_403]

They race in Bansko fucking Bulgaria every year

Sure do - for a number of years too. But a couple of things:

- Bansko has 5,000'+of lift serviced vert
- Race course starts at around 9,000' in elevation
- Race happens in March, when they have had 4 months to accumulate / produce snow

Which brings me to a question: in Bansko, they usually close the race course for up to 6 weeks before the race to shape, freeze, groom, etc the base which is 5'+

In some years, Kmart may only get 1 week of snowmaking weather prior to Thanksgiving, and even with a big snowmaking push every year, they barely go top-to-bottom by then.

How are they going to guarantee the snow cover is up to code for this event?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Sure do - for a number of years too. But a couple of things:

- Bansko has 5,000'+of lift serviced vert
- Race course starts at around 9,000' in elevation
- Race happens in March, when they have had 4 months to accumulate / produce snow

And despite all that sometimes conditions still suck! But I was pointing to Bansko in response to Benny's claim that the WC people will be appalled by slovenly little Killington. I could well be wrong, but based on the little that I know about Bulgaria I assumed Bansko wouldn't be particularly ritzy.

Which brings me to a question: in Bansko, they usually close the race course for up to 6 weeks before the race to shape, freeze, groom, etc the base which is 5'+

In some years, Kmart may only get 1 week of snowmaking weather prior to Thanksgiving, and even with a big snowmaking push every year, they barely go top-to-bottom by then.

How are they going to guarantee the snow cover is up to code for this event?

I've skied at Killington probably 15 times right around Thanksgiving (day before or day or two after, usually). I've also skied Killington as early as October 5 or 6th (way back when they used to do that regularly if it got cold). At Thanksgiving I can't recall it ever being close to not being top to bottom with at least solid cover all the way down--sometimes not much was open, and maybe the years I didn't go were because the snow sucked (I can't remember). But based on when I've been there they should have, assuming 'normal' weather, no problem putting down more than enough base. I would guess they could move all sorts of fan guns and other extra snowmaking guns onto Superstar just for this, and I wouldn't be surprised if they focused exclusively on Superstar (or whatever trail the race will be on) if they could put over 4' of base down top to bottom in a week. Just guessing, but I remember Mt. Snow putting down a shocking amount of snow overnight top to bottom with their fan guns when they first installed them, and that obviously was without the incentive of a WC event.

But there's never any guarantee of snow on the WC--look at all the canceled/moved races in Europe over the past few years. I think two years ago they even had to make Kitbuhel a two run sprint DH (which has happened before with Kitbuhel getting hit particularly hard in recent years by lack of snow and warm temps). And that was with thousands of army guys working to spread snow around that had been trucked (and I think even helicoptered) in.

[steamboat1]

Pretty sure Killington already installed several fan guns on the lower section of Superstar. I don't know how many but it was on their list of improvements for this year. I believe they also have a couple of portable fan guns they could use. Of course this is in addition to the snowmaking capabilities they already have on the trail.

From their report:

"Snowmaking infrastructure has been redesigned and relocated on the lower section of Superstar trail. This investment will enhance snow production on the signature trail by utilizing fans guns to make snow faster and more efficiently. This snowmaking improvement will impact the guest experience through the final day of the spring ski season with better snow coverage and depth."

[grskier]

Sure do - for a number of years too. But a couple of things:

- Bansko has 5,000'+of lift serviced vert
- Race course starts at around 9,000' in elevation
- Race happens in March, when they have had 4 months to accumulate / produce snow

Which brings me to a question: in Bansko, they usually close the race course for up to 6 weeks before the race to shape, freeze, groom, etc the base which is 5'+

In some years, Kmart may only get 1 week of snowmaking weather prior to Thanksgiving, and even with a big snowmaking push every year, they barely go top-to-bottom by then.

How are they going to guarantee the snow cover is up to code for this event?

World cup on Aspen has made plenty of PR and snowmakers lose hair....

[Damian Sanders]

Pretty sure Killington already installed several fan guns on the lower section of Superstar. I don't know how many but it was on their list of improvements for this year. I believe they also have a couple of portable fan guns they could use. Of course this is in addition to the snowmaking capabilities they already have on the trail.

From their report:

"Snowmaking infrastructure has been redesigned and relocated on the lower section of Superstar trail. This investment will enhance snow production on the signature trail by utilizing fans guns to make snow faster and more efficiently. This snowmaking improvement will impact the guest experience through the final day of the spring ski season with better snow coverage and depth."

Sigh. You really need to learn how to read a deceptive Killington press release, don't you?

As of 10/4/15, there are no new fanguns on superstar. There are what looks to be 4 new power boxes on posts along the last extra-wide section, so I'm assuming they will be hauling up portable fans to use there are at some point.

[Damian Sanders]

Sure do - for a number of years too. But a couple of things:

- Bansko has 5,000'+of lift serviced vert
- Race course starts at around 9,000' in elevation
- Race happens in March, when they have had 4 months to accumulate / produce snow

Which brings me to a question: in Bansko, they usually close the race course for up to 6 weeks before the race to shape, freeze, groom, etc the base which is 5'+

In some years, Kmart may only get 1 week of snowmaking weather prior to Thanksgiving, and even with a big snowmaking push every year, they barely go top-to-bottom by then.

How are they going to guarantee the snow cover is up to code for this event?

I made this point over on alpinezone and was jumped on by some self proclaimed experts (actually, morons) that Killington would be able to run this race with 18" of snow on superstar.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthr...l=1#post915963

They are going to to need to make about 75 acre feet snow on superstar by Nov. 20th. This stands to have a dramatic impact on how much skiing is available for the public during all of the early season.

Well, put this to the BS test....

Superstar is 3400ft long, and roughly 200ft wide, 300ft wide at the bottom. Lets call it 15 acres. They need to put down roughly 5 feet of snow to get the base depths required to groom the hill nice and flat.....trust me, race teams will not be happy if they keep shanking rocks. So that's 75 acre feet of snow. About what it would take to get the northridge triple open and a snowdon route open, with decent but marginal coverage, to the bottom of the K-1. They have to make all this snow by around Nov 20th, the weekend prior, so they can get the hill prepped and allow some training on it.

Now, without getting into the details of the low-e snowguns, which are FAR less effective than old style snowguns at marginal temps..........what has Killington's past performance been like? Well, some years they do great, and have the snowdon route plus many other trails open by thanksgiving, say 150 acre feet of snow (after melting) by Nov. 20th - this is the max. The average is probably somewhere around 100 acre-ft after melting by Nov 20th, enough to get open top to bottom on the K-1, plus a few more trails. In a poor year, they have just a few trails open off the northridge triple, or are closed entirely, with only 10-20 acre feet of snow on the ground.

Now what about this race? They are contractually commited to host it and if they can't pull it off, they stand to loose a pile of money. Hopefully they have insurance for this sort of thing. Lets compare senarios based on past winters - each of these happen about a third of the time:

Cold November: No problem, race happens, skiing for public likely on other trails off superstar chairs, plus K-1, NRT and Snowdon.

Average November: Race draws most snowmaking resouces for first half of November. Superstar might be open to public for first half of November. Snowmaking on K-1 / NRT starts once Superstar looks to be in good shape, public skiing only on NRT for Thanksgiving weekend (45 minute lift lines).

Warm, rainy November: Snowmaking focused entirely on Superstar, during small overnight windows of snowmaking, with several rain events melting snow. No public skiing on Thanksgiving weekend.

So, by my estimates they have a 2/3rd's chance of having either NO public skiing, or skiing on the NRT only for Thanksgiving - both of those are pretty bad senarios.

This is not even taking into account the chances of an ice storm, major rain storm, or 70F thaw the week of the event.

EPIC FAIL!

[goldengatestinx]

Pretty sure Killington already installed several fan guns on the lower section of Superstar. I don't know how many but it was on their list of improvements for this year. I believe they also have a couple of portable fan guns they could use. Of course this is in addition to the snowmaking capabilities they already have on the trail.

From their report:

"Snowmaking infrastructure has been redesigned and relocated on the lower section of Superstar trail. This investment will enhance snow production on the signature trail by utilizing fans guns to make snow faster and more efficiently. This snowmaking improvement will impact the guest experience through the final day of the spring ski season with better snow coverage and depth."

Fan guns aren't the end all...air/water guns can pump out shitloads of snow and more than a fan gun, especially in warmer temps. A Ratnik Snow Giant V will bury you fast.

The key word in the Killington report is, 'more efficiently', meaning cheaper. No compressors are needed when running a fan gun which reduces the electric bill significantly. But air/water guns are killer when temps and relative humidity are marginal.

[BGSTi_403]

Looks like its confirmed on the calendar:

http://digital.vpr.net/post/killingt...vents#stream/0

Hope they can pull it off - I will be there...

[BigDaddy]

Ditto... It will be a blast. Very psyched.

[VTeton]

Happy to see a WC race on the EC, I wonder if Stowe was even considered? They have an awesome race hill but it doesn't run to bottom. Better lodging too. I'll be there either way!

[neufox47]

Benny, what's it like being a cynic? Is it as miserable as Southpark made it look?

[Skidog]

Yeah, I'll bet the international ski race travelling circus is going to be really impressed with Rutland and up the access road to the base. First class accommodations along with fine food. Oh, and the service! I almost forgot! Well trained, smiling, and courteous.

By the second night, most will be looking at their phones, wondering where they are winding up next, and how soon. It ain't Beaver or Kitzbuhel, that's for sure. It ain't even Vermont with all the little village with the white steeple in the valley charm thing. But that's how NBC will try to spin it.
I have no clue where most will sleep, now that I think of it, unless the nightly rate goes up to a grand and more on the free market, which it may. Talk about profit. But, then, the dust settles after a few days, and it the same old same old old.

Im sure that time of year the condo rentals are mostly available.

Agree though..it sure aint the most glamorous place.

[Benny Profane]

Benny, what's it like being a cynic? Is it as miserable as Southpark made it look?

Saved me from buying a house in 2003, or buying Pets.com in 1998.

Hey, I won't be anywhere near the place when it happens. Stowe is a Mountain Collective ticket now, and MRG is on Liftopia, and now I can ski midweek. Have fun getting dissed by the race people.

[BigDaddy]

Have fun getting dissed by the race people.

Hey, just cuz that's how they treat you, doesn't mean they're that way to NF...?!

He can actually rip and has the ability to socialize well with others. I would not be surprised if he goes home with the gold...













or even the blonde, Mikaela.

[Benny Profane]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure this South Park watching child is, like, so cool he's going to get the big hug from the cool race people. Snork, snork.

Is everybody here 16, and I just didn't know?

South Park. How can anybody older than 20 watch that shit? You know, people who discovered girls.

[BigDaddy]

Yeah Bernie, you're a stud......

[Benny Profane]

Hey, no South Park watching virgin with the balls to mock others on the internet. just, sayin'.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Only an hour away, will make it easy to watch some great skiing.

Always remember when Benny looks for lodging he clicks, Sort by Price- Lowest > Highest, and grabs the first open bed.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Have fun getting dissed by the race people.

I think you might be a little overly sensitive/defensive. Sure, you can find jerks anywhere if you look hard enough, but I've always thought of pro skiers (racers or otherwise) as extraordinarily approachable/friendly. I'd say that most of them are more easy going (and more interesting to talk to) than your average Kmart skier. Don't get this one at all, Benny.

[Damian Sanders]

Im sure that time of year the condo rentals are mostly available.

Agree though..it sure aint the most glamorous place.

There will be ample rental space throughout the Killington region. Killington typically gets about 3000-5000 skier visits on a Thanksgiving Saturday, many of those visits are day trippers. Peak season they can do about 15k or more. There is a massive amount of lodging in the Killington basin and access road. Overflow at Sunrise, East Mountain Road, Pico, plus the surrounding towns. Since snowshed is unlikely to be open, nothing will be ski on ski off. There will be a massive parking area setup for the world cup teams and VIP's on the Killington access road and learn to ski area, or possibly on bay 1 or 2.

[Benny Profane]

Well then, it's solved. Bring on the massive event.

[BigDaddy]

We'd all still be in fucking caves and skiing with one pole if it were up to Benjie...



or just fucking in caves with one pole.

[Benny Profane]

No, you'd be skiing at Magic. But, not on Wednesday.

[BigDaddy]

Like all well equipped cavemen, I've got several skins.


New Magic tree run... Wednesday's Cave

[Peruvian]

New Magic tree run... Wednesday's Cave

That kinda even fits the theme of the place.