29er is the best

[El Chupacabra]

^^^^that is awesome in a terrible sort of way. The fork, the saddle, the Nokonzzz, the frogs, clear bar tape, and not to nitpick, but PRO bars with SRAM shifters? Cmon now.

But it's a 29er!

[strawjack]

Why do you need fat tires if you have a full suspension?

I'm not sure if you are serious or not.

The fatty for me is pretty unreal on the tech. The grip and balance aspect (stall or at low speed) of the fat tires just makes it easier. I really enjoy riding that type of terrain, plus we have a shit ton of granite and very few hills near my house. The problem with the fat is the lack of rebound, so you end up bouncing like Tigger. Yeah, if I was younger I could probably deal with it, but I'm older and want it as easy as possible. The rigid fatty beats the shit out of me over distances.

The 29er is just too high and not nimble enough. That is what I ride, but the few times I've taken my kids 26er FS and the fatty to that zone it has made it more fun...with exceptions.

So combining all that experience, the ideal ride imo would be the fatty FS.

But I'd still need the 29er or 27.5 for more typical single track buff riding.

Again, I'll take one of each.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Fuck you, I'm not a roadie, that's awful.

[DasBlunt]

I'm not sure if you are serious or not.

The fatty for me is pretty unreal on the tech. The grip and balance aspect (stall or at low speed) of the fat tires just makes it easier. I really enjoy riding that type of terrain, plus we have a shit ton of granite and very few hills near my house. The problem with the fat is the lack of rebound, so you end up bouncing like Tigger. Yeah, if I was younger I could probably deal with it, but I'm older and want it as easy as possible. The rigid fatty beats the shit out of me over distances.

The 29er is just too high and not nimble enough. That is what I ride, but the few times I've taken my kids 26er FS and the fatty to that zone it has made it more fun...with exceptions.

So combining all that experience, the ideal ride imo would be the fatty FS.

But I'd still need the 29er or 27.5 for more typical single track buff riding.

Again, I'll take one of each.

29er at the end of the day is faster allows MORE air pressure ( faster, same Kushy feeling), cleans tech sections faster and allows you to pedal more efficiently through tech sections....up or down.

29er feeling "too high and not nimble" is a set up problem....not the wheel size. Many manufacturers in the past made the mistake of making them with typical frame angles, but now they know much more about how they handle.

I love hearing the BMX guys who keep complaining about "too steep head tube angles" in modern MTn bikes when they are running 1 size too small frames with zero rise, zero reach stems.....lol.

[strawjack]

^I'm not sure about frame angles and such. My bike is a pretty much a stock '12 carbon stumpy with only upgrade of crossmax rims. It's pretty damn light and nimble, but like all 29ers I've ridden, the front wheel takes more effort to get off the ground than the smaller wheel sizes. That's I guess what I mean when I'm talking nimble. Our tech is more like trials riding. If you get off line it's nice to stall and move your tires back on line easily. It's all boulders and slabs in this one new zone.

I agree, that general techy stuff you can flow over on a 29er, I just don't think we're necessarily talking the same type of terrain and if we are I guess I'm just not that good and I need what instills the most confidence. Falling on that shit is no bueno.

[gravitylover]

Getting the front wheel off the ground has more to do with stay length than wheel size.

I love falling

[VTskibum]

BB drop relative to axle height is a significant factor in front end lift. I switch between 100mm fork (summer xc racing season) and 120mm fork (rest of the year) on the same bike and it's noticeably easier to lift the front end with the slightly higher BB. On the flip side steep climbs are much more wheelie prone. A ride or two and I easily adjust back and forth.

[strawjack]

Yeah, all that adds up. I have a 130mm fork, 450mm chainstay and 1175 wheelbase.
A similar 650B has a 420mm chainstay, 1158 wheelbase.
BB drop is much less on the 650B, but I'm not sure how much that would play into it.

In the end the 29er just feels big and is big. It's a great ride for certain applications, but not all.

[toast2266]

Yeah, all that adds up. I have a 130mm fork, 450mm chainstay and 1175 wheelbase.
A similar 650B has a 420mm chainstay, 1158 wheelbase.
BB drop is much less on the 650B, but I'm not sure how much that would play into it.

In the end the 29er just feels big and is big. It's a great ride for certain applications, but not all.

450mm stays are pretty long these days. 430-435 is pretty common now, and there's a few 29er frames that are considerably shorter. On the other hand, 420mm is pretty short for a 650b. Most of the 650b's I've seen are in the neighborhood of 430. Or in other words, most frame designers seem to be honing in on ~430mm being a good chainstay length, regardless of wheel size.

If you're basing your thoughts on 29ers on the 2012 stumpy, you should try something more modern. Geometry on newer 29ers is quite a bit different.

[TahoeJ]

29ers are rad. 27.5's are rad. 26ers when they still existed were rad. ;-) It just depends on how and where you want to use them. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

/ end thread.

[xyz]

29ers fs sucked for the most part because the geos sucked, not the wheel diameter. So they invented the 27.5 as a compromise. Now that they have figured out how to make 29ers properly, 27.5 really isn't necessary.

[DasBlunt]

29ers fs sucked for the most part because the geos sucked, not the wheel diameter. So they invented the 27.5 as a compromise. Now that they have figured out how to make 29ers properly, 27.5 really isn't necessary.

Yep.

29er is the best. But getting dropped on a climb is worse.....ugh....the rain arrived.

[DasBlunt]

Yeah, all that adds up. I have a 130mm fork, 450mm chainstay and 1175 wheelbase.
A similar 650B has a 420mm chainstay, 1158 wheelbase.
BB drop is much less on the 650B, but I'm not sure how much that would play into it.

In the end the 29er just feels big and is big. It's a great ride for certain applications, but not all.

450mm stays are pretty long these days. 430-435 is pretty common now, and there's a few 29er frames that are considerably shorter. On the other hand, 420mm is pretty short for a 650b. Most of the 650b's I've seen are in the neighborhood of 430. Or in other words, most frame designers seem to be honing in on ~430mm being a good chainstay length, regardless of wheel size.

If you're basing your thoughts on 29ers on the 2012 stumpy, you should try something more modern. Geometry on newer 29ers is quite a bit different.

2012 Stumpjumper 29er is like a 10 years away from 2015 and 2016 Stumpjumper 29er.....you will not even feel like you are on a 29er....except when the 3 extra inches of wheel decimate the trail.

[strawjack]

2012 Stumpjumper 29er is like a 10 years away from 2015 and 2016 Stumpjumper 29er.....you will not even feel like you are on a 29er....except when the 3 extra inches of wheel decimate the trail.

Which is just fucking crazy. I bought the thing in '13 as a leftover and my wife was like 'how much? ...on a bike?' And the thing is outdated a couple yrs later. Beautiful.

Wanna talk about chainstays...390mm on my GF vintage '92

[DasBlunt]

I had a Beast of the East. 26" front, 24" rear....climbing machine!

Break that Specialized and make them give you a new one.......post a photo of your Stumpy...

I rode AMP bikes for a long time. Specialized is just the lightest with the best warranty right now in my size XL.

[steff]

That ol' GF looks like a good bike for doing wheelies.

So most new full suspension 29ers don't feel overly long and tall like they did before? That's good to know, I've been shopping for one and no chance for real test rides in recent years. The idea of 100mm travel to keep it from feeling big seemed appealing. The 140-150mm ride is tempting, but was hoping to avoid bus-like handling. Spec Enduro29, Banshee or Canfield look like good choices. What others?
I've only owned hardtail 29ers w/100mm fork. Short wheelbase, low bb, quick handling lightweight racy rigs. Fun to ride, but the body needs a more squishy bike.

[DasBlunt]

That ol' GF looks like a good bike for doing wheelies.

So most new full suspension 29ers don't feel overly long and tall like they did before? That's good to know, I've been shopping for one and no chance for real test rides in recent years. The idea of 100mm travel to keep it from feeling big seemed appealing. The 140-150mm ride is tempting, but was hoping to avoid bus-like handling. Spec Enduro29, Banshee or Canfield look like good choices. What others?
I've only owned hardtail 29ers w/100mm fork. Short wheelbase, low bb, quick handling lightweight racy rigs. Fun to ride, but the body needs a more squishy bike.

Depends on your size......if you want 100mm, Specialized epic, and set it up more free ride with different bars and tires.

New Specialized Camber looks rad too.

[strawjack]

Break that Specialized and make them give you a new one.......post a photo of your Stumpy...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of breaking this bike

This is my bike. Only upgrade is the wheelset. And derailluer.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...srcompcarbon29

[toast2266]

That ol' GF looks like a good bike for doing wheelies.

So most new full suspension 29ers don't feel overly long and tall like they did before? That's good to know, I've been shopping for one and no chance for real test rides in recent years. The idea of 100mm travel to keep it from feeling big seemed appealing. The 140-150mm ride is tempting, but was hoping to avoid bus-like handling. Spec Enduro29, Banshee or Canfield look like good choices. What others?
I've only owned hardtail 29ers w/100mm fork. Short wheelbase, low bb, quick handling lightweight racy rigs. Fun to ride, but the body needs a more squishy bike.

The Enduro 29 definitely still feels kinda bus-like. Granted it's a bus that'll smash the shit out of everything on high speed descents, but it feels like a big bike.

Check out some of the 110-130mm travel options. Transition Smuggler, Kona Process 111, Salsa Horsethief. All really fun bikes.

[xyz]

Check out some of the 110-130mm travel options. Transition Smuggler, Kona Process 111, Salsa Horsethief. All really fun bikes.

Oh gawd. Short travel, slack 29ers. My pants are so tight for one of those. Thinking of selling my honzo and process 134 for one. It's the ultimate quiver killer bike.

[stuckathuntermtn]

The BH Lynx looks really cool. It's got 430mm chainstays and can still take a front derailleur. 68* head angle.
It's not boost or 27.5+ or some other trendy garbage so you haven't been told you want it.

[jamal]

I'm pretty set on picking up the new hei hei trail dl at some point next year. Had a lot of fun riding one at the recent demo day.

http://www.konaworld.com/hei_hei_dl_trail.cfm

[stuckathuntermtn]

Seems like a fun bike. The idea of relying on flex in the aluminum seems weird, but I have to assume they tested it.
Kona's reach has gotten so long, lol, hope that comes with a super short stem.

[jono]

Seems like a fun bike. The idea of relying on flex in the aluminum seems weird, but I have to assume they tested it.

In 6061 with asymmetric chainstays, no less. Hmm. I hope you're right about the testing, but in any case that's not a bike I'd plan to keep for life.

[DasBlunt]

In 6061 with asymmetric chainstays, no less. Hmm. I hope you're right about the testing, but in any case that's not a bike I'd plan to keep for life.

Kona has a 3 year or lifetime, depending on the material......

Salsa making bikes so rad is a great sign of a great industry...