Do you care where your Outerwear is made, or clothes in general?

[angler99]

Isn't it possible that brand XYZ Outerwear creates jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas? Say XYZ Brand has an idea for a really nice, breathable, durable, light weight shell that rivals anything from Patagonia, North Face, etc. They can make it overseas with high quality and pass those savings onto the customer, or make it here in the US for a lot more, which is passed onto the customer. Say XYZ chooses the overseas route and has a great product. Product flies off the shelves, and now they need a dedicated accountant, shipping department, marketing folk, graphic design person, and on and on.

So just maybe, brand XYZ has now created more jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas and giving their customers a great product at a great price.

[Harry]

^^ bootlicker.

[XavierD]

Not to mention international trade tends to make everyone in the world better off except the poor fucks who keep on trying to do something they were bad at, but got away with due to limmited international competition.

[Micol]

Isn't it possible that brand XYZ Outerwear creates jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas? Say XYZ Brand has an idea for a really nice, breathable, durable, light weight shell that rivals anything from Patagonia, North Face, etc. They can make it overseas with high quality and pass those savings onto the customer, or make it here in the US for a lot more, which is passed onto the customer. Say XYZ chooses the overseas route and has a great product. Product flies off the shelves, and now they need a dedicated accountant, shipping department, marketing folk, graphic design person, and on and on.

So just maybe, brand XYZ has now created more jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas and giving their customers a great product at a great price.

First, I would argue the point about "XYZ Brand has an idea for a really nice, breathable, durable, light weight shell that rivals anything from....." but I'm sure someone can passionately argue this platform even though the public's need for said garment may be no more than 15-20 days worth of skiing/riding and the rest is walking around town. The guides, mountaineers, etc that are making big news and summits everyday around the world are all getting free gear and a check from the brand to take pictures and report back...All this gets used in advertising to sell you that they are the best or whatever the claim. Whoever has the most money for marketing is going to tell the loudest story and sell more gear and keep scaling up their "idea".

IMO making oversees is about making more profit and being able to scale up without domestically investing in infrastructure, people and training to manufacture; and the people that support the industries that build that equipment. I buy equipment here stateside. When it breaks I buy parts and labor stateside to get it running again.

I hire all the same people you reference and then more on production side such as pattern makers, engineers, specialized labor operators which when annualized equals an $80,000 a year job (this is on the extreme high side on labor). Most small brands won't have their own pattern maker and similar design level employees stateside until they get bigger. When they start up many rely on the overseas manufactures to supply the block patterns and then the stateside brand adds logos and labels and hang tags using PLM software. All the labels, hangtags, printing, embroidery also get done overseas as is the rest of the manufacturing process (ie.sourcing, fabric, notions, trim, zippers, tape, etc etc). I do these things here, locally. When the foreign based machines go down they call in the local repair people in 'Xyingdingdung'. When brands scale up their volume, the overseas manufactures hire more people and buy more machines from their local suppliers.... and so on.

If I'm selling the same quality jacket at the same price to you as the competitor who is using the cheap overseas manufacturing, are they really passing the savings on to you?? I'm not saying I'm jack, But, in the end, I simply make a lot less profit margin than say Under Armor, flylow, patagonia , Burton, 696, Nike etc. However, it feels like the right thing to do. They all probably feel pretty good about what they are doing too.

Then there's this........ one container ship annually equals pollution of 50 million cars. Granted no one brand can take credit for one ship, but when every brand does it you get 50M for one ship then X times thousands.
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ping-pollution
http://www.gizmag.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

[Micol]

Not to mention international trade tends to make everyone in the world better off except the poor fucks who keep on trying to do something they were bad at, but got away with due to limmited international competition.

I disagree with your point. I have an extensive collection of historical technical outerwear I have put together that starts somewhere in the 60'-70s and covers Made in USA era, Made in Korea, Made in Taiwan, Made in Hong Kong and eventually Mainland China then Vietnam. The early stuff made in any of those early era locations suck. Making garments takes skilled labor, and practice makes quality better over time. I've studied the evolution and speak from approx 100 pieces that hang on my walls and racks. I have some incredible pieces made in USA from brands in the 80's that are on par with many of today's made in China Vietnam offerings. In fact, they are better.

This, seriously, is utter nonsense...
"except the poor fucks who keep on trying to do something they were bad at,"

[jono]

Speaking more generically (broad generalizations coming up), the low price of labor overseas is neither permanent/dependable nor the whole story with respect to basic costs. Good materials cost more and when used more efficiently in domestic processes -> advantage onshore. Shipping is a permanent cost to overseas production and it doesn't get better with scale. Translation and communication cost money, but at least they do get better with scale. Time spent in production and transportation can be accounted for up front if the time is dependable: it's just more interest until something unexpected happens, but then it can be catastrophic. All of those costs have to be accounted for, even the rarer ones, if company xyz is going to make it and that means they have to target a higher gross profit margin just to survive. Really low labor rates make that look viable, but it's a short term analysis: Chinese currency isn't going to go down while the trade imbalance is what it is, Chinese suppliers are notorious for under-quoting and then raising the price in order to meet the original specification, and as technology advances humans (especially the ones with highly repetitive tasks) get more productive and their base hourly wage matters less and less. One specific example in electronics started out at an estimated 1/3 the domestic cost and ended up at 98% by the time production actually spooled up, with long delays, IP compromised--and the exchange rate kept moving throughout the production run.

In the long run, if xyz puts all their intellectual property in China they can't change their minds and send production elsewhere when conditions require it. To say nothing of having to compete with the Chinese, who then have all the inside knowledge. Germany has figured this out: because they value their IP they don't produce in China, and instead they invest in domestic automation. In the long run, even the Chinese will have to do that, but in the meantime China is a great place to produce products that don't take much thought and are simple to design. If xyz really has a better idea they'd be better served proving it out faster domestically and not turning that idea over to all of their competitors in China. But like MiCol says, if xyz just has a better marketing machine and knows how to tap into what's fashionable then the risk of basically copying existing tech is low and the real risks are just marketing; by all means, head for China with that.

And that's why, to me, Made in China says cheaply designed but maybe well marketed.

[tacklebox]

I want my gear to be made by folks who understand what its like to be desperately cold.....like life threatening cold.

[nord]

Isn't it possible that brand XYZ Outerwear creates jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas? Say XYZ Brand has an idea for a really nice, breathable, durable, light weight shell that rivals anything from Patagonia, North Face, etc. They can make it overseas with high quality and pass those savings onto the customer, or make it here in the US for a lot more, which is passed onto the customer. Say XYZ chooses the overseas route and has a great product. Product flies off the shelves, and now they need a dedicated accountant, shipping department, marketing folk, graphic design person, and on and on.

So just maybe, brand XYZ has now created more jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas and giving their customers a great product at a great price.

Not Really. For Example Santa Cruz Bicycles has just over 100 Employees. Even though they are a pretty popular bike brand. Probably most shipping , Receiving, Warehouse and Bike assembly. Maybe 10 sales people, 7 marketing and !0 engineering and industrial/graphic designers.

Another example is FlyLow. Which as best I can tell has less than 10 employees. So some outdoor brands have less employees than your local ski shop.

[haydukelives]

I want my gear to be made by folks who understand what its like to be desperately cold.....like life threatening cold.

Made in Tibet ?
Great handmade quality
Hard to find
Heavy

[splat]

Isn't it possible that brand XYZ Outerwear creates jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas? Say XYZ Brand has an idea for a really nice, breathable, durable, light weight shell that rivals anything from Patagonia, North Face, etc. They can make it overseas with high quality and pass those savings onto the customer, or make it here in the US for a lot more, which is passed onto the customer. Say XYZ chooses the overseas route and has a great product. Product flies off the shelves, and now they need a dedicated accountant, shipping department, marketing folk, graphic design person, and on and on.

So just maybe, brand XYZ has now created more jobs in the US by manufacturing overseas and giving their customers a great product at a great price.

Really, more jobs than the manufacturing and all the other jobs you listed?
You mean like unbridled immigration creates more jobs for Americans...but only if you work for the Border Patrol?

Freeride Systems apparel already rivals all the big name manufacturers that send the work overseas. Your logic is flawed.

[media310]

now we are getting somewhere - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ted-with-bison