Khion vs Merc vs Vulcan vs Mtn Lab vs Maestrale RS

[ScrewYou]

Both. I find the rx 130 and ghost to fit similarly. Or well, Both work very well with my feet, and not a lot of other boots do. I can rock ghosts and rx 130s straight out of the box with no problems. IDK if that constitutes a similar fit or not.. they are similar to me, but I also have a very wierd foot.

The MTN lab definitely has the salomon heel and ankle hold, but the instep height and toebox width are a touch roomier than the ghost, more like the rx 130, which i find extremely comfortable for a 97mm last

[dcpnz]

The MTN lab definitely has the salomon heel and ankle hold, but the instep height and toebox width are a touch roomier than the ghost, more like the rx 130, which i find extremely comfortable for a 97mm last

Maybe that explains difference. Sounds like you are comparing to RX LV while I'm in regular RX. Mtn lab felt a lot narrower in towbox than what I'm accustomed to.

[tompietrowski]

Im glad you guys found the review of the boots and if you would like any more information let me know. While its fair to say I did not go on any multi day tours in either boot I certainly did more then just pretend and take selfies.

Glad you guys liked the way of testing two boots side by side I try to do this quite often as it really is the best way to easily identify differences, or similarities.

Any way any questions let me know.

[tompietrowski]

I have a feeling the Beast heel fitting won't work with the Backland soles - not enough plastic for the screws to go in to.

Yeah very first gen will not be beast or kingpin compatible but hopefully that should be resolved by the year after from what I understand. Possibly even in one size for this season but I doubt it

[tompietrowski]

Yes, after reading so much gushing ( in this review and elsewhere) how the Mtn Labs ski like an alpine boot, to have them described as comparable to year old Mercuries in a boot to boot test (which should be done more) was shocking. I love my Mercuries as a touring boot, and I'll occasionally ski them in the resort, but I would never confuse their skiing performance with a real alpine boot. Either the NS reviewer is an articulate and detailed imposter (skiing wise) or the Salomons aren't the boot these reviews are claiming. It also seems unlikely that the NS reviewer actually toured in the Mercuries with the tongues out (or did any real touring beyond wandering around taking selfies on a cat road) as the ROM of the Mercuries sans tongue is well beyond the biomechanical limits of my ankle, and his claiming better touring performance for the Salomons seems like more BS.

some interesting points ill try to address. My first response is more a question of what issues you find with the Mercuries in the resort? Sure they are no race plug boot but other then lacking a bit of progression really they can handle most things in the resort fine in my opinion. Perhaps if you're more the race style resort skier yeah I can see your issues but I rode the MTN lab and also the Backland all round the mountain including the park which will usually very easily show the short comings in freeride/at boots.

As for touring in the mercury I certainly did not spend a bunch of time in them that is fair but I did I few longer skins and did try with both the tongue in and out. The main issue really I have with the mercury is its not as straight forward as the mtn lab. In the lab i just released the spine and went no messing and this may be one issue where the "newschooler" attitude comes in. Im out touring to find pow and big lines, not for the touring its self. i dont want to mess around at the top I want to ski and the Lab just allows this. Yeah its a small thing and Im sure to alot of you guys here it wont even matter.

They are not perfect, I know some of the team riders have already slightly adapted them to increase heel hold and as far as im aware you may see that in updated production models too but regardless they really are a very impressive boot.

[XXX-er]

They are not perfect, I know some of the team riders have already slightly adapted them to increase heel hold and as far as im aware you may see that in updated production models too but regardless they really are a very impressive boot.

I forget which team rider but one of them had put an extra strap over the arch of the mtnlabs, they said they liked the boot but thats what I expect them to say

[sfotex]

Anybody know how the MTN Explores ski versus the MTN Labs? Labs sound like a good fit for me, but probably stiffer than I need/want, so if Explores are just a softer-flexing version, that would be cool, but I'm hoping they're not shorter-cuffed or lacking in lateral or rearward support or anything weird like that. Not too worried about a small weight savings or extra ROM.

Anyone know the answer? I slightly softer version of the Mtn Lab sounds like a win to me too.

[westoxified]

Anyone know the answer? I slightly softer version of the Mtn Lab sounds like a win to me too.

Not sure if it's any help but I saw Chris Rubens skiing the white MTN Explore boot last year with some Guardians on Rocker2 122s...

[XXX-er]

Last spring they were all on the blue/black mtn labs, white mtn lab skis, dynafit bindings to explore for shooting and they switch to guardians if they are gone huck stuff is what I seem to remember them sayin

[westoxified]

Last spring they were all on the blue/black mtn labs, white mtn lab skis, dynafit bindings to explore for shooting and they switch to guardians if they are gone huck stuff is what I seem to remember them sayin

That may be, but he was skiing in Revelstoke with Michelle Parker and on the white boot.

anyhoo, I think the white boot might be under served with the 100 written on it. gonna check it out.

[XXX-er]

the whole Salomon freeski TV crew was up here to shoot the Hankin-Evelyn story unfortunately they missed the snow so they got all the background but no ski porn ... hopefully the weather coops this year

[wasatchback]

Has anyone commented about the lack of forward ROM? Is it not that big of a deal? Seems like there is virtually no forward range.

[ScrewYou]

Ya just had the MTN Labs on my feet for an hour or so, fiddling around with them. There is almost no forward range of motion, all of the alpine/AT crossover boots I have tried on (cochise, k2, quest max) have much more forward motion. But there is a ton of rearward motion in the MTN lab, much more than the alpine/at boots. Idk how that will translate..

And holy shit, these have so much padding in the toes and instep. after about an hour of so on my feet, I can confirm they are just as tight as my ghosts were out of the box. Maybe even tighter, but I dont doubt the liners will pack out more and faster. Its like a foam pit inside them, jeez. But they are 95 percent the same as other low volume salomons, at the least. I wore one side by side with my ghost 130, and the flex is similar in strength (this was inside at 70 fahrenheit), but different feeling. Its not as smooth as the ghost obviously.

[swissiphic]

Has anyone commented about the lack of forward ROM? Is it not that big of a deal? Seems like there is virtually no forward range.

uh oh....boot was on the list but this could be a deal breaker.... forward ROM is pretty high on the priority list for skinning in technical, steep and convoluted terrain and pre/post season hiking... can someone post a vid to show? Still curious about all aspects of Khion too...not much info avail yet. Might have to stick with tried tested and true merc/vulcan; damn fine versatile boots imo.

[Kufo]

Big write up on Backland vs MTN LAB

http://www.newschoolers.com/news/rea...ource=facebook

[Johnny Utah]

Big write up on Backland vs MTN LAB

http://www.newschoolers.com/news/rea...ource=facebook

This may be one of the worst gear reviews I've read in a while.

That's my contribution. Carry on.

[ScrewYou]

How do I post a video straight on here from my phone, is that possible?

I have a vid of the forward motion differences between ski and hike mode on the mtn lab, and for anyone who wants to see my jazzercise routine.

[XavierD]

I put the khion and khion carbon on today. Anyone flex it into walk mode, looks possible? as wassatchback said, it has almost no forward range of motion. Rear range of motion is fantastic and smooth though.

[wasatchback]

I don't have as much skinning under my belt as a lot of you guys here but aren't you more likely to need forward ROM on a regular basis than tons of rearward ROM? Isn't tons of rearward ROM only beneficial on really long flat approaches? And even then how much do you really need? What rearward ROM is your ankle even capable of?

[PNWbrit]

I don't have as much skinning under my belt as a lot of you guys here but aren't you more likely to need forward ROM on a regular basis than tons of rearward ROM? Isn't tons of rearward ROM only beneficial on really long flat approaches? And even then how much do you really need? What rearward ROM is your ankle even capable of?

Your ankles are on backwards?

[westoxified]

Big write up on Backland vs MTN LAB

http://www.newschoolers.com/news/rea...ource=facebook

Kufo hasn't been reading his own thread.

Just to catch you up to speed, the summary is that Tom's a gaper that thinks the park is the ultimate proving ground for boots.

[tompietrowski]

Kufo hasn't been reading his own thread.

Just to catch you up to speed, the summary is that Tom's a gaper that thinks the park is the ultimate proving ground for boots.

Haha thanks I have not been called a gaper in a long time. May I ask why the park is not a good testing ground? Massive impacts to test the overal build combined with a need to carve hard while also needing a good rebound make the park great testin ground. Is it the ultimate testing ground, no but I never said it was but it certainly is a great addition to testing whic certainly can't hurt in an overal write up.

[XavierD]

Testing a Mercury or mtn lab in the park makes about as much sense as testing a cyclocross bike on dirt jumps, or an F1 car on a motor cross course. It's both silly, and irrelevant. YMMV.

[swissiphic]

I don't have as much skinning under my belt as a lot of you guys here but aren't you more likely to need forward ROM on a regular basis than tons of rearward ROM? Isn't tons of rearward ROM only beneficial on really long flat approaches? And even then how much do you really need? What rearward ROM is your ankle even capable of?

I have normal ankles that flex the right way and from my experience lots of forward ROM is beneficial and for me being a really picky bastard, a top priority. Boots like Dynafit Mercury somewhat almost but not quite mountaineering boot like fore and aft ROM really increase the versatility of the boots pressed into service as summer hiking boots and limitless comfort for ski touring in all terrain and angles of fall line and traversing angles. I also ski tour with Garmont Deliriums, a stiff, heavy limited rear ROM but smooth deep front ROM for yo-yo ski tours up and down the fall line with no flats or undulating terrain. They work just fine since in this scenerio where you march up a fall line or a consistent medium grade skin trail the rear ROM elasticity ain't that critical. They are overlap construction boots so for maximizing forward ROM, I tour with all the cuff buckles totally undone with the occasional use of the lowest cuff buckle on max open setting at the last catch of the ladder. Stiffness of the cuff provides enough stability for basic tours in straightforward terrain. In fact, they toured better for forward ROM than my old mango scrapa maestrale's which always had a bit of upper tongue resistance in steeps weird terrain...didn't like 'em.

As for testing touring boots in the park, yup, bring it on. I don't drop anything but pow pillows but kinda nice to know that for guys landing hard in back seat on ice and torquing weird angles off the top of the cuff in various scenerios that the boots don't fold, collapse, bend, break or tell you to fuck off. I kinda like to know that.

[LeeLau]

Haha thanks I have not been called a gaper in a long time. May I ask why the park is not a good testing ground? Massive impacts to test the overal build combined with a need to carve hard while also needing a good rebound make the park great testin ground. Is it the ultimate testing ground, no but I never said it was but it certainly is a great addition to testing whic certainly can't hurt in an overal write up.

Actually I thought that was a well-written review. The objective part where you got into boot construction was well done. I enjoyed the comparison between boot construction