Khion vs Merc vs Vulcan vs Mtn Lab vs Maestrale RS

[El Chupacabra]

El Chup, I'm pretty sure I still have my RS straps in my closet. They're yours if you want, they're brand new.

Thanks! Sending PM.

[SkiersLeft]

Was trying to add a link to the Khions, they're on the MEC website right now but TGR is giving me this error.

Post denied. New posts are limited by number of URLs it may contain and checked if it doesn't contain forbidden words.

Not sure why, anyhow MEC has pictures etc of the Khions

On a side note I tried on some 27.5 Vulcans and 28.5 Mercury's today. My street shoe size is 10. The 27.5 Vulcan's were good on my left foot, but tight on my right a bit (could probably punch out etc), the 28.5 Mercury's certainly felt a bit big on both feet. Essentially in the 27.5 shell fit I have 2 fingers approx. I don't really like the stock liners, and it seems I need a footbed on my R. I'm not sure which way to go with this. If it's better for me to get 28.5's mercury and perhaps get a thicker liner (intuition) for added comfort and space for footbeds. Or to get the 27.5 Vulcan's and either put a thin intuition in it and do some work to the R to make it work. From what I've read these boots can basically be made to work for anyone essentially, as long as you have a decent shell fit and not completely messed feet. I'm looking for input here, as I'm ideally wanting a one boot quiver and my concern with going to 28.5 is it will be a bit big (although I could get the 28.0 intuition liner and it might feel perfect. Should I expect these boots to pack out some? I realise they probably wont fit very comfortably now especially not being heat molded etc.

try the 26 shell... i'm a 12 street shoe and wide 108mm feet in a 28 vulcan with an intuition pro wrap (no punches). as everyone else has said, shell fit the boots properly, and fingering doesn't count. who has the same size fingers anyways?

[XXX-er]

This ^^ the liner mod might work but you should just assume you will need to change the stock liner and if you do probably go with the pwr wrap because of the instep issue and really ... you are just buying a shell

The end of a medium sized jiffy marker is exactly 15mm, from what you are saying I wouldn't go any bigger than the 27.5 shell and If you already own an intuition liner from another boot I would try it in the shell

If you get down there much the Intuition outlet in Vancover are THE best cuz they have ALL the product, they been doing it 15yrs, they do punches and its best to make an appointment

[Mofro261]

As a diiferent pov... I hated touring in my power wraps and much prefer the stock "shitty" liner as the PW restricted the ROM on the up for me. Great on the down and I liked them in my alpine shoes, YMMV.

[PNWbrit]

Absolutely zero problems with stock dynafit liner in Mercuries or TLT6s. They're a little cold perhaps?

At least 200 days in Mercuries they're getting a little tired around the edges but agree with mofro about the ROM on them.

[XXX-er]

we can assume i would have rather spent 300$ on something else but I couldn't use stock Dynafit or any intuition liner with a tongue ( I think it depends on your instep ) and so ymmv as they say but if one just assumes they are buying a shell only ... you won't be dissapointed

removing that piece from the instep of the liner helped a bit

[SkiersLeft]

cannot say anything positive about dynafit liners. they, as most liners, have very little to do with how well or poorly the shell itself fits a given a foot. out of the box of course.

touring with pro wraps sucks, fact, a wrap liner sucks for touring. for fit and feel on the down it is amazing, imvho.

in general it depends on what you are trying to do, ie; what type of skier you are and what ski you plan on driving. in my experience, the wider and heavier the ski, the more powerful a boot and precise a fit you need. if you're skiing/touring a 120+ wide ski in variable snow, you want a different fit than if you're skiing a 100mm wide ski and so on. boot, skier, ski, then terrain. but thats just me.

[Kufo]

Forget the liner. Your shell fit on the 27.5 is at the largest that is acceptable. 28.5 is too big. Get the 27.5 if the overall shape is good, then mold the liners, then punch if needed.

Thanks for this info

So I found some Vulcan's that I want to go with. I found a new pair for $730 and a used pair for $600 (going to offer $500). The used pair has been punched slightly on the Right foot (which is where I will most likely need it too) and I also don't pay tax on the used. My thoughts are buying the used pair and using the money saved to put intuitions in them. I don't really enjoy how the stock Vulcan liners fit/feel. The used ones are from a ski shop manager. Thoughts on new vs used?

I'm also wondering thoughts on intuition liners? Which do most people seem to go with? I've seen a few go with pro tour for the Vulcan's. I'm getting a 27.5 shell which is about 1 finger on the R and 2 fingers on the L (I have a substantial difference in foot size). I'm considering ordering the 28 liners because the 27.5 liner is pretty tight on my R foot.

I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger on these boots, realizing they cost more than my bindings and my skis (not combined).

Added - here's a nice video on the Khion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgg1RE9QlvE

[cat in january]

Prices sound a bit high for this time of year considering what they have been going for, but I have not followed closely.

Putting a 28 liner in a 27 shell is not a good idea.

[shafty85]

I

Prices sound a bit high for this time of year considering what they have been going for, but I have not followed closely.

Putting a 28 liner in a 27 shell is not a good idea.

Agreed on the prices. Seem way high.

Intuition did advise using a liner larger than the boot size when I went in for fitting - it more allows the liner to fill all the space of the boot, even though I required a tonne of punching on both my alpine and touring boots, but will still mold to what you require out of it. The sizing up should eliminate stretching of the liner and simply allow it to mold/pack where necessary,which is better for the liner, from what I was told.

[gregL]

I'm considering ordering the 28 liners because the 27.5 liner is pretty tight on my R foot.

You realize that once you heat the liners (especially if you toe cap your foot) they will not feel anything like they do out of the box, right? You should ideally try to match the length of the liner to the interior length of the shell (compare with stock liners); if in between sizes go with the larger.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Email intuition about what size liners. They seem to know which is best for many boots.

[Lindahl]

You realize that once you heat the liners (especially if you toe cap your foot) they will not feel anything like they do out of the box, right? You should ideally try to match the length of the liner to the interior length of the shell (compare with stock liners); if in between sizes go with the larger.

Agreed. Choose the boot based on shell fit and ignore how it feels with the new liner (IF its Intuition-type foam). When I try on boots, I bring an old packed out Intuition with me - gives me a good idea if the shell is workable or not. The local boot shop that is world-reknowned (Larry's) keeps a couple old packed out powerwraps in popular sizes just for this very reason. When I mold ProTours in my Cochises, I can't even really close the boot over the instep. It'd be crushing to try and wear it for a few minutes. After, its the best fitting boot I've ever had. If you've never done Intuitions, you need to throw everything you know about liners out the window.

And yeah, match the liner sole length to the interior shell length.

[XXX-er]

a used pair for $600 (going to offer $500). The used pair has been punched slightly on the Right foot (which is where I will most likely need it too) and I also don't pay tax on the used. My thoughts are buying the used pair and using the money saved to put intuitions in them. I don't really enjoy how the stock Vulcan liners fit/feel. The used ones are from a ski shop manager. Thoughts on new vs used?

I'm also wondering thoughts on intuition liners? Which do most people seem to go with? I've seen a few go with pro tour for the Vulcan's. I'm getting a 27.5 shell which is about 1 finger on the R and 2 fingers on the L (I have a substantial difference in foot size). I'm considering ordering the 28 liners because the 27.5 liner is pretty tight on my R foot.

I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger on these boots, realizing they cost more than my bindings and my skis (not combined).

Added - here's a nice video on the Khion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgg1RE9QlvE

well you can be sure the ski shop guy didn't pay 1000$ you could also point out its now an old model so offer 500 so buddy can get the new Khion. The no tax(?) no shipping and they are right there (?) will make things start to look better and if buddy will help you with punches and a deal on getting some intuitions into the boot ect that could make it prettty nice??

If you are a popular size your size there may not be stock, I think I got the smoking deal cuz at 24 my feet are small, the 250eu Vulcans at sport conrad are still there but they are 22.5 and 23 ... whom with feet that size can flex a vulcan?

YMMV but the only liner that works for me is pw

[Kufo]

Agreed. Choose the boot based on shell fit and ignore how it feels with the new liner (IF its Intuition-type foam). When I try on boots, I bring an old packed out Intuition with me - gives me a good idea if the shell is workable or not. The local boot shop that is world-reknowned (Larry's) keeps a couple old packed out powerwraps in popular sizes just for this very reason. When I mold ProTours in my Cochises, I can't even really close the boot over the instep. It'd be crushing to try and wear it for a few minutes. After, its the best fitting boot I've ever had. If you've never done Intuitions, you need to throw everything you know about liners out the window.

And yeah, match the liner sole length to the interior shell length.

Thank you for this Lindahl. I read your review on the Atomic Backlands and saw the 25' you dropped in them. Nice. Those certainly seem like a good boot in a different category for sure. I presume I am making a good decision with my criteria being essentialy a one boot quiver with the Vulcan. What are your thoughts? Chances are I feel like I will be skiing sans tounge, they do seem stiff. The backlands do seem wonderful and I love the idea of heat molding the shell! but certainly more compared to a light touring boot afaik. I may just end up heading down to Vancouver and making an appointment at Intuition after I get the shells and have them do everything there including possibly some punching if needing.

well you can be sure the ski shop guy didn't pay 1000$ you could also point out its now an old model so offer 500 so buddy can get the new Khion. The no tax(?) no shipping and they are right there (?) will make things start to look better and if buddy will help you with punches and a deal on getting some intuitions into the boot ect that could make it prettty nice??
If you are a popular size your size there may not be stock, I think I got the smoking deal cuz at 24 my feet are small, the 250eu Vulcans at sport conrad are still there but they are 22.5 and 23 ... whom with feet that size can flex a vulcan?
YMMV but the only liner that works for me is pw

The ski shop guy is going with the backlands from what he said and not the Khions. He said Vulcan's were too stiff for him. I spoke to him today, he dropped them to $500 (no tax) simply by me saying their selling new for $695. Shipping isn't included, it isn't in my home town. I'm thinking of offering $475 including shipping and taking it from there. He seems pretty flexable. I'm assuming retailer price is around $600. I do have a local ski shop where I bought a bunch of gear that will probably work on them for me. They are also the local intuition dealer. There's a 2015 Intuition group by going on, I'm going to grab a pair through the group buy to save (if I don't end up in Vancouver with my shells).

You did get a sick deal XXX-er for 335 cdn and those are new. These are slightly used and slightly punched but no imperfections or anything I'd worry too much about. The fact that new ones still cost me $820 after tax and I can get slightly used for $500 is a huge difference. Essentially that's my intuitions right there in the difference, plus whatever punching cost may be (which shouldn't be much as I mentioned above).

Here is the link to the Atomic Backland thread and it also has Lindhals 25' cliff drop in those boots in it

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...tomic-Backland

[Kufo]

Here are some pics of the used Vulcan's I was looking at. Is there any issue with that toe-piece? The one that looks like it has a ding out of the metal?

[Lindahl]

Stick with the Vulcans (or similar boots in this category). I think they're a better fit for what you're looking for.

[gregL]

Is there any issue with that toe-piece? The one that looks like it has a ding out of the metal?

The "ding" is a step-in aid cast into the toe fittings of genuine Dynafit brand tech fittings, used on Dynafit and Scarpa boots. They are made with a groove in the bottom to facilitate sliding the toe pins into place. It actually looks like someone filed down the fitting on the boot you show trying to flatten it out, hard to tell from the photo.

[XXX-er]

they look to be in pretty good shape, the toe fitting looks fine the cup of the fitting looks fine which is the important part greg explained the cutaway

hopefuly they fit cuz the shell fit is everything, but only you can tell that

I was using the Mercury as an area boot and found it stiff enough for lotus 120's so from the few days I've put on Vulcans the boot is way stiff and should be more than enough, you can leave the tongues out and have more ROM

The good thing about Intuition in Vancover is they only sell liners & fit boots so you will get the best job possible and they got ALL the liners in all the sizes so i was able to try 3 different liners, after extensive carpet testing in moms condo I was even able to go back 2 weeks later and switch to the PW's, make sure you call for an apointment cuz they expect you to make an apointment (they have great hrs) especialy If you think you will need more punching cuz at the time they just started doing punchs so not all the staff were doing punches but that may have changed?

[shafty85]

they look to be in pretty good shape, the toe fitting looks fine the cup of the fitting looks fine which is the important part greg explained the cutaway

hopefuly they fit cuz the shell fit is everything, but only you can tell that

I was using the Mercury as an area boot and found it stiff enough for lotus 120's so from the few days I've put on Vulcans the boot is way stiff and should be more than enough, you can leave the tongues out and have more ROM

The good thing about Intuition in Vancover is they only sell liners & fit boots so you will get the best job possible and they got ALL the liners in all the sizes so i was able to try 3 different liners, after extensive carpet testing in moms condo I was even able to go back 2 weeks later and switch to the PW's, make sure you call for an apointment cuz they expect you to make an apointment (they have great hrs) especialy If you think you will need more punching cuz at the time they just started doing punchs so not all the staff were doing punches but that may have changed?

Agreed on the Mercurys - plenty stiff, especially with a booster strap. Some people find the Vulcan too stiff. I'd go with whichever can be had cheapest and modify as desired.
If you can make it to the intuition store in Vancouver, I'd also recommend. Can dial in which liner you want and Tom is a fantastic boot fitter (when I was there 2 seasons ago, I got the impression that intuition had hired him as their only boot fitter and that he would be handling that side of the services for them). He's good at what he does and super knowledgeable about touring boots.

[Kufo]

I'm going for it! I'm going to give them a call and buy the used Vulcan's tomorrow! Sub $500 for a pair of Vulcan's I'm pretty stoked. And thank you Shafty, I will make a priority to get into Intuition before ski season. Vancouver is about 7 hours away but for the purpose it's worth it, I may bump down to Seattle anyhow and visit a friend. GregL, XXX-Er, Lindahl and anyone who I may have missed you've been wonderful wealth's of knowledge and really helped me come to this decision confidently, thank you for that.

[XXX-er]

If you can make it to the intuition store in Vancouver, I'd also recommend. Can dial in which liner you want and Tom is a fantastic boot fitter (when I was there 2 seasons ago, I got the impression that intuition had hired him as their only boot fitter and that he would be handling that side of the services for them). He's good at what he does and super knowledgeable about touring boots.

Crystal has been cooking liners there for 15 yrs but I don't think she was doing punches 2 yrs ago (may have changed?) so if you want a punch you better call ahead and mention that

I seen a guy from the USA bring up 7 pair of boots he got from backcountry.com to get fit... find THE boot & return 6 pair

[Kufo]

Bought em this morning! $425 cdn + shipping. Pretty stoked. Also had my local ski shop call me to let me know the marker kingpins I had ordered were in as well! 6-13 DIN for those no fall areas

[sethschmautz]

Also had my local ski shop call me to let me know the marker kingpins I had ordered were in as well! 6-13 DIN for those no fall areas

Did you ask for the ones without the defective toe pieces? If you aren't aware, there have been several (many?) who had the toe pins fail.

[Kufo]

Thanks for the heads up on that. Yeah I got the 2016 ones new release.