Traditional sidecut/camber skis--do they even still exist?

[Buster Highmen]

OK, old man, I can out methuselah you on or off the race course and I did all that shit on old school 210 Kneissl Red Stars or Dynamic VR17s back in the day before fat skis made unpacked snow available to all these poseurs.

But a flat cambered ski, like DPS Lotus 120 does make turn initiation easier, amazingly so.

And a big fat forebody makes it so you can weight the front of the ski in soft snow like no old skool skinny ever supported.

I concede that the enormous rocker like the DPS RP112 is not my cuppa nor do I have any tolerance for the "shaped" shit of the 80s, but I really do think that a lot of the new ski tech in the width and flat camber is a boon to the industry even if it allows the nubutants (conglomerants of nutant and debuttante) to ski up the snow that was once left for the k00ks.

[Dexter Rutecki]

OK, old man, I can out methuselah you on or off the race course and I did all that shit on old school 210 Kneissl Red Stars or Dynamic VR17s back in the day before fat skis made unpacked snow available to all these poseurs.

Ha, my go-to pow ski once upon a time was a 208 Kastle RX12 GS board. Used those things (in the newer, green iteration) until the day a guy at Jackson on 190cm K2 Fours smoked me on the race course.

even if it allows the nubutants (conglomerants of nutant and debuttante) to ski up the snow that was once left for the k00ks.

It is something else how quickly the soft snow gets skied out these days--once upon a time skiing pow was sort of a skill, now it's like snowboarding (it's easy and anyone can do it). You just gotta go out a little further than you used to...

[Buster Highmen]

You just gotta go out a little further than you used to...

No one has ever accused me of being insufficiently far out.

So there.

Anyway, try a fatster that has less rocker like a DPS Lotus 120 or Praxis GPO or ...

they're out there.

[Bite Me]

Having been a Dynastar afficianado until the Cham series, and still having 8K and MR's sitting on the least coast as my only skis there, I feel your pain.

You're right, Kastle has a bunch of non-rockered, cambered skis, and MX88's and MX108's (sadly discontinued, and the BMX 108 is NOT a substitute) are in two quivers in SLC and WB. That's fine, but as long as the snow isn't too hard, I spend all day on my Patrons, that, yes, have rocker, but also have camber, and can rail turns like a mofo, just freaking rails. OK, if it's real hard, the MX88's come out, but apart from that, raiding the rails of some Patrons is a worthy pursuit.

[Mofro261]

I love the DPS 120, ski them as often as I can. But unlike Buster, they are not my go-to everyday for inbounds when variable snow, ice, bumps, and groomers rule the day. They are very capable, but the 120 under foot is a disadvantage for laying over on hard snow, and carbon fiber is not a substitute for metal. Besides, how many people out there skiing 120 under foot even sharpen their edges?

Most of these days are reserved for the trusty Legend Pros, but even the newer versions with early rise/ subtle tip rocker are sometimes a compromise- yes the turn initiation is easier, but as someone who skis forward with pressure on the tongue of the boot, the skis can fold instead of offering the rebound and acceleration I'm looking for coming out of the turn like a true GS stick. Of course this is most noticeable when trying to arc turns smaller than the radius of the ski- and why rocker or some version of it has come to modern race skis where the radius is 35M but the sets are often 27-30M, it's just easier for guys who don't weigh 250lbs to crank the turns.

Having skied multiple iterations of the L120, definitely look toward the stiffer flexes if you want more GS-like performance, and find model years where the rocker is more subtle.

[adrenalated]

Praxis GPO

I own a pair of these, and while I think it is a great ski, I wouldn't particularly recommend it to an old-school guy that really likes to drive the tips hard. It can definitely be overpowered and dive/hook with too much tip pressure, and responds better to more relaxed, weight just slightly forward on ball of feet kind of stance. From Praxis, the RX is much better suited to the tip-driving guy, as are the Lotus 120 and even ON3P Billy Goat (despite that ski appearing to have more rocker).

[Buster Highmen]

Sorry, I didn't mean to claim that the Lotus 120 is an all round ski (particularly given last years PNW conditions), only to say that a couple of its features service Dex's objectives of being able to pressure the front of the ski and initiate turns easily.

I can think of no old school race board that supports weight forward in soft snow like fat skis do in general and the 120s are butter to turn, even the 200 cms for an old geezer like me.

I admit to still pulling out the longboards or the GotoMommas and even the Stocklis on groimer days, but I stay in the shadows and only admit it to friends.

No fat ski is going to rock the groim like a midfat or skinny.

[ak_powder_monkey]

there's plenty of ski companies advertising "groomer rocker" which I find hilarious because the "rocker" is simply the tip turned up.

But yeah it's frustrating. I just want all the 2004 fat skis back, for the resort.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I can think of no old school race board that supports weight forward in soft snow like fat skis do in general

To be clear, I never meant to give the impression that I think any old school (or new school, for that matter) race ski could ever compete with a fat ski in soft snow. I realized that after my first turn on a pair of Atomic Heli Dogs back in the mid-90's (and obviously those things suck compared to what we have now). If there is more than 3 or 4" of snow to sink into 100mm width is a minimum for me. I was only talking about traditional shape and camber in terms of what I want (or think I want, anyway--it seems more difficult to define camber vs. rocker than I thought).

I admit to still pulling out the longboards or the GotoMommas and even the Stocklis on groimer days, but I stay in the shadows and only admit it to friends.

I pledge to only share this information with those who still sport the Lesbostrap 9000 (featuring a full chin strap--phUnk has an extra if you need it).

No fat ski is going to rock the groim like a midfat or skinny.

True on that as well, but I've started more than one kerfuffle here by making that claim (bro-brahs who won't deign to ski anything skinnier than 110mm even on the iciest of days take offense at the idea that their carved turns (or turns they think they're carving) might be inferior to those made on 64mm GS boards). So, you know, I'm steering clear of that for now.

[jgb@etree]

^ You might like the 192 bros. They're fattish (114 iirc?) at the waist, but still rail damn near as hard as the superbros, and are probably half the weight. My bsl is 325 & can easily adjust them to 315ish if you want to take them for a spin this winter.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Still certainly consider 110+ to be fat and would love to take them for a lap or two--thanks! Definitely a fan of PM Gear skis.

[Aldo]

Yep. Despite have a pretty respectable quiver, I find myself pulling superbro's off the rack damn near every morning that I ski.

/stunt double/

[neufox47]

there's plenty of ski companies advertising "groomer rocker" which I find hilarious because the "rocker" is simply the tip turned up.

But yeah it's frustrating. I just want all the 2004 fat skis back, for the resort.

You sure about that? Most may not show a splay when cambered but if you flatten them together the tip splays. That is how my Kendos are and lots of other skis including GS skis. Love my Kendos for the ice coast daily driver. They suck in pow though.

[Tye 1on]

Still certainly consider 110+ to be fat and would love to take them for a lap or two--thanks! Definitely a fan of PM Gear skis.

if some 188 'Softs' might fill a niche let me know.

[Timberridge]

praxis Rx

A man needs something to dream about. I fear if I buy a pair, what will my new dream be?

[tuco]

A man needs something to dream about. I fear if I buy a pair, what will my new dream be?

23 y.o. stripper chicks?

[ClarkleberryFinn]

190 OG Moment Bibby Pros (or Blister Pros, or whatever they call them now).

Yeah they have rockered tips and tails, but not as much as the DPS Bananas. They also have a long cambered/sidecut section, and are nicely stiff. You can rail them hard on groomers and get plenty of rebound. You can also rail them and drive the tips in GS-style powder turns in a way that you just can't on skis without tip rocker.

Personally I now prefer something looser and driftier in powder, but the Bibbys are great skis.

[El Chupacabra]

If anyone is looking - I bought two pair that I don't think I'll keep. Blizzard Titan Zeus, with IQ Max sliders, brand new. I have both 185 and 193 cm. They're 140-120-125, slight rocker (mostly appears when decambering the ski). $150/ pair.

I really liked these when I demoed them years ago, but now I'm pretty much set on DPS for pow skis, so I'm not going to keep these.

[LightRanger]

Dex,

Check out page 54 of the September issue of Powder. Came in the mail today. Was flipping through it, saw the piece on that page and this thread immediately came to mind.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Dex,

Check out page 54 of the September issue of Powder. Came in the mail today. Was flipping through it, saw the piece on that page and this thread immediately came to mind.

Heh, forgot about this thread and late in reading my ski mags, but I had sort of the same thought reading through Powder just now. Lotta people out there getting by on very questionable technique who would have been SOL years ago--especially in deep snow. Fortunately you still have racing and bump skiing that doesn't allow for tail-gunning butt-swivelers (NTTAWWT).

[Benny Profane]

Are we talking east or west?

[raisingarizona13]

Shmearing or whatever ya wanna call it is a great tool to use when appropriate but when I see footage of someone going straight fall line down a wide powder filled couloir wind shield wiping their skis back and forth I cringe a little. But hey, I'm 40 now so what the heck do I know. Maybe that looks cool to a kid but personally I think it looks like shit and that person is missing out on the greatest sensation of skiing.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Are we talking east or west?

py skiers who have never felt the front of their boots? They're everywhere. I see them in Whistler, EC, Euroland...well, they've always been in Euroland so you can't blame the skis. Only Americans are there for the skiing. Time for dejeuner et un peut du vin, so who cares.

[regct]

Shmearing or whatever ya wanna call it is a great tool to use when appropriate but when I see footage of someone going straight fall line down a wide powder filled couloir wind shield wiping their skis back and forth I cringe a little. But hey, I'm 40 now so what the heck do I know. Maybe that looks cool to a kid but personally I think it looks like shit and that person is missing out on the greatest sensation of skiing.

So fucking annoying

[regct]

No mention yet of the Moment Ruby. Fun ski, fat, fully traditional everything.