27.5+.....has the industry gone full moron?

[Damian Sanders]

To me, this is a bad idea:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post12015122

2.2" Maxxis IKON on a 31.6mm internal rim.......good luck with that.

[muted]

Well, wether the industry has gone full moron is up for debate, but there's no question Aaron and Damian have gone full moron trying to prove some point nobody cares about anymore.

[Damian Sanders]

I said wider, not 30-35 mm rim. How does it feel to be so stupid?

You suck at the internet. A wider rim today is 30mm internal or more, which is commonly available.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ms-941499.html

[MagnificentUnicorn]

A classic 2.35" DHF is 52-559 etrto. According to this chart, you shouldn't put it on an 30mm or 35mm internal rim.

You wrote this:



No, it's not. It's an industry / internet fad for people who can't corner. And you're an idiot.

That tire chart doesn't even have 30-35 width rims. What it does say is that is would be appropriate to put a 2.125" tire on a 29 mm rim. That's what I was saying in the last quote you put up. I said WIDER rim and NARROWER tire, I didn't use any specific numbers.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You suck at the internet. A wider rim today is 30mm or more, which is commonly available.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ms-941499.html

What are you, like 12? You're wrong and now you're just making shit up.

[jm2e]

Well, wether the industry has gone full moron is up for debate, but there's no question Aaron and Damian have gone full moron trying to prove some point nobody cares about anymore.

x2

[Damian Sanders]

What are you, like 12? You're wrong and now you're just making shit up.

Just keep telling yourself that, it must make you feel so special.

[zion zig zag]

New new standard:http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/featu.../iceman2058,94

[ghosthop]

New new standard:http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/featu.../iceman2058,94

because the dirtbike wasn't cutting it?

it continues to impress how far some people can fit a head up their ass

[kidwoo]

because the dirtbike wasn't cutting it?

Nah it's because between suspension setup, tire pressure, water, the right shoes, extra tools/tubes, loose bolts, sticky pivots, cable stretch, and bent rotors, there just wasn't enough shit to check before going on a simple bike ride. Now battery charging.......now we're talkin!

[rip]

because the dirtbike wasn't cutting it?

it continues to impress how far some people can fit a head up their ass

Dirtbikes don't weigh 44 lbs.

So rad. IMO Biking is at an awesome point right now. You purist dudes are like ol Gary Fischer skiddin down fire roads. Some amazing shit is coming down the pipe, just dodge the beaters and enjoy the ride!!

[HankScorpio]

because the dirtbike wasn't cutting it?

it continues to impress how far some people can fit a head up their ass

It's only $9k. That could buy you a dirt bike and beater pick up to haul it around in.

[Damian Sanders]

Dirtbikes don't weigh 44 lbs.

So rad. IMO Biking is at an awesome point right now. You purist dudes are like ol Gary Fischer skiddin down fire roads. Some amazing shit is coming down the pipe, just dodge the beaters and enjoy the ride!!

I'm not a purist, but I don't believe in buying into every new hyped up product that comes down the pipeline. A well setup and dialed in bike is far more important (and lesst expensive) than the latest shiny new trinket.

[kidwoo]

Yeah, all this shit can pretty much be summed up in the last response on this page.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-quest...in-biking.html


This whole idea that mountainbiking wasn't accessible or that everyone who did it just hatched out of an egg in 1985 and was never a beginner is absurd. The only thing inaccessible about it was the price, and that is not what's changing. The opposite is occurring , because of dumb shit like new tire molds for slow tires, a wheelsize you have to move to in order to get new parts, and bikes that help you pedal. It's been hilarious watching the ski industry chase every population but the passionate reliable one, that will always go skiing. Now the bike industry seems like it wants to emulate that. Go after the absolute beginner and take his money, and go after the gullible casual participant with money who will believe any shiny new thing is an improvement and buy it immediately, often at the detriment to the reliable base that's the easiest to snag because they love the activity more than either of those two.

And if you find yourself sitting there about to type "why do you hate beginners?", you're completely missing the point. Because that would be absurd.

[stuckathuntermtn]

You make a good point. This shit is worse than computer parts. Way worse.

[Damian Sanders]

Yeah, all this shit can pretty much be summed up in the last response on this page.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-quest...in-biking.html


This whole idea that mountainbiking wasn't accessible or that everyone who did it just hatched out of an egg in 1985 and was never a beginner is absurd. The only thing inaccessible about it was the price, and that is not what's changing. The opposite is occurring , because of dumb shit like new tire molds for slow tires, a wheelsize you have to move to in order to get new parts, and bikes that help you pedal. It's been hilarious watching the ski industry chase every population but the passionate reliable one, that will always go skiing. Now the bike industry seems like it wants to emulate that. Go after the absolute beginner and take his money, and go after the gullible casual participant with money who will believe any shiny new thing is an improvement and buy it immediately, often at the detriment to the reliable base that's the easiest to snag because they love the activity more than either of those two.

And if you find yourself sitting there about to type "why do you hate beginners?", you're completely missing the point. Because that would be absurd.

Hah, I knew Ken Avery back in the day racing DH. Decent enough guy and a very good rider, but we all sort of thought he was a bit of a tool, and he was very focused on making it in the bike industry. Makes sense now, lol.

[TahoeJ]

Yeah, all this shit can pretty much be summed up in the last response on this page.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-quest...in-biking.html

I read that this morning and really loved everything Charlie Sponsel said at the end. All of this "growing the sport" bullshit just like you hear in skiing. It's already crowded enough on powder days, why do I want more people out there? As for MTB, I'm a fan of rocks and roots and trails that are perfectly smooth get boring quick. They have their place of course.

----

"That's an easy one. The worst mistake in the history of mountain biking is the industry's recent obsession with ''growing the sport.''

In industry circles it's taken as gospel truth that more consumers is always better. ''A rising tide floats all boats,'' they say, and that logic has been used to justify any and all efforts to attract new mountain bike consumers, no matter how marginal these consumers may be, and no matter how disinterested they may be in the actual act of mountain biking.

''If we can attract new riders, we can finally do XYZ policy initiative,'' they say. With ''new riders'' apparently being the self-evident solution for everything from slow revenue-growth at your favourite bike brand, to race support, to trail access problems in your riding community. Obviously the reason XYZ bike brand had to cut your favourite rider off the downhill team is because they didn't sell enough SLX-equipped hardtails. The reason you can't have a new jump trail at your local riding area is because there aren't enough green-level beginner loops. ''If only we could attract more new riders, then we could finally do [fill in the blank with your preferred pipe dream].''

Mountain biking is a beautiful thing. It's also an inherently dangerous activity, but it rewards you in proportion to the risks you take. Point down the hill and you go fast. Let off the brakes and you go faster. The less you brake in turns, the more speed you carry out. Want to catch some air? You'll have to leave the ground first. Risk is as essential to the sport as wheels or handlebars. If you don't want to skin your knee, get lost, get hypothermia or bonk from time to time, you never want to risk wearing a cast for a few weeks, and you want your trails smoothly groomed, straight with good sight lines, well-marked and not too fast or pointed downhill, maybe you should take up jogging or spin class instead of mountain biking.

And yet these are exactly the sort of marginal consumers that bicycle manufacturers, trail builders, and bike parks are drooling for the chance to ''bring into the sport.'' I have no problem with more people riding bikes, and I don't even have a problem with growing the sport. But the idea of lowering the bar or dumbing down mountain biking to make it more appealing to marginal consumers who could just as soon be in Zumba class? It's insulting, it's offensive, and it's counter-productive.

Mountain biking is amazing. It's so much fun that it's basically ruined my life. From my first trip to Whistler I was hooked, and despite countless crashes, flat tires, wrong turns, rainy days, concussions, broken bones, surgeries, and more losing race results than I'd care to remember, I keep coming back to mountain bikes, and I probably will for the rest of my life. And hey, no one had to dumb it down for me to get hooked. Let's sell that idea instead. Let's sell mountain biking as its real self instead of some spoon fed, bite-sized harmless fitness/healthy outdoor lifestyle-based shadow of itself. And guess what? If you don't want to skin your knee, there are lots of other healthy outdoor lifestyle sports out there for you, like rollerblading, geocaching, or frisbee golf.

Lets market our sport honestly so we can attract like-minded individuals instead of trying to trick disinterested potential consumers into a slower, safer, dumber version of ''Mountain Bike Lite.'' Maybe if we do that we can enjoy riding with passionate, knowledgeable, dedicated lifelong consumers instead of weaving through mobs of weekend warrior working dads trying out a new alternative to spin class. And out of those two demographics, bonus points if you can guess who gives more money back to the industry.

[JeffreyJim]

Lets market our sport honestly so we can attract like-minded individuals instead of trying to trick disinterested potential consumers into a slower, safer, dumber version of ''Mountain Bike Lite.'' Maybe if we do that we can enjoy riding with passionate, knowledgeable, dedicated lifelong consumers instead of weaving through mobs of weekend warrior working dads trying out a new alternative to spin class. And out of those two demographics, bonus points if you can guess who gives more money back to the industry.

http://theteamrobot.blogspot.com/

Spend some time on his blog. #Robotsarethetruth

[joetron]

I've been having similar thoughts lately. Was Creaky right all along?

[kidwoo]

Hah, I knew Ken Avery back in the day racing DH. Decent enough guy and a very good rider, but we all sort of thought he was a bit of a tool, and he was very focused on making it in the bike industry. Makes sense now, lol.

Do you know what tire they're referencing with this?

While Ken's name might not be familiar to some outside of the industry, he's the man who's largely responsible for one of the most widely used Maxxis downhill tires in recent times.

Cuz they flew Colin Bailey's name on the OG minions, and I know the guy who came up with the DHR2, HR2, and shorty. Wayne Parsons had most of the suggestions for the HR2.

That leaves...............nothing else worth a shit that maxxis makes.

[ghosthop]

Where is creaky? Did he get banned for posting people's info or just in a timeout?

Dirtbikes don't weigh 44 lbs.

Dirtbikes don't weigh 44lbs because their riders aren't worried about shaving every last gram. Because they're powered by a motor. Maybe check your sig rip, this thing looks like just another trick.

[Damian Sanders]

Do you know what tire they're referencing with this?

While Ken's name might not be familiar to some outside of the industry, he's the man who's largely responsible for one of the most widely used Maxxis downhill tires in recent times.

Cuz they flew Colin Bailey's name on the OG minions, and I know the guy who came up with the DHR2, HR2, and shorty. Wayne Parsons had most of the suggestions for the HR2.

That leaves...............nothing else worth a shit that maxxis makes.

No idea. When I knew him everyone was running mobsters and high rollers if I recall, he was sponsored by maxxis and helped with development a bit. I guess they hired him full time after that. You would think most of their tires are designed and tested by the same product team, which it seems he is credited with being on, if you look around the 'net.

[joetron]

Based on the conversation I had with a Vittoria person, they are talking Minion DHF. Vittoria's casings are awesome, hopefully they can bring some treads. I've heard good things about the Goma, but I remain skeptical.

[pureantigravity]

Yeah, all this shit can pretty much be summed up in the last response on this page.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-quest...in-biking.html


Go after the absolute beginner and take his money, and go after the gullible casual participant with money who will believe any shiny new thing is an improvement and buy it immediately, often at the detriment to the reliable base that's the easiest to snag because they love the activity more than either of those two.

OK. Not what I see.

The people that seem to go through bikes like skis here are all the core riders.

Sure, there a lot of first timers and casual users on top line rides, but the dedicated crowd spend way more, and way more often.

But what does the actual industry data show?

For the record, i think 27.5+ is a great idea. It meets a legit need for bikes that can rodeo the less developed trails and the poorly maintained trails. And further, it adds a few more months to the riding season.

[Damian Sanders]

Based on the conversation I had with a Vittoria person, they are talking Minion DHF. Vittoria's casings are awesome, hopefully they can bring some treads. I've heard good things about the Goma, but I remain skeptical.

Seems like he started working for them well before the DHF's introduction, so it's very believeable that he was (very?) involved with it's development.