Are there any affordable hippie mountain towns left?

[hatchgreenchile]

if you fell for the trap of debt credit cards car payments marriage kids nice job and the desperation for normalcy than you might be fucked

why does everyone have to explain everything that happens good to average people as a secrete trust fund or mommy and daddy sending cash

I'm going skiing today, mountain bike day trip tue, maybe the big city (denver) on friday to see how the other 99% live, I"ll work 6 hrs on monday put a body suit on a resperator booties and make more money in six hrs than you do in a week

I laughed. I'll give you that.

You're painting a broad stroke here. Much like the crafty ski town residents, there are plenty of suburban/city dwellers who also don't have Audi payments, minimize their debt, budget and take their share of risks. Let's not pretend it's that easy. If it was, I'd have my 1000sf home in Telluride by now.

If your solution is to avoid a wife, kid, good paying employment and some type of savings account, have at it, the dream is yours.

[GeezerSteve]

hippies ski fishscales on logging roads

[TahoeJ]

Maybe for principal and interest.. $400k mortgage (3.75%) with taxes, insurance and mortgage insurance (if your state forces you to have it) is just under 3k, trust me

More like $2500. And then you have to take into account how much less tax you'll be paying on your income due to writing off the interest and property tax you're paying. It ends up being the equivalent of paying around $1800 per month to rent. The only downside of course is unexpected maintenance costs, but it also gets you into the "game."

At a certain point it makes more sense to buy a house and rent out a room if you need to, if otherwise you're going to be renting with roommates anyway. I know a lot of people who did this and it worked out pretty well for them in the long run.

[Name Redacted]

PMI is for suckers.

$2189 with taxes and insurance.

[Bromontana]

I've previously dismissed it because it feels a little too much like Charlottesville, but Estes Park has good climbing, good touring, near USFS & RMNP, moderate elevation (7500) and prices aren't that nutty. Under $300k is available for a SFH, with some around $200k a little outside town. Only driven through there in peak season on the way to Utah so my experience may not be accurate.

[babybear]

No one was saying anything about your precious baby bear or whatever. I'm just calling bullshit bullshit when I see it. No one is working at a descent job while the sig other plays pro skier and works part time and can live the "dream" in Jackson Hole without some help from family. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't be in that position and tell someone like me how it can be done when you have no idea what it's like to be a working slob struggling to make ends meet.

Some of you are so full of shit.

I haven't read since the 1st or 2nd pgs and I think some got my point- everyone just has the narrative that it can't be done and it can. If people don't want to believe it then go ahead and don't- I just like encourage others to actually think about it. We do make more here generally than a lot of other small towns too and that is a factor that makes it work. If you need proof just come grab a beer with us sometime. I definitely worked multiple jobs when I first moved here and then settled into an office job that makes average salary here. I work super hard too- but yes I definitely got tired of scraping the schedules together and 1 Mon- Fri job here pays more than multiple PT jobs so maybe you might consider chking that option out? Fortunately most of the professionals/ biz owners here understand that people want to get out and have flexible ski schedules (unfortunately my job doesn't) and also really great vacation time off.
Yes our cars are 10 yrs old but we also ride our bikes a ton (excellent bike paths here), we camp a lot- yes 'sacrifices' in some places and to some people, but they don't seem like sacrifices to us.

I think a lot of this talk about it being unattainable is more the first time buyer/ sticker shock too- once you weigh pros and cons of places, you can get your money's worth here. There are definitely cheaper homes/ real estate elsewhere but we know we'd also be making less for doing essentially the same job as here. So basically any home buyer (that is in any desirable place for outdoors-people) and doesn't want to work 2+ jobs will probably be pretty broke. So why not be broke in the place that makes you happy?
If other things are important to you, then maybe yes this is not the place, but guess I just wanted to offer an alternative narrative to the usual that it's unobtainable bc we are grateful everyday that we gave it a go.
And for the zillionth time we have no trust fund etc.

[Groomer Gambler]

I've got a semi for the Wallowas. Checked out a lake up to the NE side with good access but it looks pretty far from civilization. Prices are modest considering the proximity to the Wilderness, USFS, and lake. Anyone spend time there?

I just moved to Lewiston, ID and so far this seems like a rad area. Lots of rednecks and not a lot happening in the city itself but top notch fishing and tons of other recreational opportunities all within a few hours drive.

After spending months on the job market I think the days of "I really want to live (Jackson, Whistler, etc. etc any ski town) really close to the mountain, bars, etc." are over. In todays economy you gotta take what you can get. Real gaper move is moving to trendy hiptastic, trustfund baby area driving real estate up the ass. A Real ski bum hippy would live in a shitty area where living costs are cheap...

[Groomer Gambler]

No one was saying anything about your precious baby bear or whatever. I'm just calling bullshit bullshit when I see it. No one is working at a descent job while the sig other plays pro skier and works part time and can live the "dream" in Jackson Hole without some help from family. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't be in that position and tell someone like me how it can be done when you have no idea what it's like to be a working slob struggling to make ends meet.

Some of you are so full of shit.

This. I went to a private EC college and most of the graduates who then played the hippy card to find themselves and moved to places like jackson all had family support through college and continuing afterwards. Granted, that's not everyone but people who work as bar tenders, baristas, etc in ritzy mountain towns with crazy rent, new car, and can still afford to go out have had handouts along the way.

That even applies to places like NYC. Bullshit kids who got art degrees and then want to "struggle to make it in the city" making 25-30k a year or even volunteer, guess what? Who pays for their $2000 a month studio in Williamsburg...daddy.

This happens everywhere in America as the income gap continues to grow.

[tahoe420]

Tahoma,Ca worked out for us. Poverty with a view, and 100+ days on the hills.

[GeezerSteve]

but it also gets you into the "game."

The essence of being a hippie is to be outside the game.

[TahoeJ]

The essence of being a hippie is to be outside the game.

Hmm... except for the whole part about owning your own land and trying to live off it.

[Name Redacted]

The essence of being a hippie is to be outside the game.

"Hippie" is a very broad term.

[GeezerSteve]

"Hippie" is a very broad term

to the point of being meaningless as the term is thrown around on this thread

[babybear]

media- I DO feel for renters- totally not a good situation and also tough for single people to own here. and to rent with animals is nearly impossible and I know you have a dog- that's one of the reasons we took the plunge to own- we love dags too.
I know alpine is not glamorous, but we find ourselves spending a lot of time there and it's quite cheap + you still get the benefit of no state income tax.
Seems like your job can be done from anywhere too so that is pretty sweet.

[babybear]

I heard if you move to Leavenworth you have to wear lederhosen at least 4 days a week to fit in. Plus I'm pretty sure, based on the Google, there is a major prison there. Next!

funny!

[babybear]

Agreed. You ain't gonna buy a $400k house washing dishes at night but a decent professional full time and part time job could easily cover the mortgage, especially if there's no kids, no car payments on a new Audi and you're good at budgeting. Of course a solid down payment helps, financing 100% of it would be a little rough unless one of those jobs is a very well paid gig. But hell, she may be a CFO of the local credit union, PE at an architect company, etc pulling in 6 figures for all we know, entirely possible to enjoy skiing and have a good job.

From the sounds of it though the OP won't be qualified for 6 figure employment and probably doest have a couple hundred thou to help with a down payment so a 400k house probably isn't in his future unless he finds a rich women. Come to think of it, maybe this is a good lesson. Hey bud, find a girl like little bear that haas a good job and is cool only having you work part time. She's a keeper.

why thank you. This is one of the things I like about it here though- lots of interesting/ good paying jobs and hey if I've gotta be a w/e warrior, I'd rather be one close to where I want to be on the w/e's.

[galibier_numero_un]

why thank you. This is one of the things I like about it here though- lots of interesting/ good paying jobs and hey if I've gotta be a w/e warrior, I'd rather be one close to where I want to be on the w/e's.

And therein lies a key awareness ... those who want it all, may well end up with nothing. It's pretty much like any other form of risk/reward analysis. Everyone has a different tolerance, and one person's decisions may or may not work for someone else. If you can live with the consequences of your decisions, you're good

Cheers,
Thom

[abraham]

hippies ski fishscales on logging roads

Uh oh, that's how I learned to ski. I might be part hippy?

[himavan]

How about Durango? It seems to have a cool friendly vibe. Not sure if real estate is cheap enough, and yeah, I know Purgatory ain't that impressive, but you have wolf creek, telluride, and silverton in easy driving distance. And a days drive from lots of amazing areas for other activities. Great biking, a river, etc. And more going on in the town with the college.

[GPP33]

why thank you. This is one of the things I like about it here though- lots of interesting/ good paying jobs and hey if I've gotta be a w/e warrior, I'd rather be one close to where I want to be on the w/e's.

That's another good point. If a $400k dollar house is your reality then chances are a M-F job is as well.

[tone capone]

Baby Bear, any sisters or cousins looking to live a modest suburbanite lifestyle in a fun filled and vibrant valley not too far away under the big sky? She can have weekends free and no car payments neccessary on my collection of 20+ yr old station wagons. Please post pics

Sorry, had to do it. All due respect.

[neckdeep]

Media310, last time I looked, 60% of the people who live in Teton Valley are working in Jackson. Time for you to join that club or move on. But guess what, since Jackson has totally given up providing worker housing, now the rental crisis has moved to Idaho. Affordable housing (under $1000/mo) is at 98-99% occupancy and every month a few more small houses get switched over to AirBnB rentals. Rents are shooting up fast. So cry me a river, displaced Jackson dude, the people who actually live and work in the Teton Valley are now competing for housing against Jackson wages and that is if they can even find a place. Empty lots are still cheap but affordable and available cabins...forget it. Thanks to Jackson's displaced multitudes and AirBnB, the law of supply and demand has totally switched over to favor landlords. "Hippies" seeking cheap mountain lifestyles should not look to the Teton Valley any more unless they plan to build instead of rent.

And I 'd also point out Baby Bear didn't buy in today's market. The time to buy was 2009-2011 when real estate was tainted with fear and failure. But the stock market is insane again and once again the Fed's endless cheap money supply has pushed asset prices beyond common sense. The average home price in J-Hole is now $3M and new housing is being built at around $1100 per sq.ft.. I doubt Baby Bear could find her house today. So take it with a grain of salt when someone who bought into Jackson in the past tells you its still doable. $400,000 Jackson mortgages like Baby Bear's were rare to begin during the bust years and are now likely a thing of the past given how Jackson's market gets white hot every time the 1% is making a killing in the stock market (like right now). Anyone ask her how much her home has appreciated since she bought it? Anyhow, no way are there remotely enough $400,000 fixer-uppers to go around, if they still even exist (Notice that Jackson recently had to ban AirBnB short term rentals to keep the wealthy folks from buying up all the small houses and turning them into $150-200 night rentals.). If everyone in her circumstances got responsible, budgeted and drove old cars etc...well, it would just mean more people competing for that limited bottom end of the market and even higher prices for shitty options.

A quick scan of Zillow shows that these days $400K gets you between 750-1500 sq. ft. in an older condo development in town. Lawns are for people with $600-700K to spend on a small 30-40 year old house. This is laughable. Jackson doesn't have homes, it has high end investments with roofs. When politicians talk about "affordable housing" in Jackson, they are talking about subsidizing $600-800K homes for the essential personnel at the hospital and other medical/healthcare services. The developers (and many home owners) resist even this limited "affordable" housing for essential services personnel. For the blue collar city employees who keep the town running, they got nothin'. Jackson is NIMBY personified. Soon, they'll be paying over $20 an hour just to find warm bodies to do their unskilled grunt work for them. They are already paying $15/hr to start for grocery store jobs that in Idaho will start at only $8 and top out at $11 after years of work. Food, there's a not-so-hidden cost of living in Jackson. Ever compare the price of healthcare in Jackson to Idaho Falls? Getting eyeglasses or going to the dentist? Car repairs? The cost of skiing? It's all outrageous. Eventually, more and more summer tourist business and jobs are going to get driven over to Teton Valley or West Yellowstone and that suits the NIMBY folks in J-Hole just fine. The goal is to drive out everyone who isn't "our kind of people" and turn the place into the Hamptons. So fuck Jackson, they don't want you there anyway.

[Woolly the Mammoth]

Since there's a lot of Jackson folks commenting in this thread I'd like to take the opportunity to ask (plead) for you all to come to the Teton County Board of County Commissioners meeting this Wednesday morning at 9am regarding the Grove workforce housing development and speak in favor of the project. Forty-eight affordable units are at stake, and you can count on the vocal minority speaking against it. The commissioners need to hear from the members of the community that support housing the middle class. 9am at the county building on the corner of Willow and Simpson.

[Gravity's Gone]

Crestone, CO lotsa hippies/progressives with huge peaks (earn your turns) and within 3 hours of Taos and Wolf Creek...an hour or so from Monarch/Salida. Or as was mentioned earlier, Taos...possibly an earthship by the gorge. Peace bro
http://www.sangres.com/newmexico/tao...m#.VTwIlzkTsy4

Crestone is in a beautiful spot. It definitely meets the hippie requirement, but it's got too much weirdness for some. I keep thinking Del Norte will take off -- the new trails and 3 Barrel can't hurt a bit.

[Shredhead]

Since there's a lot of Jackson folks commenting in this thread I'd like to take the opportunity to ask (plead) for you all to come to the Teton County Board of County Commissioners meeting this Wednesday morning at 9am regarding the Grove workforce housing development and speak in favor of the project. Forty-eight affordable units are at stake, and you can count on the vocal minority speaking against it. The commissioners need to hear from the members of the community that support housing the middle class. 9am at the county building on the corner of Willow and Simpson.

I can't stress how important affordable employee housing is for a resort town.
Bag on Aspen all you want, but there's no question it's at the top for employee housing and public transportation.
Both of which help keep the hippies passive. That and legal weed.