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  1. #1
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    Construction Nerds - Opinion Wanted

    What do we think of this detail:



    They lost track of the grade somewhere along the way. The foundation wall is existing, it was saved but what was above was demoed and the 2x6 wall shown is new contruction and is currently framed and sheathed, not pressure-treated. The front entrance is above this detail, the idea is to keep the number of stairs to a minimum.

    The builder thinks it will be fine as drawn here, I'd like to hear what others think. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Not a fan of having the timber framing below grade. Where is it being built (climate wise)? Is there any chance for standing water - and I mean ANY chance, on either side of the wall? What kind of vapor barrier?

    The fact that you posted here tells me you have similar concerns. I'd see what you could do about getting the framing up on a starter wall and really moisture-proof the shit out of that CMU.

  3. #3
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    It's in New England. Shouldn't be any standing water as there will be swale going both ways along the foundation (the detail here basically creates top of the swale). The soil is sandy and porous and drains very well. The vapor barrier currently is from the Zip panels: http://www.huberwood.com/zipsystem/p...ip-system-roof but he wants to go over it with something else, not sure what that product is. The waterproofing on the outside of the block wall is not determined, maybe asphalt or something, he's looking into it. Thanks for your input.

  4. #4
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    Your builder should have raised the foundation wall or lower the grade right now you're asking for water and mold problems
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  5. #5
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    No doubt that wall should've been built up. I'm definitely worried about this "solution".

  6. #6
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    livin the dream
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    Looks like a bandaid... how much of that wall is built?
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  7. #7
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    Why not get a building envelope engineer/specialist involved? The additional cost may be worth it, seeing as you have the opportunity to, hopefully, get it right the 2nd time here.

    Quote Originally Posted by boarddad View Post
    Not a fan of having the timber framing below grade. Where is it being built (climate wise)? Is there any chance for standing water - and I mean ANY chance, on either side of the wall? What kind of vapor barrier?

    The fact that you posted here tells me you have similar concerns. I'd see what you could do about getting the framing up on a starter wall and really moisture-proof the shit out of that CMU.
    What is a starter wall?
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  8. #8
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    ... how much of that wall is built?
    The whole house is framed and sheathed and has windows. No plumbing or anything yet though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    Why not get a building envelope engineer/specialist involved? The additional cost may be worth it, seeing as you have the opportunity to, hopefully, get it right the 2nd time here.
    I've been thinking along those lines, or else just cut everything back, support it somehow, put in a couple rows of block, waterproof all that and then build it back to the top of the new block, above grade. That would fix it. Or maybe there's a plan "C" I can't think of.

  10. #10
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    So they cut the foundation back incorrectly in relation to the grade? Or is the grade to high wrt the planned grade? Changing the grade has been thrown out I assume?
    "These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"

  11. #11
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    Construction Nerds - Opinion Wanted

    Here's what I'd do, prob cheaper than all that bs stone, membrane gravel and perf pipe which will have to drain to daylight anyways

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTGR Forums1429586901.075156.jpg 
Views:	405 
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ID:	166438


    Edit to add: most codes require 6" min exposed concrete so bump the swale down the foundation a bit

  12. #12
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    No they didn't cut the wall back but the plan of the house changed drastically and this was a blank wall and now it's the front entrance. The idea was always to build a swale but either the elevations were wrong, or somebody misread them or something, not exactly sure yet. Bottom line is that wall should've been built up. Changing the grade all the way down puts the front entrance way the hell up in the air, like 10 stairs up.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmnpsplitter View Post
    Here's what I'd do, prob cheaper than all that bs stone, membrane gravel and perf pipe which will have to drain to daylight anyways

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTGR Forums1429586901.075156.jpg 
Views:	405 
Size:	702.5 KB 
ID:	166438
    Thanks yeah we're talking about something like that but the site and the front door location make it kind of complicated.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    Why not get a building envelope engineer/specialist involved? The additional cost may be worth it, seeing as you have the opportunity to, hopefully, get it right the 2nd time here.
    You should be able to get the local grace rep involved (or whatever div 7 product you are using)
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  15. #15
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    Bandaid for sure.

    Rather than Ice and water shield check out Prosocco CAT5; we use it out in the PNW for houses on the sound and that shit is awesome. No staples or anything like there would be with ice and water shield. You could spray it with a hose all day.

    If you do have to lower the grade it could be a sweet opportunity to build a badass front porch.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I've been thinking along those lines, or else just cut everything back, support it somehow, put in a couple rows of block, waterproof all that and then build it back to the top of the new block, above grade. That would fix it. Or maybe there's a plan "C" I can't think of.
    Even if you get one, there is no obligation to follow any of his/her recommendation(s), far as I know. They may point out issues/solutions/whatever that none of you had considered. I would think that the cost of a couple of hours of their time would be a good investment, especially if it saves you from rot/damage/repairs in the future - that location would make renovations/repairs/remediation an absolute nightmare.
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  17. #17
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    What does your architect say?
    (Not trying to be a dick...whoever designed the house should probably weigh in on this with a more wholistic view)
    Last edited by acinpdx; 04-20-2015 at 11:11 PM.

  18. #18
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    In theory, I don't see a problem. In reality, someone fucked up.

  19. #19
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    Bummer. Having to deal with MASSIVE water issues above normal expectations (you could have rafted into the office door!), I'd be concerned with water migrating up from below. One thing I'd consider adding to the band-aid would be water proofing directly to the sheathing and lapping over the mud sill/foundation joint behind the CMUs.

    Currently, I'm liking my new pond liner under a terrace area because I could not figure out where water was coming from and not getting captured by a double french drain before it migrated down to the footings.....even after I included 4' of pond liner under the upper drain during round two.


    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    What do we think of this detail:



    They lost track of the grade somewhere along the way. The foundation wall is existing, it was saved but what was above was demoed and the 2x6 wall shown is new contruction and is currently framed and sheathed, not pressure-treated. The front entrance is above this detail, the idea is to keep the number of stairs to a minimum.

    The builder thinks it will be fine as drawn here, I'd like to hear what others think. Thanks.
    Best regards, Terry
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    What does your architect say?
    Probably to move the rest of the world down a foot at a cost of $50k.


    FWIW, I mis-built a concrete deck ( the room that never happened) that was not correctly sloped and abutted the house wall 6" above the sill plate. 25 years later and for $$400 DIY, I raised the house and replaced the rotted plate (Upstate NY). So if fucking up makes me an expert, here I am. From your drawing, I would go with the builders solution but be sure to maintain the slope away from the house as it will settle over time. When and if it becomes a problem, your heirs will have to deal with it.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/1114641...85/SillRepair#
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    When and if it becomes a problem, your heirs will have to deal with it.
    Good point. File this under: (end-of-life purchases; things you can hand down to the next generation because you're sure they'll last)

  22. #22
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    My only concern is that Ice would not want to get the S-Class dirty carrying top soil from the Home Depot to maintain the slope. Very important. And then there would be the purchase of a shovel and gloves.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  23. #23
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    Feb 2004
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    the wasteland
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    Conditioned basement inside? Make sure you insulate on the outside of the wall.
    You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.

  24. #24
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    Wow, quite the mess. In addition to comments above I'll throw out a couple others. The proposed solution effectively makes a wood foundation as it's below grade. This will trigger a different set of code requirements and 99% sure that the wall as currently framed will not be in compliance. May not be an issue if you are far enough into the sticks that there is no code inspection.

    Second comment is I wouldn't use the block as the support for the stone. The block and stone will move differently from the foundation and wall. Better solution may be to bolt a piece of angle iron to the foundation to support the stone.

    FWIW, I would not accept that solution if it was my house or a project I was working on. It's going to be an expensive fix, but now is the time do it right. Either fix the foundation or lower the grade and deal with a monster set of front stairs.

  25. #25
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    Ice, that is a bummer. I know you said the plywood is on, but I would at least make them use PT plywood below grade. But overall, this is not a good situation. This is in UT though, right? At least it's drier than EC where exterior wood on my house is rotting above ground.

    Good luck

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