Squaw-Alpine Base to Base

[meter-man]

There is access to the buttress. It's called your legs.

Dude, they haven't opened the Legs access point since the wet winter of 2011.

[itsnowjoke]

Just a really expensive marketing ploy so that they can claim to be the biggest ski area in the country. Really only (I assume) shaves a few minutes off taking the shuttle, which few people do. I suppose they are banking on building up the "village" and using that as the primary bed-base for both ski areas, which would make the gondola attractive as a transportation option. Don't know if it would be good or bad if it provides access to the buttress - yes, it's great terrain, but it is rarely in good condition, and as it is now you lose a lot of vert and pass by a lot of other good stuff to access it.

If the expensive marketing ploy were the case, then it would be a REALLY expensive mistake. Because if this goes through, Park City / Canyons will still be 1300 acres bigger than a combined Squaw / Alpine. If Whitewolf were eventually included, would that tip the balance? I'm surmising it wouldn't, because it probably wouldn't exceed 1300 acres.

[BobMc]

If the expensive marketing ploy were the case, then it would be a REALLY expensive mistake. Because if this goes through, Park City / Canyons will still be 1300 acres bigger than a combined Squaw / Alpine. If Whitewolf were eventually included, would that tip the balance? I'm surmising it wouldn't, because it probably wouldn't exceed 1300 acres.

Yeah! What he said! You California people jus try an upstage us. We're willing to do whatever it takes, if market research says tourists want development we're prepared to put a Starbucks atop the Superior tram and not even think twice.

[idiot]

Does it still snow in Tahoe?

[gone2alpine]

No way in hell do 25% of skiers go to both mountains in the same day. No way. Maybe 25% of skiers have on one or two days during the entire season. I'm calling major BS on that.

I think if you count the many teams that are directed to Alpine on busy weekends, or the park teams heading to Squaw as there is no park at Alpine...some days it seems like there are 1000 squaw team kids at Alpine...maybe that effort has not been to alleviate crowding but to generate data to support the build out.

[LightRanger]

Wirth appears to be saying that they would run it to drop skiers at the top of the Alpine-side midstation as well as the KT ridge midstation...

Snowpack has affected KT’s ability to operate this winter. Are you concerned with the snowpack’s ability to get skiers from Squaw to Alpine and back again?
The snowpack won’t affect the gondola running from base to base. There will be circumstances where if we are not able to run KT-22, from the base of Squaw to the KT ridge could run as a stand-alone autonomist segment of the gondola, as can the base of Alpine to the Alpine located angle on load/off load station. Current designs are to operate those independent of each other even if we don’t operate the middle section that enables the crossing.

http://www.powder.com/stories/news/s...-base-gondola/

[old goat]

There is a way to alleviate the crowds on KT22. It's called Oly Lady. Replace that and Red Dog and Squaw Creek with high speed/ high wind lifts and then RUN THEM. Don't need a gondola for that.

[alTAos]

around 25 percent of skiers, or one out of four, ski both mountains on any day."

HA, I don't think he understand percentages...i bet he's off two decimals. 0.25%? sounds a lot closer.

Some folks might park at one, grab their skis and head to the other. But actually make turns on both mountains? Less than 1%.

[mcski]

There is a way to alleviate the crowds on KT22. It's called Oly Lady. Replace that and Red Dog and Squaw Creek with high speed/ high wind lifts and then RUN THEM. Don't need a gondola for that.

This. And I get sick thinking of all that hike-to terrain suddenly getting a lift access point. Still a long way out and mostly PR but would certainly erase a lot of stashes.

[Shred Baron]

In the video Andy says the gondola will have a capacity of 1400 people per hour. A double chair generally has a capacity of 1200. So running it on a storm day would be like opening oly lady.

[emcee]

Over in the tahoe thread the prevailing theory is that it's a marketing stunt to drive pass sales for next year.

It sort of feels like it is a pipe dream. 3 years ago KSL also said they would be upgrading red dog and granite chairs and haven't done so; why would it be different for a project many times the size and budget?

[The AD]

Did the peak-to-peak at whistler improve the experience for the average passholder? Or do they ride it once or twice a season?

My guess is W/B doesn't really care about "the average passholder." They are concerned with tourists coming to ski for a week, and I'll bet that kind of skier gets considerable use out of the Peak 2 Peak. I average a few ski days a year at Whistler and I actually use it considerably more than I thought I would.

[irul&ublo]

Dude, they haven't opened the Legs access point since the wet winter of 2011.

If there's not enough snow to hike to it, what good would tram access be?

[TahoeJ]

So running it on a storm day would be like opening oly lady.

What is this Oly Lady you speak of? I've heard rumors but it never seems to spin...

[Shred Baron]

What is this Oly Lady you speak of? I've heard rumors but it never seems to spin...

You know that lift that looks like broken arrow, both Yan, double chairs, never run. Kinda like C2 used to be.

[old goat]

Over in the tahoe thread the prevailing theory is that it's a marketing stunt to drive pass sales for next year.

It sort of feels like it is a pipe dream. 3 years ago KSL also said they would be upgrading red dog and granite chairs and haven't done so; why would it be different for a project many times the size and budget?

I was talking to a lift maintenance guy today. He said that Sibo was being replaced this summer--6 person detachable, same uphill capacity as currently. Granite will never happen--the bottom is wetland and can't be built on under current regulations. Red Dog is waiting for final plans and permits for the village--I guess so they know where to put the bottom. And he guesses 4-5 years on the gondola. Whether any of that is true I have no idea.

[Shred Baron]

I was talking to a lift maintenance guy today. He said that Sibo was being replaced this summer--6 person detachable, same uphill capacity as currently. Granite will never happen--the bottom is wetland and can't be built on under current regulations. Red Dog is waiting for final plans and permits for the village--I guess so they know where to put the bottom. And he guesses 4-5 years on the gondola. Whether any of that is true I have no idea.

Spot on, I work for the company that is building lifts at squaw these days. Although I haven't heard any time line for the gondi, but I have been hearing about if for a few years already.

[TahoeJ]

Wrote an opinion piece on this: http://www.powfix.com/2015/04/breaki...adows-gondola/

Glad to hear Sibo may actually get replaced. I will believe it when I see it. Is it true that modern 6 seater detachables can handle the wind a little better? So even if the uphill capacity was the same it may be able to run more often?

[old goat]

Wrote an opinion piece on this: http://www.powfix.com/2015/04/breaki...adows-gondola/

Glad to hear Sibo may actually get replaced. I will believe it when I see it. Is it true that modern 6 seater detachables can handle the wind a little better? So even if the uphill capacity was the same it may be able to run more often?

The new lift is permitted for 2400/hr. The current lift handles 3000/hr x broke down at least 1/2 time= true capacity 0-1500/hr

Another thing the lift guy mentioned to me--the FS will not allow lift towers that are visible from the Wilderness, which seems like a problem since the alignment shown on the map runs along the Wilderness boundary.

[TahoeJ]

Another thing the lift guy mentioned to me--the FS will not allow lift towers that are visible from the Wilderness, which seems like a problem since the alignment shown on the map runs along the Wilderness boundary.

I'm wondering if that can be solved by simply planting some trees to obstruct the view of the mid-stations and towers? Also, isn't the top of Emigrant visible from the wilderness?

[LightRanger]

Wrote an opinion piece on this: http://www.powfix.com/2015/04/breaki...adows-gondola/

Nice piece. Though I don't think we're going to see a village at the base of Alpine. I suppose it may technically be possible, but highly unlikely.

Also, isn't the top of Emigrant visible from the wilderness?

Emigrant went in before Granite Chief Wilderness was designated in 1984. See: https://books.google.com/books?id=UC...0chair&f=false

[TahoeJ]

Nice piece. Though I don't think we're going to see a village at the base of Alpine. I suppose it may technically be possible, but highly unlikely.

Me either... but I wouldn't put it past them in the long run. On the other hand, I'd be shocked if more development didn't happen around the base, just maybe not a whole village. On that note, that project for a bunch of condos to the right of Chalet road sounds like it might actually happen, and there will be increased demand for food and other amenities nearby. I spent a season in one of those condos at the end of Chalet and it did kind of suck to always have to drive all the way down the road for everything. I don't think a few more beds right by the resort is necessarily a bad thing, within reason, but once things get started you never know where they'll end.

The access road is still a major problem though, even if the gondola is another point of entry / exit.

[meter-man]

Nice piece TahoeJ. To me, ALL the other purported benefits are secondary to the marketing hype generated by the connection. Which is, of course, intimately tied to driving buzz and pushing the new village development. If they wanted to achieve any of the other purported benefits - reducing lift lines on lower mountain, more lower mtn lifts during windy conditions, ease of connection b/n resorts - they could do so much more cheaply and effectively using existing and upgrading infrastructure and ops. You explained it way better than me. EDIT: okay, ease of connection might be a bit better - certainly more enjoyable.

You hint on one benefit that many #freealpine loyalists (myself included) might like - "Lift access to some of the best hike-to terrain at Alpine Meadows sucks! As someone who loves to hike and traverse for lines at Alpine, I don’t think having a station providing easy access to The Buttress and Bernie’s Bowl is that big of a deal. There would still be tons of hike-only terrain and being able to access Beaver and Estelle from either side could have its advantages in certain conditions. Typically patrol won’t even let you get all the way over there from Summit unless there are proper routes out of Beaver and Estelle for them to pull a sled." Those areas are closed way too often, especially the last few years, and this could lead KSL to investing more patrol resources to get these areas open.

[Shred Baron]

Wrote an opinion piece on this: http://www.powfix.com/2015/04/breaki...adows-gondola/

Glad to hear Sibo may actually get replaced. I will believe it when I see it. Is it true that modern 6 seater detachables can handle the wind a little better? So even if the uphill capacity was the same it may be able to run more often?

The main difference between a quad and six pass is the weight of the chair. Six pack chairs are heavier so they swing less. If they aren't increasing capacity, thy could be trying to help with wind hold days, or it could just be that six packs are better for marketing than quads.

[LightRanger]

The main difference between a quad and six pass is the weight of the chair. Six pack chairs are heavier so they swing less. If they aren't increasing capacity, thy could be trying to help with wind hold days, or it could just be that six packs are better for marketing than quads.

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2014/1...irlift-in-2015

The major advantage of replacing the nearly 30 year old lift would be that the new lift would be built with a wider gauge and heavier chairs, which would allow the chair to run during high wind events. Siberia is currently subject of frequent wind holds due to its location at the summit of the mountain. The chair has also had a number of incidents over the past few years indicating its time for an upgrade.

The wider gauge part makes sense too harder to derail a bigger cable, therefore operational parameters are better.