The TREWth about Product Development/The Birth of our Base Layers

[::: :::]

Good thoughts here. Our primary thought about using the loops instead of the thumb hole in the face fabric is that the loop attachments are lower profile and less noticeable than an actual thumb hole in the fabric. But I can see this going both ways and that a sleek design eliminates this.

I'm suspicious of the thin loop. How does it feel after a couple hours?

[Gray Lab]

Our "chill pant" is a heavier weight NuYarn layer. It can be used as a mid-layer on cold days instead of fleece pants, for example. It'll be styled in a casual way that also gives the user the ability to wear this piece as outer layer like a pair of sweatpants. This category of pant is popular in the broader outdoor/athletic market and we think this is a unique piece that will resonate with mountain shredders!

Probably just a subjective thing, but to me these look tough to wear as street wear/lounge wear. Sweat pants I know aren't skin tight below the knee and don't have elastic cuffs like long underwear. They are cut more like pants with wider pant leg like openings. I think you're trying to create a hybrid piece that works as sweat pants and as a heavyweight baselayer and probably doesn't do either particularly well. I think dudes are going to want to wear regular sweats over these as street wear or lounge wear (regular cut sweats made of NuYarn would be pretty sweet though). My guess is the girls are going to want to stick to their Lululemons so they have a fighting chance in the ass game. They didn't do all those squats and lunges at the gym for nothing. The ladies who would stomp around with these hammer pants tucked into their mukluk's instead of a wearing pair of lulu's are probably sporting more pit hair than my east coast sensibilities can get comfy with.

[XavierD]

Thumb holes are much less likely to rip out after a year of constant use.

7/8 length on pants is good - so long as it is a loose cut so it can be loosely 'slinkied' up.

Fit on base layer looks a little snug around the calf/knee/quad. Making it looser here could help with bigger folks wearing it.

I think the idea of having a higher level of insulation over the thigh and hamstring/butt with thinner-stretcher-more breathable material on the groin, inseam and outseam.

[zeroforhire]

Everyone is commenting that the r1 hoody is perfection. I disagree. The r1 is good. The mountain equipment eclipse hoody is better. Better zipper. Better fit. Better fleece. Most people probably don't have experience with it though.

[meter-man]

Everyone is commenting that the r1 hoody is perfection. I disagree. The r1 is good. The mountain equipment eclipse hoody is better. Better zipper. Better fit. Better fleece. Most people probably don't have experience with it though.

Never seen it - looks excellent.

[XavierD]

The r1 is good. The mountain equipment eclipse hoody is better.

agreed

[snuffleupagus]

Everyone is commenting that the r1 hoody is perfection. I disagree. The r1 is good. The mountain equipment eclipse hoody is better. Better zipper. Better fit. Better fleece. Most people probably don't have experience with it though.

yeah, that does look like a really nice piece. how is the length?

[North]

I'm suspicious of the thin loop. How does it feel after a couple hours?

Depends on the day for me. Have 'em on my Patagonia base layers. I do appreciate the low profile design, but sometimes it gets uncomfortable. If the loop is sitting flat against the skin, usually OK, if there's any twist, its immediately noticeable and uncomfortable. I've got pretty dry hands so YMMV.

[kootenayskier]

Thumb holes and loops only work within limited arm length parameters. As someone with a significant ape index, they never work for me, so I prefer loops as they're easily dispatched with.

[That was Pontus]

^ Word. Anything with thumb holes or loops tends to wear out on the wrist/palm side as well I find.

[roQer]

I'd love to have a midlayer which is thinner at the body and thicker at the arms. Wearing back protector underneath my shell I’ve always the problem that the arms are too cold or the body is too hot. Kind of hard to adjust the right isolation with conventional stuff. Back protector friendly midlayer would be the shit!

[flatlander#2]

When I worked for Alternative Apparel we were in LA for corp sales meetings, new line review. They bring out the actual "fit model" they use to size their men's large. I quickly realized the value of a good tailor. Everybody has a different ideal of fit and always fluid. I have a thermoball jacket I had altered this winter, have done the same with my base layers-all merino yo. I wear a 16.5x36.5 shirt and 34x33 pants, long ass sleeves, wide shoulders, not that fat in the middle. So to get arm length nailed I have to go big in the body-or buy tall, nobody makes tall. Manufacturers, especially small have to hit the middle and hope for the best, tricky business.

If you're rocking the back protector in everyday skiing get your spancer to cover the tailoring.

[Gray Lab]

^^^same problem here. Tall option is really nice when it's offered. Too bad it rarely is.

[SupreChicken]

Tripp, where are we with the onesie?

[schuss]

I hate thumbholes because my hands are weird and they cut into my thumb webbing

[snuffleupagus]

Really good stuff here on the thumbholes/thumbloops. We can certainly see all sides. I think the photo I posted made the small elastic loops look uncomfortable. They were quite stretched in that photo and I can see how some might view that as uncomfortable. Our approach is this: some people like thumb loops and some people don't. The small elastic loops is the best of both worlds because they are there to be used and are the most low-profile option. If you don't use thumb loops, like me, the small elastic band doesn't get in the way and it's no problem that it's there. As we get more protos and pre-production samples in house, i'll post some more photos.

[snuffleupagus]

Tripp, where are we with the onesie?

GREAT question!! Unfortunately, I think the market for the onesie is the size of a raison and it's being fulfilled by a few other competitors. BUT we'll keep this on our radar. Tell me more about what you think would make the perfect onesie.

[snuffleupagus]

Also, I want to circle back on the mid-layer pocket. Right now, our true mid-layer piece (we're calling it our Chill MidLayer) has a left chest pocket. Our 1/4 zip lightweight does not have a chest pocket. I consider the 1/4 zip a base layer, but did have a conversation with someone who often uses the 1/4 zip lightweight as their mid-layer. How do folks use the 1/4 zip lightweight? Is it next to skin?

And lastly, while I realize it's hard to tell based on the photos I posted, would you wear our sweater as a mid-layer?

[auvgeek]

Also, I want to circle back on the mid-layer pocket. Right now, our true mid-layer piece (we're calling it our Chill MidLayer) has a left chest pocket. Our 1/4 zip lightweight does not have a chest pocket. I consider the 1/4 zip a base layer, but did have a conversation with someone who often uses the 1/4 zip lightweight as their mid-layer. How do folks use the 1/4 zip lightweight? Is it next to skin?

For skinning in the PNW, I don't really wear a mid-layer. Either a semi-permeable VB (thanks Big Steve) or occasionally a long-sleeve 150 weight merino 1/4 zip. Both next to skin. A chest pocket on the merino layer would be nice, but I can live without it. But really, a 150 weight, long 1/4 zip for venting, and a hood that fits under a helmet would be perfect.

[Gray Lab]

I would keep the chest pockets just as you have them: yes on the chill, no on the 1/4 zip lightweight. To me the chest pocket is for something small that you need to access quickly/frequently. Today that pretty much means cell phone. I keep my wallet in my bibs not my chest pocket because if I need it at all at the resort, it's usually just at the end of the day. I guess a map or GPS unit could be kept there, but I don't keep those in chest pockets either (on the rare occasions I have them at all). I prefer to keep my cell phone in my outer layer for access, but a pocket is needed on the midlayer when 1) it's too cold for the phone in the outerlayer or 2) the midlayer is being worn as streetwear. For this reason, keep it in the chill midlayer. To answer your question, I would wear (and have worn) 280g-ish merino as a midlayer. For this reason, I would like too see a chest pocket on that too. I would not put a chest pocket on the baselayer. I think it would be too light to hold a phone comfortably without bouncing around or tugging the pocket down from the weight of the phone.

[Biggum]

Also, we're calling it our Chill MidLayer

Is that reverse phsycology the "Chill" BRrrrrrrrr Cold right? or a type and it is teh Chili midlayer? Mmmm warm no bean chili

[grskier]

Also, I want to circle back on the mid-layer pocket. Right now, our true mid-layer piece (we're calling it our Chill MidLayer) has a left chest pocket. Our 1/4 zip lightweight does not have a chest pocket. I consider the 1/4 zip a base layer, but did have a conversation with someone who often uses the 1/4 zip lightweight as their mid-layer. How do folks use the 1/4 zip lightweight? Is it next to skin?

And lastly, while I realize it's hard to tell based on the photos I posted, would you wear our sweater as a mid-layer?

On cold days I'll merino t shirt, 1/4 zip mid, and shell it.... but I don't usually need the extra pocket if I'm rocking it as a middy.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Another vote for long arms.
I like these, but the arms aren't really long enough. Especially after being washed/dried a bunch. I'm 6' and kinda a bigger guy. The large fits well other than the sleeves. They are close to skin, but not too close. They tuck in well, although OR Igneo pants come up a little short, and they function well for riding bikes in the Spring and Fall.
Paired up with midweight bottoms and lightly insulated ski pants, I don't need much else to stay warm other than fleece and shell. Good stuff.
I find anything with thumbholes to be more annoying than useful.

[Gray Lab]

Thumb holes and loops only work within limited arm length parameters. As someone with a significant ape index, they never work for me, so I prefer loops as they're easily dispatched with.

There's really no rational explanation for why I'm still thinking about thumb loops, but Kootenayskier makes a good point. If arm length is too short, they pull on the webbing between thumb and forefinger. If the arm length is too long, they aren't really needed, but should bother anyone. But if the arm length is within the parameters, I think they are useful. The Icebreaker I referenced above for having a good neck to use as a model uses thumb holes instead of thumb loops, and this works really well. Sort of just a little hole in the side of a nice long sleeve.



I'd like to see something like this from Trew in NuYarn but with longer sleeves and lighter weights.

[snuffleupagus]

Hey Folks, I've finally published a blog diving into our touring line. Check it out here: http://www.trewgear.com/blog/?p=1894



I'd love to get your feedback and discuss!

-Tripp