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03-27-2015, 02:38 PM #1Registered User
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School me: CX vs 'gravel' vs roadie disc
The least favourite thing I can think of is riding a bike when I could ski, so I won't be racing CX on this (that and my balls aren't big enough and I don't want to suffer that badly).......but I do want something that I can seriously fuck around on and take it without exploding. Expert at handling a bike, fitness and flexibility is moderate, 200lbs (and not likely moving down anytime soon).
Most of it will be road because anything mountain will be on a mountain bike, but I definitely need something that can handle gravel/logging road/occasional smooth firm singletrack. Tires will probably stay at 28-30, and discs preferred because I hate rim brakes. Technology is making things possible that 5 yrs ago people would have laughed at you for thinking of.
Is a CX overkill for a bike seeing mostly road duties despite the heavy bastard I am riding it?
Should I just buy a Norco Search fitted with a 'gravel bike' marketing moniker and stop bothering you with my indecision?
Should I get a Giant Defy and then buy another bike, because face it, more gear is more awesomer.
I imagine lots of the lovely people on here have similar interests, so I'd be interested in hearing what your thought process was and what decision you took
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03-27-2015, 03:24 PM #2yelgatgab
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Buddy loves his Salsa Fargo for road and gravel rides to mellow singletrack. May be overkill for mostly road. Have another friend that traded his road bike for a CX bike for gravel roads. He says he prefers it on the road to the road bike.
Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.
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03-27-2015, 03:42 PM #3
Norco Search or GT Grade
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03-27-2015, 03:51 PM #4Registered User
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I like the versatility of my CX being able to hit fire roads and gravel as necessary. Geometry is probably a little harsher for long rides than some of the more relaxed roadies like Roubaixs but trade iff works for me.
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03-27-2015, 04:57 PM #5
Was riding with a guy on a giant defy disc last weekend and noticed there wasn't a ton of tire clearance. You can put skinny road tires on a gravel/cx bike, but a treaded cx tire won't fit on a road bike.
I have a straight up cx race bike and it's a little less convenient for general riding. The brakes kind of suck, there's only one bottle cage mount, and obviously no provisions for fenders or racks or whatever. Plus the 46/36 chainrings give me a narrower gearing range than my road bike. It's still great for riding around, especially on the dirt and rougher roads around here. I have a 28mm rear slick and a 33 semi slick up front right now which is a nice mix of comfort, speed, and flat protection.
I'd look for something with a compact double instead of cross rings, mounts for two bottles and maybe fenders, room for tires, and then after that it doesn't really matter. Salsa warbird and santa cruz stigmata are pretty sweet looking bikes. Or just get a kona jake the snake.
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/warbird
http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/stigmata
http://www.konaworld.com/jake_the_snake.cfmLast edited by jamal; 03-27-2015 at 05:10 PM.
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03-27-2015, 06:42 PM #6Registered User
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I used to ride a surly cross check everywhere. Commuting, 100 mile road rides, Vancouver b.c. to San Fran one fall, local singletrack trails. Then I bought an actual mountain bike and realized why mountain bikes were invented. No disc tabs but you can rock full fenders and front and rear racks if you ever wanted to go for a tour.
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03-27-2015, 08:02 PM #7
I've got an older Jake (pre disc) that I use for the everyday ride. Commuting, hooliganism, touring. Ripped some Whitefish single track with full panniers and skinny ass 28 rubber bands last summer. Now it's got some fat 40s for cush. Frame can run the whole show, bottle cages, fenders, racks, etc... If I were to go new, it'd be a Jake the Snake with the carbon fork though.
Life is simple. Go Explore.
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03-27-2015, 08:36 PM #8
I think what is going on is that roadies are discovering that the only *real* way to have fun on a bicycle is to use a mountain bike. They resist this temptation, however- and only move incrementally toward it.
Rock Shox Ruby? Shunned. Too much too fast!
So it looks like this:
1. Road bike
2. Road disc
3. Gravel
4. Cyclocross
5. Dirt Touring
6. Monstercross
[expect this realm to grow]
7. 29er
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03-27-2015, 08:54 PM #9Registered User
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I'd want the ability to run fenders on any bike I'm using for these kinds of things. Good fenders are pretty easy to take on and off once set up (Bontrager makes some sweet ones. SKS are a pain in the ass), so they don't have to be a permanent feature, just something you can use seasonally or when necessary. Once I started using fenders, I found myself riding on a lot of days I would have otherwise skipped, and using my 'cross/gravel bike for a lot more purposes. Just a thought.
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03-27-2015, 09:16 PM #10
why not a disc trucker?
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03-27-2015, 09:50 PM #11
Those have straight gauge tubing and are stiff and heavy compared to a cross check or jake the snake. And don't have as nice of parts.
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03-28-2015, 04:24 AM #12
X2 on the cross check. I put flat bars on mine with thumb shifters and Bruce Gordon rock n road tires. It's a great set up for what you are describing.
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03-28-2015, 05:53 AM #13Registered User
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If you want max fun for what it sounds like you are going to do I'd say go CX. Slacker geometry will give a more stable ride in the loose gravel and singletrack. A "gravel road" category could work as well but will skew more towards long miles in the saddle with the added asset of stability.
The main question is:
-do you want to ride ST/paths and once and awhile pound out the miles
or
-do you plan to put in some miles and want the stability/forgiveness when you go off the beaten path?
Disc brakes are your friend. Make that a requirement.
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03-28-2015, 07:14 AM #14Registered User
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03-28-2015, 07:58 AM #15
Another vote here for not going with a touring bike for this choice -
I have a Kona Sutra touring bike, disc brakes, steel frame and fork. I really like this bike as a tourer, and it can fit wider tires (up to 700x38, with fenders) . But it's very stiff and heavy, to be able to handle heavy loads. I've ridden it a tiny bit on dirt, and it beats you up.
I used to have a Kelly Knobby cross bike, steel frame and fork, and it rode much better on anything rough, and was fun on pavement too. It had the springy feel that you want from a steel bike. Sold it because I didn't use it on dirt much, was a little too large for me, and I liked my real road bike more on pavement (duh).
Have you checked out the titanium disc cross bikes that Bikesdirect.com has? They're like $1400, complete.
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03-28-2015, 08:21 AM #16
Many "true" cyclocross bikes still have a high bottom bracket and a pretty agressive body position so that they can be quick and twitchy for CX racing. Many of the "gravel" bikes take the CX tire clearances, but use a more road geometry to kick up the stability, but don't go as long in the wheelbase as a touring rig does.
That GT grade looks nice, I like the allowance for bigger tires that the Diamondback Haanjo or Salsa Warbird have, and they ride like road bikes when on the road.
That said the Crosscheck is super versitile, or the Straggler if you like a disc option. I never got into the Crosscheck, from a geometry stance, without messing with the stem to get the handlebars more level with the seat.
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03-28-2015, 09:33 AM #17Registered User
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GT Grade sounds right up your alley.
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03-28-2015, 04:30 PM #18
I don't know much about it, but the Specialized Diverge sounds like it might fit your requirements. Here's a review.
I have a Jake the Snake, but mostly use it as a commuter bike. It all depends on what you want to optimize for. I'm more of a roadie at heart, so for a longer road ride that has some gravel sections, I use my road bike and treat the skinny-tired off-roading as a challenge.
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03-29-2015, 08:32 AM #19
What's the max tire size that will fit on a Roubaix? A bike like that with sturdy 28 mm tires will handle any dirt and gravel roads you throw at it. I ride my Rambouillet all over central WA on dirt and gravel FS roads and mellow single track. A bike that has a geometry for long stage rides with clearance for 28-32 mm tires is the best for this type of riding. A mountain bike or cyclocross bike would be less than optimal. Mtbs are too slow and Cx bikes aren't comfortable for the long haul.
That Diverge looks really nice. Most folks don't how nice it is to ride a road bike with 28-32 mm rubber, even for pavement it's so cushy and secure. My Rivendell Atlantis is another example that fits this class, my only offroad bike for over ten years, but a bit heavier and I wish it had discs.
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03-30-2015, 07:26 AM #20
I'd go with a roubaix disc, with 28mm tires. I'm currently on a pure road racing bike with 25mm slicks, and non-paved stuff is even fine on that bike (as long as it's not loose gravel).
Advantage to that is, when things get spicy on the roubaix, it'll only help your bike handling skills
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03-30-2015, 07:49 AM #21Banned
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"gravel" = better geometry all around, slacker than road or CX at HA, lower BB than CX.
high BB on CX is doofus incarnate. % of CXers who bunny hop - 3%. most get off and carry, at which point BB height irrelevant.
you can race CX on your "gravel" bike but the leg-shaving Stravassholes and rice-dicked Egos on Wheels might chide you for not having the latest 16 lbs race rocket even if you are bottom of pack material.
the IRO Rob Roy I got via group buy here in 2007 or so, it's got excellent geometry and a fantastic ride of the sort that make people spout cliche BS like "steel is real." only cost something like $100 for the frame. yeah, it's limited to SS. yeah, it's canti-posts and not disc mount. funny thing, it rides trails great, and I ride with my friends on lighter fancier CX bikes and don't have any issues being held up by the bike.
on the new bike front, Norco has a pretty slick looking gravel/all-road/latest-hype-name thing that I'd consider if I wanted to spend between $1k and 2k.
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03-30-2015, 08:59 AM #22
High BB on cc bike isn't for bunny hopping, it's for not driving your pedals into the ground on slippery corners.
That said, I would def go w a "gravel" bike. Been riding road bikes on gravel roads and single track for a long time, not critical bikes but more road/stage bikes.
Add tire clearance and a touch of wheelbase and you'll love it.
Killing it with the 3-5 year old crowd!I rip the groomed on tele gear
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03-30-2015, 11:53 AM #23
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03-30-2015, 11:55 AM #24
This whole "you need a gravel bike not a cx bike" thing needs to stop. Here's the geometry comparison between a Jake the Snake and Norco search in 56/55.5.
Code:Kona Norco ETT length 565 560 HT angle 71.5 72.25 wheelbase 1029 1019 BB drop 62 70
Which one is the cross bike and which one is the gravel bike?
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03-31-2015, 04:01 PM #25
Yeah this ^^. Legit cross race courses usually have lots of tight 180-degree-ish turns that can be off camber that you really need to pedal through as much as possible to keep the speed up while not pedal striking the ground. Higher BB's on CX race bikes help with that. They're not designed with high BB's just for the sake of making it easier to jump a barrier (which is debatable I guess if it even makes it any easier at all).
For gravel-ish style bikes with all the tire clearances you could want, but with a bit slacker HA's, lower BB, slightly longer more stretched out than a true CX race bike also check out the new Salsa Warbirds or the Niner RLT'sWaste your time, read my crap, at:
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