Sea to Sky AM rig - Patrol or Rune or...?

[roadgap]

Background: bought an XC bike last year ('11 Rocky Element carbon, 120 travel) "just to see" if I liked MTB coming out of about 5 years of pretty intense road/crit racing. Just wanted to mix things up. Then realized, well shit, I live in North Van and this place is just as rad as everyone says it is.

Currently beating the shit out of said XC bike, progressing fast, but it's very obvious I need something a little bigger to really have the most fun in my neck of the woods. Skills wise still definitely in the 'beater' category but have been down a lot of stuff recently where I definitely felt the bike was holding me back (7th, Ned's).

Suffering from the usual analysis paralysis on what I actually need for my next bike. Local shop has the new Transition Patrol and Banshee Rune for exactly the same sticker price. Was looking at the Spitfire originally but it sounds like due to supply issues from Taiwan, finding one is going to be tough. Shop guy seemed to think 160 front and back would be a good call given where I'm at.

Basically, the idea would be to get something I can ride on Fromme/Seymour during the week, do 4hr Squamish rides on during the weekend, and 5-10 park days at Whistler during the summer as well.

Is a new style 160 squish AM bike the ticket here? Not worried about climbing, I still put in enough hours on the roadie, fitness is the least of my problems.

[D(C)]

160 is a pretty safe choice for what you're describing. You're going to give up some responsiveness compared to your Element in exchange for confidence. But that's the type of bike you see most around here.

Both bikes look great. Try to demo if you can. I think North Shore Bike Shop has a demo Patrol. I'm not sure who has a Rune. The main difference I see is the fit/geometry, where the Patrol has a longer front end than the Rune. It comes down to preference.

[Phall]

I really liked the new Rocky Instinct BC edition, that was a fun big 29er. I owned a spitfire from banshee and really liked it. I bet the transition would be a crusher too.

[kevin267]

There isn't a new 160mm bike I would steer clear of, I think it comes down to fit and best deal. Although spring isn't the best time for bargains.

[roadgap]

Found a carbon Devinci Spartan for over $1000 cheaper than the rune/patrol.. any opinions on this one?

[FlimFlamvanHam]

just as kevin267 said, there is not a crappy 160mm bike made these days. They will all be very similar. The reach and head tube angle are going to be the biggest differnces.

The only shitty thing about the spartan is they come stock with the dual position Pike (they call it "dual air" but no such thing for Pike: it's the dual position). And i do not care what anyone says, the dual position is not same as solo air. The former costs more but the latter performs (much) better. And to me, that is a deal breaker. But $1000 is a lot of money and maybe the dealer would swap the fork out for you for a solo air? the dealer will also know the dual positions are a harder sell.

The Spartan is burly and it also has the high and low setting so you do have the option of adjusting the geo a bit should you feel the need.

so many different bikes to choose from; it really does all come down to price. You dealing with dunbar on that spartan?

You check at Cove to see if any leftover Process 153's they need to move? sorry, just trying to think of shops that may have a new '14 still in stock.

[roadgap]

The Spartan's at Steed, they're the closest mtb shop to my house, and I've had good dealings with them so far so that's a big plus.

Good to know about the fork, I may ask them about that.

[grinch]

I have a rune and Really like the versatility . Angle/bb adjust and I can run 650b in the 26 dropouts to keep chain stay short for my short legs. Pedals well. Destroys downs . Can be 30lbs +-1lb. Short test on the spartan was impressive. Pedals pretty good. Plows or pops on the downs. Very fun. Not as much angle adjust and can't be made as slack. $1000 kind makes the decision pretty EZ though. Great bike and lifetime warrantee . Not super light for carbon but I think devinci don't do super light just sensible light for durability

[shirk]

$1000 savings on the Spartan puts it at the top of the list in my opinion.

[roadgap]

The $1000 doesn't just come from nowhere, the component spec is definitely less sexy than on the Rune which has pretty top end SRAM bits as opposed to Shimano Deore brakes, deraillaurs and crank/cassette. But I like that Devinci didn't compromise on frame, suspension or dropper. I generally work on my own bikes and would rather have a good 'platform' that deserves those smaller upgrades in the future, rather than something that requires big upgrades to be decent.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Roadgap, what Spartan model is it?

What's the Rune build?

So it's a $1k difference in price. I incorrectly assumed Steed was discounting a leftover.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

IMHO, 160 is a lot of travel to carry around outside of Whistler. On my trip to the area last fall was on a 150 mm Rocky Mtn Altitude and that was fine for everything that wasn't the bike park. I went from a 160 bike to a 150 here in Jackson, but all our trails are smooth whereas your guys' are waaaay more interesting and fun .

Buddy there has a Spartan he speaks very highly of, though.

[roadgap]

Roadgap, what Spartan model is it?

What's the Rune build?

So it's a $1k difference in price. I incorrectly assumed Steed was discounting a leftover.

Spartan Carbon XP. Same frame/suspension/post as their top end model, just different shifting/brakes.

Rune is SRAM X1 with Guide brakes.

Wheelsets on both are a bit underwhelming. But will likely build up a set of chinese carbon rims around some nice hubs ASAP.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

i have cheap chinese carbon rims to DT350's and would recommend them to anyone.

All bike pricing is so similar relative to spec between brands. The Deore on the Spartan does mean a cassette upgrade if you want to try and run single ring with a wide range cog (since Doere cluster is riveted).

And Deore is excellent stuff. The brakes are same as XT and SLX (yes I know the little differences but they perform identically when it comes to stopping power).

No dropper on the Rune. The dealer would surely work something out for you.

You're getting a carbon frame with lesser spec vs aluminum with higher spec. Any aluminum X1 bike with a dropper and a Pike should be in the $5 - $5.5 range in Canada.

Personally, I could not buy a complete bike again unless on mega-sale. I have done it and just end up changing everything.

I'd be screwed if choosing between those two. I'd say take the spartan for the frame and I'd change the cogset to an XT and get a 42t on and run a 30t narrow/wide ring BUT that pike....why do they spec the dual positions? Even the higher end Reigns come stock with the dual positions. they mean well, but their target market wants the solo airs.

Also, as much as I love Kim, there are other bikes out there and many shops still very close to you. It's not like you have to jump on one of these as it's all 2015 MSRP pricing so take your time.

As an aside the Spartan and Banshee are a bit conservative in their geo relative to the trend towards longer front ends and short stems like the Transition Patrol or Kona Process or new Giant Reign.

[roadgap]

Would there be a big advantage to going to a more 'modern' geo for mainly North Shore riding?

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Really, no. A small advantage: yes. I think it all comes down to the rider.

And it's all trade offs. With a more 'traditional' front center it's a shorter bike, and around here that can be appreciated. I'm splitting hairs here, really. We are talking like 20mm's of wheelbase in most cases.

[roadgap]

Yeah, I like the idea of the shorter bike just since I'm coming from a relatively small 26'er - probably too small for me in reality but I've been making do.

[D(C)]

All bike pricing is so similar relative to spec between brands.

Except for Giant. Their pricing in Canada blows everyone out of the water. The Trance SX looks like a great do it all bike, and the value is amazing. The wheels are the only real weak point of the spec.

[grinch]

Spartan felt a bit shorter on the tt than my rune. generally I'd fit long torso-long tt. short leg- short cs. with short leg add in stand over as a factor. I sized up on rune and would size up on Spartan(I'm in between sizes). up size allows for shorter stem. shorter stem helps mitigate wheel flop on these slacker bikes(I was pedaling xc laps having a blast in 65 degree angle setting, just tooo many pedal strikes). I bought a 30mm syntace stem. very light, never loosens and shortest made for clamp on stem. great product. renthal and someone else has a low 30's mm stem now

[jamesp]

Except for Giant. Their pricing in Canada blows everyone out of the water. The Trance SX looks like a great do it all bike, and the value is amazing. The wheels are the only real weak point of the spec.

yes except, if it matters, I think the SX is alu now & not longer available in carbon? Chinese carbons wheels are an easy upgrade, Trance's value for money is hard to ignore.

[juanbendedknee]

After riding on Seymour (Neds, etc. ) I would definitely go 160. That mountain has a lot of rock on it, even compared to Fromme! Most importantly, pick a bike that fits you well!

Modern geo is here to stay. The difference doesn't just come down to wheelbase, like Johnny Sizzler suggested. Lots of bikes have shorter chain-stays, steeper seat-tubes and a longer front center- partly due to 1x drive-trains being so popular. The fact is, there is a big difference that can be felt while riding.

Lastly, after having ridden a bunch of bikes in similar price ranges, consider weight. I rode a alu Spicy and it was 36lbs. My Process was ~30 stock!

[roadgap]

Trance SX looks worth checking out. amazing spec for that price.

[kootenayskier]

The benefit of such a trend driven, constantly changing market is that there are always any number of barely used high end bikes available for cheap. Look through the buy and sell on Pinkbike and get some bike geek's vanity project for a fraction of what they spent.

[LHutz Esq]

Went looking for a trance advance 1 up here - sold out in the medium. Those prices were hard to beat. The bike I was really after - rocky thunderbolt BC- also sold out. I suppose I could shop the internets to find one but I really like to support the lbs. I don't know if this will be an issue with the 160 bikes.

[Conundrum]

In full disclosure, I bought a Spartan a few months ago. I really like it. But I think with the new crop of bikes, I probably would have liked a lot of the new stuff out. I'm one of those guys who still gets nervous riding a carbon bike...I know I shouldn't but I do. I'm 6' tall and generally lean towards medium bikes as a personal preference and sized up to a large Spartan. It was a good move. The geo conversation is completely personal though.

You might look at just a frame and see what the shop can do for you on a build. I've always bought frames and then built them up myself. I have a really great LBS with a really great mechanic (one of the best in the state regardless of who you ask) so for the first time in my life, I had a shop build up a frame for me. I spec'd it out and it actually came in lower than anywhere I could find online. The moral of my story is find the geo and parts you like and go talk to the shop. My GF bought a carbon Troy last year and they had almost an entire XT parts kit of another bike that a customer changed things out on and she came in a $4,200 for a carbon Troy, I9 wheels, solo air, and full XT because they had those leftover parts.