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Thread: NFL 2015/16

  1. #551
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    Yo, AA, the discussion about the crime is beating a dead horse. We're now talking about the cover up.

  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    That makes zero sense, and these are very sophisticated parties.
    This part I don't agree with. I mean, have you been paying attention to the NFL / league office the last few years? They're about as sophisticated as a monkey fucking a football. How could you watch how the whole Ray Rice deal went down and call them sophisticated?

    Look, I think Brady probably cheated (and it's not a big deal, either)... I also think Goodell and the league office sidekicks are a bunch of shit-heads who were on a witch hunt. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

    The Rodgers talk is nonsense - he was very clearly talking about over-inflating them before inspection.

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Yo, AA, the discussion about the crime is beating a dead horse. We're now talking about the cover up.
    I know, that's why I mentioned San Diego's dealio. I think they were fined what, $25K?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    This part I don't agree with. I mean, have you been paying attention to the NFL / league office the last few years? They're about as sophisticated as a monkey fucking a football. How could you watch how the whole Ray Rice deal went down and call them sophisticated?

    Look, I think Brady probably cheated (and it's not a big deal, either)... I also think Goodell and the league office sidekicks are a bunch of shit-heads who were on a witch hunt. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

    The Rodgers talk is nonsense - he was very clearly talking about over-inflating them before inspection.
    Agreed...I think it's all nonsense...and I get bored so I like to beat a dead horse.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Yo, AA, the discussion about the crime is beating a dead horse. We're now talking about the cover up.
    Where exactly was there a coverup?

    Not providing cell phone records does not equal a coverup. As a lawyer you should know that.
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  6. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Yeah, I read that in the report. Pats atty's "negotiation" request to provide topics in advance and request to "consider" written interrogatories made my chuckle, reminded me of a few sleazeball woodshedders with whom I've dealt. For those non-bar members: Attorneys providing answers to witnesses and rehearsing them is called "woodshedding."

    Good chance Wells and members of investigative team will be called as witnesses on the failure to cooperate charges.

    Once again, it aint the crime. It's the coverup.

    Gotta wonder if anybody might approach The Deflator and the other pawn to spill the beans for $$$ and what kind of pressure and/or offers of under the table $$$$$ TB and Kessler might put on them to keep their mouths zippered.
    If I'm the Deflator and Additional Pawn, I try to jack up the price for talking and then talk. No loyalty from Brady or the Pats; they're not friends. They don't have jobs. Also, they'd have to move out of New England area in any case. They would find lots of accommodating places to live in, say, Miami, Buffalo, or Queens/Long Island/Jersey...

  7. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Where exactly was there a coverup?

    Not providing cell phone records does not equal a coverup. As a lawyer you should know that.
    coverup is not a term of art nor is it a legal term of any sort. There is nothing about Steve's training that provides him extra knowledge on the definition of the term.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  8. #558
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    Apparently the Wells report "didn't recieve" all the texts from the post Jets game conversatiin. This is supposedly due to the recovery method used by Wells. CSNNE published the following

    09:05:45 EDT
    McNally: Tom sucks… I’m going make that next ball a f*ckin balloon.

    09:06:11 EDT
    Jastremski: LOL. Hey so when are you going to have that camera set up for Bears practice?

    09:06:25 EDT
    McNally: Aw hell. Now Belichick is whining, too?

    09:06:35 EDT
    Jastremski: Sorrrry : )

    09:06:57 EDT
    McNally: Well you tell that goon that I used the rest of the tape on the Jets last week. Gotta few more extra rolls, but I need to delete some old footage first.

    09:07:08 EDT
    Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done.

    09:07:18 EDT
    McNally: And I’m guessing you said it was my fault?

    09:07:37 EDT
    Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though...

    09:07:55 EDT
    McNally: OK, Fine. So now what’s Tom bitching about?

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post

    Not writing down the PSI measurements beforehand was simply incompetence, which is right in line with everything else Roger Goodell has been a part of.
    Yeah, if you don't do it you can't write it down. Heating balls on the side line as I pointed out a few pages back is the same thing the only difference is the league decided to handle that tampering by telling the teams doing it to knock it off, opposed to trying to catch it being done and not saying anything.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
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  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post

    Not providing cell phone records does not equal a coverup.
    What I don't get is what cell phone records are they looking for? They have the cell phones from everyone else why did they need TB as well? If person A sends a text to person B, you don't need both the phones to get the conversion. Its a red herring.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
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  11. #561
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    Discovery of SMS and GMS text is tricky because on many (most?) phones they can be deleted without a trace. Been there.

    When TB, et. al. learned about the potential of an investigation they had an obligation under NFL rules (and, possibly, law) to preserve evidence, including text messages. If a text message between TB and one of the pawns appeared on the latter's phone but was not on TB's phone, that would be damning evidence of exspoliation of evidence, which would be a breach of the rules (and possibly a violation of law).

    So, no, definitely not a red herring. And this is viewed in the context of the Pats' attorney's refusal to allow access to a witness after discovery of the texts, etc. Failing to cooperate with or thwarting a league investigation is risky shit not only because it's a violation of the rules, but also because it begs the question "what is he trying to hide?"

  12. #562
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    There is no way its in the rules that all personal communications with their private property made by a player are subject to search and seizure by the NFL. Please.

    Your whole argument is based on "it begs the question". I think even you would admit its a weak argument.
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  13. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Failing to cooperate with or thwarting a league investigation is risky shit (just ask Barry Bonds)
    Funny you mention that. Bonds is about to file suit against MLB for collusion (which very obviously happened) and word is he has a pretty solid case - I bet they settle with him just to avoid the airing of dirty laundry.

    Also, are you sure about those rules or are you just guessing?

  14. #564
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    Pats fans can't handle articles like this

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...low%3Afacebook

  15. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    There is no way its in the rules that all personal communications with their private property made by a player are subject to search and seizure by the NFL.
    Didn't say that it was. You might be confusing search and seizure (a constitutional limitation on government action) with the NFL's right to discovery (a contractual right). The NFL player contract requires that the player comply with the NFL rules, which, among other things, requires that the player cooperate with the investigation, to provide discovery and to preserve evidence. Also, most states have laws that require someone who learns of the basis for a potential civil claim to preserve all evidence related to the subject matter of the potential claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Your whole argument is based on "it begs the question". I think even you would admit its a weak argument.
    In most jurisdictions, when one frustrates an investigation or civil discovery, it is proper to argue that the finder of fact can reasonably infer that he is trying to hide something. You might think it's a weak argument, but it's worked for me several times.

  16. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    coverup is not a term of art nor is it a legal term of any sort. There is nothing about Steve's training that provides him extra knowledge on the definition of the term.
    Maybe he wears coverup?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

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  18. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Discovery of SMS and GMS text is tricky because on many (most?) phones they can be deleted without a trace. Been there.

    When TB, et. al. learned about the potential of an investigation they had an obligation under NFL rules (and, possibly, law) to preserve evidence, including text messages. If a text message between TB and one of the pawns appeared on the latter's phone but was not on TB's phone, that would be damning evidence of exspoliation of evidence, which would be a breach of the rules (and possibly a violation of law).

    So, no, definitely not a red herring. And this is viewed in the context of the Pats' attorney's refusal to allow access to a witness after discovery of the texts, etc. Failing to cooperate with or thwarting a league investigation is risky shit not only because it's a violation of the rules, but also because it begs the question "what is he trying to hide?"
    The NFLPA does not want players to handover personal phones to NFL investigators it set a bad precedent. It would be different if the phone was owned by the NFL team in this case the Patriots. Team phones were handed over.

    And this
    The appeal letter for Tom Brady's four-game suspension has been drafted by the NFL Players Association, NFL Media's Albert Breer reported Wednesday.

    The letter on behalf of the New England Patriots quarterback will likely be filed on Thursday, before the imposed midnight deadline.

    According to Breer, the emphasis of the NFLPA's letter is to narrow the case down to the basic question of whether or not Brady cheated, after attorney Ted Wells' report pointed to Brady being "at least generally aware of" the conduct between Patriots gameday employees Jim McNally and John Jastremski.

    The NFLPA has added Jeffrey Kessler, a prominent NFL opponent in antitrust cases, to Brady's legal team, as ESPN's Adam Schefter disclosed on Colin Cowherd's The Herd radio program Tuesday.

    “Brady’s team is unreal, I guess,” a source connected to the situation told Schefter via text message. “Talented, big-name lawyers – [Don] Yee, Kessler, etcetera. Prediction = he won’t miss a game.”

    Over the last year, Kessler has helped represent and reinstate NFL players Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
    --Buddha

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  19. #569
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    Deflate, deny, deflect = loss in court of public opinion:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12...ions-tom-brady

    Good publicity month for the NFL. (No, not really). What will they do in June - fire Goodell?

    Still - Why would the NFL want to smear its most accomplished and iconic player? Makes no sense.

    Easy point for Wells to make. See Boston Globe link re Wells' comments here: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...OYL/story.html

  20. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post

    Still - Why would the NFL want to smear its most accomplished and iconic player? Makes no sense.
    IDK maybe Goodell trying to show everyone how fair he is. Going after one of the most hated teams/QBs in the country.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
    --Buddha

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  21. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post

    Good publicity month for the NFL. (No, not really). What will they do in June - fire Goodell?
    Better than talking about Hernandez and speculating about Winston's off field conduct.

    And what flowing said. I was really hoping to not see this thread for a few months.
    "These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"

  22. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckerman View Post
    The NFLPA does not want players to handover personal phones to NFL investigators
    Gee, a union acting like a union. I'm shocked

  23. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    Honestly, 49ers fans (of which I am one), Steelers fans, etc. all need to shut up about this. Every team in the league has cheated in little ways here and there - everyone is looking for an edge - and the idea of dismissing the Pats' Super Bowls and Brady's career because of this is just stupid.

  24. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    the idea of dismissing the Pats' Super Bowls and Brady's career because of this is just stupid.
    Nobody is doing that

  25. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    Still - Why would the NFL want to smear its most accomplished and iconic player? Makes no sense.
    In the middle of the NBA and NHL playoffs all sports channels are all about the NFL most of the time. The focus has been shifted away from the leagues domestic violence issues and onto psi in footballs. The NFL also just took a huge hit at the Pats to reduce their ability to compete and give other afc east teams a chance to compete for the division and increase parity. Further Goodell can distance himself from Kraft, a relationship that apparently had made other owners uncomfortable.

    Since it is the Patriots and most of the country hates them, this is all positive for the NFL. Most fans are enjoying this immensly according to multiple opinion polls. Anything short of dragging the team out and publicly scourging them would be met with applause from a majority of fans.

    I've seen several analyses by very qualified people, PhD in physics etc, who have made a compelling case that it is more probable than not that the balls change in psi were a result of temperature changes and other natural causes. Wells decision to say the guage used to initially measure the balls is not the guage the ref says he used may be the defining evidence that discredits his report.

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