The cancer racket

[assman]

Was at a dinner party last night. One of my good friends was there. Seven years ago during his first routine colonoscopy they found cancer. It turned out to be stage 4 . He has had 2 major surgeries and went for a 3rd last spring and they just closed him up and said "inoperable"

Since then he has been on a chemo regiment. Every two weeks he gets infused. Given the circumstances, his quality of life is good. He goes to work everyday ,travels,parties but his time is limited.

Last night he was saying his medical bills have exceeded $3,000,000

The question of the night was ...how is there ANY incentive to actually cure cancer when the treatment, surgeries etc are so profitable? Most doctors I have contact with are not altruistic. They own Bentleys, Ferraris, Lambos and great vacation houses everywhere. Why kill the golden goose?

Cancer is never getting cured unless the "cure" is a drug engineered so that you must take it daily for the rest of your life at a bankrupting cost.

[DasBlunt]

And this is new news....how?

Profit driven companies, in medicine, are evil.

Doctors are scum. I remind them every time I meet them in the real world.

[digitaldeath]

doctors are scum
pharm industrial complex now a serious thing

pharma spends 4 billion marketing to consumers, 24 billion marketing to doctors and clinic

[GeezerSteve]

The Cancer-Industrial Complex is not breaking news

[tsproul]

And all the companies you buy ski equipment for are selling it to you at cost....plz. Same for your isp, grocery market, shoe and clothing retailers - heck ur fucking toilet paper is sold to u at profit.

Go to the soviet union u commie fucktards. And suck Putin's cock.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You guys should forgo all medical treatment.

You know a lot of docs don't always want to treat certain cancers because it's futile. When a patient is given their options most will choose expensive and usually pointless treatments instead of dying with comfort measures. If a doctor refuses to treat someone with terminal cancer the patient will just go to a doctor that will treat them.

[Tippster]

I really like my Mom's Oncologist. Really good dude - doesn't push more expensive or experimental treatments despite working for Hopkins. If he skied he'd be a maggot. Tri-U is a cancer doc too and he is a stand-up guy (despite being a telemarker. )

[digitaldeath]

And all the companies you buy ski equipment for are selling it to you at cost....plz. Same for your isp, grocery market, shoe and clothing retailers - heck ur fucking toilet paper is sold to u at profit.

Go to the soviet union u commie fucktards. And suck Putin's cock.

bootlicker

[GeezerSteve]

You guys should forgo all medical treatment.

Ah, the ol' back-white logical fallacy.

I don't blame 99.9% of doctors. All the docs I personally know have a good handle on risk/cost/benefit and shake their heads in disgust at the Cancer Industrial Complex, which is a creature of non-MD businessmen. Seattle is ground zero.

[Kied]

That sucks, man. Sorry to hear that.

I've had three friends diagnosed with brain cancer in the last six years, two of which have since passed. I like to believe that there is an incentive to find a cure, but you're right... there's a ton of money in it for the insurance and pharmaceutical companies as is. I don't place as much blame on the doctors as I do the lawmakers that allowed it to get to this point. It's a colossal shit sandwich that needs a priority adjustment.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Ah, the ol' back-white logical fallacy.

I don't blame 99.9% of doctors. All the docs I personally know have a good handle on risk/cost/benefit and shake their heads in disgust at the Cancer Industrial Complex, which is a creature of non-MD businessmen. Seattle is ground zero.

Agreed, I think most docs go into the profession with good intentions, wanting to help people, albeit and make money. The two are not mutually exclusive IMO.

On the other hand, what incentive is there to cure a disease like cancer? Well, lets say a big pharma company has the cure, they can charge in the USA anything they want for that just about, and people are gonna pay it...that is until it gets to be made generically. My point is, something will kill you eventually, and there are opportunities to treat diseases IMO even if cancer were somehow universally cured.

That being said, $3M is stupid expensive...and that's really sad for you and your friend. Vibes.

[stompinlines]

Thats some shitty news.
Radiation Onc docs are on top of the food chain pay scale in most hospitals.

[powtario]

Glad your buddy has been rocking for so long and even at this point still has a really good quality of life. I imagine he has a pretty good idea of how he wants to go once his QoL isn't so good.

For everyone else read Being Mortal by Atul Gawande.

Saying 'cure cancer' is kinda like saying 'world peace'. Lovely dream but in reality really fucking complicated. Surgery cuts it out and can cure, chemo and radiation can help but often can't really get it done. All the new immunological stuff is only nipping at the start of an actual cure but still had miles to go.

HIV requires multiple drugs to keep it under control, and that is how many (not even close to all) cancers will be treated in 20 years. But right now it's 1994 in HIV time for cancer, and that wasn't a great time.

Edit: not saying big pharma is Angels daffodils either.

[GeezerSteve]

I don't place as much blame on the doctors as I do the lawmakers that allowed it to get to this point.

What do you suggest the lawmakers should have done? The Cancer Industrial Complex is the free market at work. Why blame the government for the obvious excesses of capitalism? Any attempt to introduce meaningful cost controls will be countered by claims of big government oppression and fraudulent PR campaigns, e.g, death panel myths.

read Being Mortal by Atul Gawande

Very smart guy and very effective writer. One of my MD buds is a big fan of Gawande. I DVR'd the Frontline from earlier this week, plan to watch soon.

Saying 'cure cancer' is kinda like saying 'world peace'. Lovely dream but in reality really fucking complicated.

yup

[hutash]

I don't know a single MD, DVM, DDS, et al that would not cure any disease erses just treating it. I can't say they don't exist, but if they do they are very rare.

A cure for say, rectal cancer, would be worth billions to the pharma company that invented it. The present model only allows them to profit on one part of that. Do you really think they would turn down the billions to sell a relatively small amount of drugs? Do you think the surgeon doesn't want a cure so he doesn't have to spend time cutting up some asshole?

I want to see my patient, fix it's problem, and move on to the next patient. I really don't want to see it over and over for the same problem. I make more seeing new patients, not dealing with the same one over and over.

[PNWbrit]

Think how much they can charge for the "it cures cancer" drug though.

[huckbucket]

You guys have it all wrong ... seriously.

Those of us who discover and develop cancer drugs do not actively think of ways to create maintenance therapies or the most expensive product imaginable. The goal in the vast majority of cases is simple ... make a drug that is as effective as possible, has as few side effects as possible, treats as many people as possible and beats the current therapy on the market.

The trouble exists when the drug is approved and priced. Manufacture of a routine chemo is cheap. Manufacture of biologics gets pricey. But $100K regimens are becoming common in the era of personalized meds and have caused a big backlash among the majority of physicians who feel we're bankrupting future generations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/bu...anted=all&_r=0

[huckbucket]

Think how much they can charge for the "it cures cancer" drug though.

You don't have to guess.

Sovaldi is a new hep C drug that effectively "cures" infection. 150MM infected people on the planet. Each pill costs $1K. A 12 week course is $84K. You missed the run-up on the Gilead stock unfortunately.

[Kied]

What do you suggest the lawmakers should have done? The Cancer Industrial Complex is the free market at work. Why blame the government for the obvious excesses of capitalism? Any attempt to introduce meaningful cost controls will be countered by claims of big government oppression and fraudulent PR campaigns, e.g, death panel myths.

True. There is no one fix we can make, it's entirely too multifactorial and I won't pretend to know the end-all solution. I choose to (mostly) blame them because they are bought and paid for by big business, they vote self serving and they perpetuate so much of what is wrong with the current situation. Outside of that I should have kept my mouth shut. I hate political discussions and politicians almost as much as I hate cancer.

[Adolf Allerbush]

You don't have to guess.

Sovaldi is a new hep C drug that effectively "cures" infection. 150MM infected people on the planet. Each pill costs $1K. A 12 week course is $84K. You missed the run-up on the Gilead stock unfortunately.

This was kicked around on public radio recently. It's cheaper for the State of Oregon to treat all hep C cases with Sovaldi (in theory) than it would be to take cheaper approaches to treating the symptoms over the long run. That said, I don't think it will happen here because of the drug's sticker shock.

[PNWbrit]

You don't have to guess.

I was joking, kinda.

If we could just get rid of the Chemtrailz that'd cure most cancers anyway. Wouldn't it?

[huckbucket]

I was joking, kinda.

If we could just get rid of the Chemtrailz that'd cure most cancers anyway. Wouldn't it?

Or distribute govt-mandated tinfoil hats. Ya know ... to protect from the chemtrailz rays.

[DBdude]

friend's family recently lost their dad to cancer. he didn't have a chance, but treatment gave him an extra six months. a month after surgery the doctors knew he was done because the tumors came back during chemo and radiation in the second week of treatment. it took the family much longer to accept.

If they hadn't cracked him open to remove all the tumors in his jaw and neck, he would have been dead in less than a month. a tumor(s) was surrounding his carotid artery and would have blocked his blood supply.

after surgery and the reappearance of the tumors, tumors quickly metastasized in his lungs, once that happened they didn't propose anything and all treatment was palliative. the family couldn't accept until dad was really starting to go down hill.

[hutash]

I was joking, kinda.

If we could just get rid of the Chemtrailz that'd cure most cancers anyway. Wouldn't it?

...and vaccinate for HPV.

[neufox47]

Girlfriend is finishing NP schooling and they talk a lot about cost benefit explanations to people at end of life. Apparently the decision most people make with end of life care is "let's try it". This is even worse when you have specialists giving people false hope. There are many stories about the 85 year old woman who now weighs 75lbs and her oncologist is "hopeful that the treatment is working because x labs look promising". There is just no solution to this that most Americans will accept.