Shop work

[HHTELE]

I just dealt with three pair of skis, all of which have never been messed with by the owner, only shops.

#1- Watea 88s. Took off the tele bindings and mounted Dynafits. All the heel screws spun. None of the toes spun. Since tele heels get no torque or pull, I wonder if the shop was overly casual. Or maybe skipped the glue, rotting the core. Could just be skis with bad cores, but weird that just the heel sections were soft.

#2- S3s with Naxo 21's. Borrowed for my niece. The owner is a relatively new skier, but a ridiculously fast learner who was skiing hard and fast her first season. Said she never really liked the skis. Surprising, as they aren't chargers, but they are fun, and as part of a quiver should be entertaining.
I went to adjust the bindings, and there was an astounding amount of slop at the front pivot bolt. I know Naxos are generally sloppy- I have some 02s. I mean slop you can easily feel in the front bolt that would render these crappy to ski. Lot's of literal movement just moving it by hand. She didn't ski these enough to to make the that loose, got them for free from a friend. Looks like nobody noticed all that slop.

#3- a pair of 165 Roxy's I went to set up after I deemed the S3s unskiable. These were set up by the shop for a cautious 120 lb woman. Dins were set at 9.


It just amazes me what people are unknowingly skiing on. I once rattled out of a pair of markers that had just been checked by the shop. Worked fine when I dropped them off, mandatory release check for work. When I looked, the forward pressure, which is easy to set on Markers, was way off. Screw nowhere near flush. My wife had a very unusual release from her tele CRBs after a tune shop backed the bindings to RV of 1 to remove the binding, he didn't reset it. Cracked rib out of that deal.

[glademaster]

I only see one real case of marginal shop work here, the DIN setting issue (other than the RV issue with your wife). It isn't a shop's job to inform you that your bindings are pieces of shit, as long as they are still indemnified. If the shop had told her Naxos suck and are sloppy as shit, she would have come on here or gone on Yelp and bitched about the shop trying to sell her a new binding she doesn't need.

The shop likely was casual with the tele heels for the exact reason you mentioned.

I think the bottom line is that if you use a shop for work, particularly related to bindings or edge sharpening, you need to give the skis a thorough once over before you put them on your feet. For the most part your shop work is being done by a drunk who is hungover, sucks down spoonfuls of mushroom honey throughout his workday and doesn't give a shit about the quality of the work he does as long as it isn't shitty enough to get him fired before the end of his 4 month seasonal employment stint.

[skimaxpower]

I agree with glademaster.

Your tele heels could have spun for any number of reasons. They're older skis, and glue does dry out over time. It could be the shop's fault, but there's no way to know.
Naxos are always sloppy (and that's the reason your niece hated an otherwise good ski.)

There's no excuse for a 120lb woman to have a release setting at 9. That's just sloppy, and it's good no one got hurt.

[HHTELE]

It wasn't the tele heels that were loose. I removed them and installed Dynafits. The back end of both skis was soft. If I had done the original mount, I would be wondering if maybe I had been sloppy, and there was water intrusion. When I install heels, I am usually a few drinks into the project, and they are just tele heels.

Absolutely right that the shop isn't responsible for the slop in a used pair of Naxos. This particular pair is really bad. But, it would have been pretty cool if somebody had noticed, and told her that the skis would ski like crap set up like that.

I am just a hack, but I do end up working on a bunch of skis that have had prior work, and it has made me very cautious. I was given a pair of skis from a good friend with two prior mounts, 2 shops. Removed his Fritchis, and found one ski had a third set of holes, off center, which he wasn't told about.

I like doing my own work. Saving a few bucks is good, and while I do screw stuff up, I end up with stuff that works and is safe. The stuff I see reminds me why, when I do have shop work done, I am selective. And show my appreciation. And direct others to techs I know are professional and attentive.

[skimaxpower]

#1- Watea 88s. Took off the tele bindings and mounted Dynafits. All the heel screws spun.

It wasn't the tele heels that were loose. I removed them and installed Dynafits. The back end of both skis was soft.

So, basically, skis are made out of wood, they spend their life playing in slightly-frozen water, and you over-torqued the screws when installing new bindings. I'm not sure how this is a complaint about a ski shop at all. It is, however, further proof that spinners can happen to even the most attentive person and sometimes it's just shitty luck.

[timmaio]

I just removed a pair of tele bindings from my father in law's skis to find this


So did two wrong mounts before they got one correct one. Plus tore up the topsheet.

Funny too, was done by TGR member willyts while working at a shop in town.

[HHTELE]

Skimaxpower- you are probably right. Worked out fine with inserts, which may hold better.

[Kied]

Where are you getting your shop work done? In the city, some southern state, REI?

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

For the most part your shop work is being done by a drunk who is hungover, sucks down spoonfuls of mushroom honey throughout his workday and doesn't give a shit about the quality of the work he does as long as it isn't shitty enough to get him fired before the end of his 4 month seasonal employment stint.

Why all the hatin' on shop techs. bro?!

[sqikunst]

You might want to go check how Markers are meant to be set up in terms of forward pressure again. There is a little grove on the Screw head....

[bielz]

You might want to go check how Markers are meant to be set up in terms of forward pressure again. There is a little grove on the Screw head....

I think you should, marker forward pressure on pretty much ever binding is set when the screw is flush. Groove should be in the binding. You made me climb a flight of stairs to check my tech manual to make sure I hadn't done a few thousand bindings wrong.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Skimaxpower- you are probably right. Worked out fine with inserts, which may hold better.

Inserts ALWAYS hold better than regular mounting screws. Like four times better actually.

[HHTELE]

Inserts ALWAYS hold better than regular mounting screws. Like four times better actually.

That's what I am banking on. Some concern that, since 8/8 toe screws bit in nicely while 8/8 heel screws spun, that the tails are too soft to hold anything. Hoping thin increased surface area does the trick.

This is my friends first go with Dynafits. Pretty sure they won't spend long on these particular boards.

And Bielz- thanks for confirming that. I thought flush with the housing was right.

[skifishbum]

Why all the hatin' on shop techs. bro?!

shoprat stole his only chance of gettin laid and skied his pow
whilst

as a stoner shop rat i'd advise not using shitty marker binders and checking your gear before touring

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Inserts ALWAYS hold better than regular mounting screws. Like four times better actually.

Are you talking about t-nut type inserts or BF/QK? Where did the 4x number come from? Heli-coils would definitely be a lot stronger given their coarser and deeper thread than inserts. BF/QK have an external machine screw thread and while that may be good enough I always wondered why they weren't made with the same thread as a heli-coil or wood screw insert.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Are you talking about t-nut type inserts or BF/QK? Where did the 4x number come from? Heli-coils would definitely be a lot stronger given their coarser and deeper thread than inserts. BF/QK have an external machine screw thread and while that may be good enough I always wondered why they weren't made with the same thread as a heli-coil or wood screw insert.

I was referring to the BF/QK inserts, not heli-coils. On a tensile-testing machine, we compared the pull out strength of a regular binding screw vs. inserts. The test proved that the pull out failures of the screws in inserts averaged about four times higher than a standard mounting screw.

[Alpinord]

Are you talking about t-nut type inserts or BF/QK? Where did the 4x number come from? Heli-coils would definitely be a lot stronger given their coarser and deeper thread than inserts. BF/QK have an external machine screw thread and while that may be good enough I always wondered why they weren't made with the same thread as a heli-coil or wood screw insert.

The BF and QK outer threads are a standard 5/16"-18 NC (course, not machine) which is also universal/standard tap. The ski sert heli coil and AB12 threads are specific to alpine binding screws only and more proprietary.

(I'll add an image of the heli coil, BF insert and alpine screw later.)

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Okay. The BF/QK inserts don't really look coarse compared to a binding screw or heli-coil. They don't seem as coarse as the insert design in this paper either.http://www.physics.byu.edu/docs/thesis/391
The pullout isn't even twice that of a normal binding screw according to his measurements when comparing what looks to be BF/QK inserts with standard ski screws. It seems his original design was coarser and his proposed design after testing was between the two.

[Alpinord]

Here ya go: