cross coutry set up

[charles martel]

THIS^

I was an absolute noob to the crosscountry skiing two years ago. I picked up a pair of Fischer Crown Summits (190 something, waxless, fishscale, NNN clamps) along with some Alpina boots. Classic set up. I break trail behind my house out into the woods and ski laps around local fields. NNN was super easy as far as just locking in, and then kick and glide. I was out yesterday in 22 inches of snow. First lap sucked balls, but everything after that one was fantastic.

Wonderful!

[GeezerSteve]

Yup, setting your own XC track and doing laps is simple pleasure fun. That's how I started skiing 40 years ago.

[EarlyWood]

shredhed that ORS Direct site is great..
My biggest problem has been finding NNN BC boots my size... this has eliminated most all options.
I'm going to try to squeeze into an Alpina 1550 (49) ordered from ORS
Plus Fischer OX 68 skis (I think)
Re: breaking trail, riding around in a Kubota today I realized the wide tires are laying tracks that may be used (?)
Long story short, I've locked in on BC boots...may search for skis locally .
Thanks for all the info and encouragement..

[Notchtop]

Hey man that Fischer looks like a nice ski. Somewhere between the Rossi 65 and 70.
If you get those, I have found Fischer crown pattern fish scales need more F4 than traditional rounded scales. The upside is I feel crown pattern is less draggy because it seems to me to be lower profile. Downside is they don't bite as hard (no big deal on most meadow skipping) and like I said they need to be liquid waxed more often (every 15 to 20 miles?) to prevent sticky foot in "hot pow" and other miserable sticky conditions.
No matter what you get have a great time! Kubotas make fine trail breakers so long as you don't get refreeze. Frozen atv or tractor paths tend to suck.

[neonorchid]

shredhed that ORS Direct site is great..
My biggest problem has been finding NNN BC boots my size... this has eliminated most all options.
I'm going to try to squeeze into an Alpina 1550 (49) ordered from ORS
Plus Fischer OX 68 skis (I think)
Re: breaking trail, riding around in a Kubota today I realized the wide tires are laying tracks that may be used (?)
Long story short, I've locked in on BC boots...may search for skis locally .
Thanks for all the info and encouragement..

Re: Boots.
When i first put together a XC BC setup a few years ago i had the Alpina 1550. Tried the size i wear in a running shoe and the size down (no half sizes), they were a little big and a little small. Worst was that in both sizes the break spot (where the boot upper bends and folds when flexed), pressed down at the base (start) of my big toe's toe nail, ouch. I got rid of them. Next up was a Fischer BC-X6, much better support, nice lacing goes up to the top of the boot. Started out good then began pinching in at my metatarsal heads, ouch! The last straw with them occurred after climbing Skull Crusher at Garnet Hill in the ADacks. The ankle sides prematurely broke down, pressed into the area around the malleous, again, ouch. Got rid of them too.
Sadly boot options are so limited. I'm hoping the Salomon X-Adv 6 i just picked up work out better. Hate having to pull my NNN-BC binders off and install Salomon's binding. As you can see i've pretty much been thru them all... Madshus Glitertind was a terrible fit. Rossignol BC-X line to wide of a heel cup and other stupid uncomfortable design decisions by Rossi. The Alpina Alaska is about the only other option if the Solly fails - and back to where i started:\

[EarlyWood]

Re: Boots.
When i first put together a XC BC setup a few years ago i had the Alpina 1550. Tried the size i wear in a running shoe and the size down (no half sizes), they were a little big and a little small. Worst was that in both sizes the break spot (where the boot upper bends and folds when flexed), pressed down at the base (start) of my big toe's toe nail, ouch. I got rid of them. Next up was a Fischer BC-X6, much better support, nice lacing goes up to the top of the boot. Started out good then began pinching in at my metatarsal heads, ouch! The last straw with them occurred after climbing Skull Crusher at Garnet Hill in the ADacks. The ankle sides prematurely broke down, pressed into the area around the malleous, again, ouch. Got rid of them too.
Sadly boot options are so limited. I'm hoping the Salomon X-Adv 6 i just picked up work out better. Hate having to pull my NNN-BC binders off and install Salomon's binding. As you can see i've pretty much been thru them all... Madshus Glitertind was a terrible fit. Rossignol BC-X line to wide of a heel cup and other stupid uncomfortable design decisions by Rossi. The Alpina Alaska is about the only other option if the Solly fails - and back to where i started:\

re: the Alpine 1550, I ordered them thru ORS direct and then found the reviews on Amazon which many claim the same problem..
I could be fucked...just can't find any boot in a size 49-50 and honestly tired of trying and striking out..hoping the Alpinas fit and I don't get the lemon..one guy didn't have any issues :-))

[Alpinord]

Did you do any research on Whitewood boots? Their sizing goes up to 49s.

[EarlyWood]

Did you do any research on Whitewood boots? Their sizing goes up to 49s.

That's a great find but unless I just missed something (not unusual) they're all NNN

EDIT yeah I missed that link that says BC BOOTS
Double EDIT: GREAT FIND...with many dealers within range.. gettn excited

Not sure I "need" BC but like having the option and can be hard on equipment at least in Alpine but this ain't alpine right?
Maybe I need to adjust to being put out to pasture on these, smell the roses?

Can you or anyone vouch for the Whitewood quality in skis and boots? (this opens up lotta options though...and think if I shift to NNN it's easier to find my size, at least in 49...which not sure will fit yet)<---this comment could be toast

and neon, the reviews @ the 1550 that many seem to have had, just like you, is the break spot you mention at the big toe..
looking forward to that pain

Notch, thanks for the heads up on the F4..good to know

[Alpinord]

I can't vouch for the Whitewoods, but the boots might be just fine for backyard touring and at lower cost. Maybe you need to rent some gear and see how it feels to you. Definitely clean and wax your 'waxless' skis so they glide better and don't ice/cake up under foot.

My progression over the past 25 years of backyard touring in a variety of conditions has increased my xc quiver including long classic and scaled skis touring skis w/NNN, shorter, wider BC touring scaled skis w/edges and BC-NNN, patterned based (Fischer crown) rugged touring w/tele and Silvrettas and now Voile Charger BCs w/tech bindings. Also, skate skis. Yesterday the corn on crust was a blast. XC or BC skis weren't the right 'tool'.

My BC-NNN is definitely the 'go too' rig for quickly getting out for a workout, cutting trails and touring with lightweight gear. Part of the addition of beefier gear was for finding turns because the XC classic and BC-NNN set up (Rossi boots and skis) really never have been capable enough for decent turns but are like skiing with lightweight hiking boots. I can steer well on firmer snows but in deep snow there isn't enough ankle support to really make turns. I've had this set up for 12 or 15 years I think and they are beat up but functionally fine. So, I would bet about any BC-NNN set-up will be fine for getting out and last a while. Lots of people who get XC gear can get years out it due to typically low use.

Regarding track setting, the initial lap in new snow is great for a workout. Subsequent offset laps might be worthwhile for a wider track. To pack it better, widen it and fill in dog (or elk) tracks, a sled on a waist strap with some weight works well. Fresh snowmobile tracks are sweet and snowshow tracks in the mix also packs out well, followed by ski laps. For total resistance training, I built a medieval track setter which I used to drag around with a climbing harness. It doesn't get out much anymore.

[Shredhead]

shredhed that ORS Direct site is great..
My biggest problem has been finding NNN BC boots my size....

Glad you found it useful. Fit is really important if your going to put in the miles. Take your time, good equipment will last a long time.

Tire tracks may be okay, but I think you could fab a track setter out of old skis easily and drag that behind the tractor. A single snowmobile track is nice.
Nothing screws up a XC track like a yahoo fishtails on a 4 wheeler.

[Alpinord]

To add to the above blog, the Charger BC rig is good for track setting, also.

[EarlyWood]

Nothing screws up a XC track like a yahoo fishtails on a 4 wheeler.

well I just fucked up some nice snow then ..
not to late to buff it out...thinking of body dragging something.. think I like Alpinlords harness idea with weights...maybe I can drag some dead cats or the pain in the ass black lab

[Harry]

Plus Fischer OX 68 skis (I think)

Good choice, those are the skis I have. (Mounted NNN-BC)

[EarlyWood]

Boots arrived five minutes ago...am looking at a box
We're all on pins and needles here..
I'm goin in

[EarlyWood]

these Alpina 1550's run large...I easily (i think) could have gone with a 48
Plenty of room in toe box, @ 1/2'' from end of toe, and they seem to be for a wide foot
I prob don't wanna double up socks right?

I shoulda done a tr...making coffee, clipping toe nails, trying em on, walkn on em, kicking the cat..
I'm only kiddn...I didn't make coffee

Also...I can't say these have quality written on them....the Velcro power strap releases so easily I can't imagine them holding throughout many laps..
this is all going to have to wait

[GeezerSteve]

No, don't go with 2 pr sox. XC boot should fit with single thin sock. 1/2" room forward of toe is too much. Too wide is bad

[Jacques Sheer-Rocko]

"Not sure I "need" BC but like having the option and can be hard on equipment at least in Alpine but this ain't alpine right?
Maybe I need to adjust to being put out to pasture on these, smell the roses?"

Alpina CrossTerrain changed my life! I thought when I got them that they'd be strictly a shits and giggles thing to maintain fitness between "real skiing" while enjoying the snow on the farm. Fast forward ten years and I now maintain a couple miles of trail and a few acres of downhill with about 60' vert. right out the door. I find myself clearing brush in the fall on a bunch of favorite stashes on nearby bluffs and hills. I poach ski hills in the Midwest and CO pre and post season as well as midweek on the local hills that are only open weekends. Parks, golf courses, hilly college campuses... I can bust a tele-heli off just about anything with these. I ride lifts with them while teaching kids to ski so that after they wreck I can ski back up to pick up the pieces and get the lil buggers back on their feet. I race my niece uphill while she rides the local t-bar and it's her favorite part of a ski day. These newer wide body waxless XC skis are so much more versatile and just plain fun than I ever imagined.
My point is that just because "this ain't alpine" doesn't mean you have to go full on Forest Fairy with your equipment. Size the skis like you would for alpine/tele, get pins or a cheap tele binding (NNN isn't robust enough), and some lightweight but plastic boots. I'm now on a Karhu Guide (since changed to Madshus Annum) with bottom-of-the-line G3 tele bindings and old Scarpa T3s. Lightweight and bomber. Dave Watson chose that same ski for Everest and K2.
And if you can ski well, the tele turn is interesting, useful, and easy.

[EarlyWood]

I'm an idiot. Too much of a lunchtime rush earlier....I'm wearing em now...maybe sleep with em
A thicker pair of sox and these are good to go... And I can't knock this product until using it...the velco tension is lateral anyway not upward so I could be wrong with my comment.
I gotta say they're comfortable...
Jacques..that's an inspiring story and appreciated..
Someone please tell me this isn't a gateway to becoming a patchouli luving telemarker...

[Alpinord]

Someone please tell me this isn't a gateway to becoming a patchouli luving telemarker...

....or worse, a spandex covered nord.

[EarlyWood]

Been noodling around here on the cross country skis...already damaged a rib on a golf course, getting pile driven into firm ground while attempting the "I got this" steep knoll thing. Why do most golf course seem to have these bumps that look like an oversized Twinky....yeah that thing.

I'm loving the Alpina 1550 boots so far, very comfortable, no toe crease issues and they double as the go to snowshoe boot. (disregard any of my earlier comments cause I hadn't even used em then...pretty happy so far)

Regarding skis purchased, I drove lots and was excited to hear of a pair Rossy BC 65s available so went there, looked at them and balked at the skinniness ( I know..this is what the sport is/was about). My impatience won over, I wanted to get on skis that very day.. alongside the Rossys were Alpina Discovery 68s in 190, the guy made it sound like a deal...I knew nothing about them and I believe, neither did he.....They're prob too soft (?).I'm happy with the glide, liking the pronounced upturned tips... my descents are purely survival..

There's miles of horse trails here thru woods with plenty excitement to be had but I'm thinking I need to be locking my heel on some of the stuff...I get the whole cross country glide thing, it's great, enjoyable, but I'm going to kill myself in the woods.

Is there a wide cross country ski for AT bindings, that can get by without skins?

Guess I need more of a hybrid, wider skis... or I need to learn some skills.

[BigDaddy]

Page or PM Peruvian. He is the wide wax less ski king.

Hope the rib's healing.

[Peruvian]

Saw my name while scrolling through the threads.

I've got waxless skis ranging from 44-114mm underfoot. My advice - "don't suck".

[EarlyWood]

Saw my name while scrolling through the threads.

I've got waxless skis ranging from 44-114mm underfoot. My advice - "don't suck".

I need to get the terminology straight then..

Waxless (beside no need for wax?) refers to all scaled bases for uphill travel? then I'll take two of those wide ones with AT bindings ..suggestions on binding welcome..

If I can figure out how to turn the skinnies 68, 70s or similar then great, ... so far the only downhill maneuvers I'm finding on the web is snow plow, step turns, or drag your poles so you don't kill yourself.... trial and error downhill descents in a small wooded lot here are not confidence building...doing the exact opposite.

The type of touring found on our last snowshoe exploration involves short / semi long white knuckle descents (considering skill level on these skinny things) mixed with long flat or slightly rolling terrain...every ten minutes or so I'd wanna lock the heels, not fool around with skins and get on with it..

Remember.. fix the heel solve the problem.

EW.. alienating the only folks who can turn these little frkn things (?)

[GeezerSteve]

Damn, my fishscale quiver range is only 44mm-112mm

On light Nordic gear gotta learn step turns

Re AT bindings for fat fishscale, e.g., Voile Vector BC, see my posts on other threads re AT boots in TTS. Speed Radical, Speed Classic, Turn and Vertical ST work fine too. The problem with AT race bindings for fat fishscale is that most lack flat mode and you gotta have flat mode for fat fishscales.

[rob stokes]

Is there a wide cross country ski for AT bindings, that can get by without skins?

Guess I need more of a hybrid, wider skis... or I need to learn some skills.

Skimo race ski with DIY fishscales? $$$$$ but light as fuck.