Athletes or daredevils?

[ill-advised strategy]

how important is the terminology?

Can you reduce somebody's accomplishment by mislabeling it?..and if so, what does that say about the role of labels and the status of the accomplishment?

It's a sea of bullshit. We're adrift in a sea of bullshit so why bother.

[Kinnikinnick]

Those in the ski movies are definitely athletes in that most of the stuff making the cut is pretty highly skilled skiing, even the airs. But they are also Daredevils in that the scenes making the films are for the most part those where the risk is upped and there is a a good potential for injury or death. In certain cases, like McConkey, they do push the limit further and further in search of both the thrill/publicity/sponsorship money. And eventually if they keep pushing it there is only one alternative for how it ends.

I too saw McConkey and rather than left with thoughs of 'oh how great McConkey was,' I was left feeling that it was a waste of talent and sad to see him abandon his wife and wee daughter.

Probably why I stopped watching most of the annual ski movie crop. Too much pushing the limit stuntman stuff for my tastes.

[XXX-er]

Is a really good bowler any less of an athlete than an nfl kicker or a 1 inning left handed relief pitcher?

Games can be more or less atheletic on a continuum, bowling is a game, in france a fat frenchman can make a living as a pro lawn bowler, I would have to say golf is a game

Pro skiers are atheletes, the fat intermediates I seen in the cafe today ... maybe not

[EaglesPDX]

Needing to go do some sketchy thing that's probably going to kill or maim you because you feel hollow and depressed without it....that's a state of addiction.

But that does not at all describe Auclair and Fransson's lives but you keep stating it in those terms ("addiction", "sketchy" "kill/maim", "depression") and that is what I disagree with and what Auclair and Fransson's lives totally contradict. They were as "present" at home with their kids or writing their diaries.

They were extraordinary athletes which meant when they competed their skill level made it dangerous. Part of their common description of being "present" was their focus on preparation. They were not reckless so not "daredevils".

[nest]

Yeti- you are very talented writer and a perceptive dude. Definitely one of the most interesting people on here.

[Coño Frío]

You guys (and MntGirl) did not disappoint. You have my brain engaged. I get the points and counter-points being made. All valid. Especially the most poignant first reply from stompinlines.

I appreciate the references to JP and Andreas. Reading the tributes to them in this month’s Powder was part of that instigated my rant, but I purposefully left them out of it for a couple reasons. First and foremost being that I view those guys and what they doing was neither sport nor stunt, but rather adventure and exploration. Admittedly I don’t know their motivations so I may be totally off base.


For man to seek adventure, and to “fully live in the present” (I love Alan Watts, by the way) is a noble calling. So I believe. Mallory nailed it in ’23 when he replied “Because it’s there.” I get the pull of the siren song. As long as one is properly prepared, fully understands the risks, AND is doing it for the right reasons…which shouldn’t be “for the money”, or “for the fame”, or “to remain relevant”.

[skiballs]

Games can be more or less atheletic on a continuum, bowling is a game, in france a fat frenchman can make a living as a pro lawn bowler, I would have to say golf is a game

Pro skiers are atheletes, the fat intermediates I seen in the cafe today ... maybe not

D1 NCAA golfers carry a 25lb bag 10+ miles in all weather conditions. While staying foucused for 8+ hours. Not all golf is fat intermediates.

[mtngirl79]

I'm fat and I can carry more than 25 lbs 10 miles with a lot more elevation gain than you'll find on a golf course...

[skiballs]

I'm fat and I can carry more than 25 lbs 10 miles with a lot more elevation gain than you'll find on a golf course...

I'm always looking for a good caddie.

[east or bust]

Eagles I think you are caught up to much on JP and Andreas. It seems like this thread was more directed at the whole, which includes people like McConkey, Roner, Townsend, the list goes on. The risks that Fransson took in his career were undoubtedly different than those I've listed, he just had a different style.

Back to the OP, I'm with yeti, the guys at the forefront are adrenaline junkies, it's what they're wired for. They get satisfaction by beating risk, when the risk is increased, the level of satisfaction also increases. The principle is dangerous because once a certain level of risk is attained it's just rolling the dice. Like the OP said, if these athletes were to go back and redo some of the lines, what do you think the success rate would be? IMHO we've reached a point where if the top big mountain free ride guys live long enough to retire, they're lucky.


On a side note, I've watched McConkey the last two nights in a row by coincidence. Weird.

Yeti- you are very talented writer and a perceptive dude. Definitely one of the most interesting people on here.

Agreed.



Coño I would say your description in post 33 fits Andreas more than JP.

[XXX-er]

D1 NCAA golfers carry a 25lb bag 10+ miles in all weather conditions. While staying foucused for 8+ hours. Not all golf is fat intermediates.

They are walking on what amounts to somebodies fairly flat lawn, i wonder if they wana don touring gear and knock off 10,000ft of vertical and besides don't the really good golfers have a caddie to carry their bag?

BTW I'm in northern BC where there is snow on the greens and its too fucking cold for golf and I was actualy talking about fat intermediate skiers

[EaglesPDX]

...the guys at the forefront are adrenaline junkies, it's what they're wired for. They get satisfaction by beating risk, when the risk is increased, the level of satisfaction also increases. The principle is dangerous because once a certain level of risk is attained it's just rolling the dice.

A pop psychology cliche generalization that is contradicted by Auclair and Fransson's lives and writings which is why I mentioned them as examples. If two of the most high profile adventure skiers contradict the cliche, perhaps others do as well.

[creaky fossil]

Maybe the "adrenaline junkie" theme is grounded in something solid, but offered in a muddled way.

For some athletes their sense of what is fast/risky differs from others because part of their genetic gift portfolio is perception/poise.

What is risk? If you do something time and again and avoid danger, what does that series of successes do to the idea of "what is risk?"

Is it just changing your perception? Does enhanced poise/tranquility suggest adaptation?

Some seem to think it suggests mental problems ("death wish!"). I think it's like anything else humans can do. Some can do better just by being alive, that's what they got genetically and it's what they have nurtured athletically/existentially. The more you can't see yourself doing something, the more you think those who do that something have "a screw loose" etc.

I think people who set aside everything to get rich, they're the ones with mental problems. "Poor old Binkley. A millionaire by 30, dead of stroke/heart attack/etc by 35."

[skiballs]

They are walking on what amounts to somebodies fairly flat lawn, i wonder if they wana don touring gear and knock off 10,000ft of vertical and besides don't the really good golfers have a caddie to carry their bag?

BTW I'm in northern BC where there is snow on the greens and its too fucking cold for golf and I was actualy talking about fat intermediate skiers

Easy guy, I'm just pointing out that not all golf is fat old men. Durning that 10 mile hike, the bag gets picked up and put down probably 80 times. You also do a couple hundred full squats. And the best part is, it may be 95 degrees and 90 percent humidity with full sunshine. I'm guessing you have never walked and carried your bag 36 holes in the summer heat. One of the guys on the team I played on ( 30 years ago ), 6ft white boy that could do 360 dunks on the bball court. One time we went down to the gym to play some pick up basket ball, and the golfer dunks on this skinny 5'9" black kid. The next time the black kid has the ball he takes off from the foul line and dunks. Turns out he had won the silver metal in the 1984 Olympics, for the triple jump. There's nothing like playing some sports with world class athletes, to make you humble.

[creaky fossil]

golf is funny, all the athleticism is done while standing, you don't have to be able to run up a hill without dying in order to have a good golf swing and excellent course management skills. if you've ever watched a great golfer bend the ball at will, make it fly this way or that, intentionally while calling out the shot before the swing, you might think it's a clever parlor trick that should be done on stage in a top hat like Mandrake the Magician, but it's athletic skill on display. though you can hone golf skills without being able to be even half-competitive in a running/moving sport. why would you use golf as a comparo? that's like saying someone who breezes through higher maths (calculus and above) isn't brilliant in math just because the math wizard can't get philosophy, or can't write worth a damn.

[creaky fossil]

ambidextrous skips?

[XXX-er]

Easy guy, I'm just pointing out that not all golf is fat old men. Durning that 10 mile hike, the bag gets picked up and put down probably 80 times. You also do a couple hundred full squats. And the best part is, it may be 95 degrees and 90 percent humidity with full sunshine. I'm guessing you have never walked and carried your bag 36 holes in the summer heat. One of the guys on the team I played on ( 30 years ago ), 6ft white boy that could do 360 dunks on the bball court. One time we went down to the gym to play some pick up basket ball, and the golfer dunks on this skinny 5'9" black kid. The next time the black kid has the ball he takes off from the foul line and dunks. Turns out he had won the silver metal in the 1984 Olympics, for the triple jump. There's nothing like playing some sports with world class athletes, to make you humble.

How about if points were given for finishing the game fast so you pick that bag up and run with it, you would then have to control your breathing enough for the shot and get back running, speed could give you enough points to beat accuracy ... now ya got a sport eh?

Instead its a game that requires more athelisicm than bowling but its a game, people smoke/ drink/ ride in electric carts whilst doing it

I notice a lotta pro hockey players like to play the game of golf when they wash out of the playoffs

Personaly I play the game about every 10 or 20 years or so whether I need to or not and its not hard to be in enough shape to walk around a golf course if you do real sports, remember to wear a hat hydrate ... easy

[skiballs]

people smoke/ drink/ ride in electric carts whilst doing it

I do that while skiing, what's the difference?

[DBdude]

I'm always looking for a good caddie.

wiping monitor clean of coffee

[TBS]

A pop psychology cliche generalization that is contradicted by Auclair and Fransson's lives and writings which is why I mentioned them as examples. If two of the most high profile adventure skiers contradict the cliche, perhaps others do as well.

You keep bringing up Auclair's and Fransson's mindset as if you have some sort of inside info. Would you explain for us how you arrived at such great insight? Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist who has interviewed them at length? Did you spend a lot of time skiing and climbing with them? Read some articles about them in Powder & Backcountry?

[SB]

Darealetes?

[Bromontana]

Darealetes?

Gotta love the oh so close zoolander connection

[Coño Frío]

Is Nik Wallenda an athlete or a daredevil? Did we (not me actually, but the millions who did tune in) watch to admire his athletic prowress? Or we're we (again not me) watching (hoping?) with a macabre fascination because he might fail and thus die on live TV?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29875647

Is this what is takes to get Pub these days? And are we who demand more risk and more 'authentic' danger in order to be entertained any more civilized than the Roman masses who reveled in the cult of death and the orgy of violence that the gladiators (mere slaves) would offer at the behest of their elites?

I'm not sure where I truly stand to be honest. Sometimes I feel pretty f#cking Roman.

[XXX-er]

I do that while skiing, what's the difference?

which sounds like those intermediates in the bar doing a less atheletic version of what could be termed atheletics

Earlier you were just talking about some athletes playing a game, which is pretty much the same as pro hockey players going to Hawaii to play golf when they didn't make the playoffs in a very athletic game

do you ski tour, do you ski up for 5 hrs 10hrs 24 hrs? No bar no free ride up there, booze ain't gona get you thru its just you and yer balls ... or ovaries as the case may be

[ill-advised strategy]

orgy of violence