Building Code Issues - Clearance around Stove - Little Help?

[Fejj]

Looking for input from construction/handy mags. I'm not particularly well versed in construction and everyone knows this is the place the get answers.

Here's my scenario:

When my kitchen was constructed (before I owned the house), the builder installed counters with ~2 1/4" nosing. He neglected to account for that when building the cabinets. To avoid having the top drawers hit the nosing, he installed an extra layer of plywood to lift the counters up. The counters are ~37" from the floor. The upper cabinets were installed at the normal height (54" from the floor). The space between the countertops and the bottom of the upper cabinets is ~17".

This creates an issue when it comes to our stove installation. From my local building code:

9.10.22.3. Protection around Cooktops

1. Except as provided in sentences 2 and 3, combustible wall framing, finishes or cabinets within 450mm of the area where the cooktop is to be located shall be protected above the level of the heating elements or burners by material providing a fire resistance at least equal to that provided by a 9.5mm thickness of gypsum board.
...
3. ...cabinetry located not less than 450mm above the level of the heating elements or burners need not be protected as described in sentence 1.

This applies to electric or gas stoves. Since moving in, I have had my stove installed flush with the countertops and accepted what I perceive to be a low risk. I am now selling the house and the buyers are concerned about this. I am looking for a practical solution. Options I see include:

1. Lower the stove (it has adjustable legs) so that the burners are the required 450mm (~18") from the cabinets. They would then sit below the tops of the counters, with only the edge of the countertops exposed. The counters are corian and as far as I can gather, that is not a combustible material. The local gas inspector insists that the stove cannot sit lower than flush with the counters though, regardless of my arguing. So this one is pretty much out.

2. Replace the countertops. This is probably the way Mike Holmes would do it, but it's big money and the house is only 3 years old.

3. Remove countertops and cut off the nosing, add a nice bevel and polish smooth. Remove spacer plywood and reinstall counters. Add trim at bottom of backsplash. Not sure the counters would come out in one piece. Also would require a fine touch on the countertop cutting, beveling, etc. Not sure this is even practical.

4. Raise the upper cabinets to get the required clearance. I am pursuing this option with local finishing carpenters. Tricky part will be taking things apart without damage as well as dealing with the large uninterrupted panel next to the fridge that runs from floor to tip of upper cabinets. I'm not certain where the cabinets are from (builder isn't around) so finding pieces in matching stain could be tricky. Also will leave a gap in the backsplash that will require fixing and the upper cabinets would be too high. Medium money.

5. Add some "heat shield" to the bottom of the cabinets in the vicinity of the stove. Convince the inspector that this satisfies the intent of the code.

While I have more than the required clearance above the stove (750mm or ~30"), there is a clause in the code that allows the clearance directly above the cooktop to be reduced if their is either a range hood or the cabinets "are protected by asbestos millboard not less than 6mm thick, covered by sheet metal not less than 0.33mm thick. ". While I don't need to apply this directly above the stove, I feel like something like this should be able to be installed to protect the cabinets adjacent to the stove in the event of a grease fire. I haven't found much yet in my online sleuthing. I called a local woodstove shop and they suggested cementboard as a product typically installed to reduce the required clearance around woodstoves. I'm thinking of a piece of cementboard (same as millboard?) wrapped in custom cut, bent and painted sheetmetal would do the trick and probably not look too awful. I also saw these, which are intended for wood stoves, but I thought maybe they could be cut to fit, leaving the uncut edges facing out. I'm going to call the mfr. and inquire.

Wondering if anyone has dealt with this issue or has any thoughts. Need a solution that satisfies the local inspector (who doesn't have much to offer in the way of suggestions) as well as the buyers of our house, but doesn't break the bank. Thanks in advance.

[::: :::]

I'd be inclined to lower the counter. Corian is heat weldable so you should be able to get the counters back to normal, assuming clean extraction and a color that's not too pattern-y.
No idea on cost...you need to chase that down.
The fireproofed cabinet detail you suggest sounds awful

[patxi]

A photo might help for some better suggestions.

How big of a project would it be to remove the lower cabinets and cut off the bottom 1" so that everything sits lower? If that is not feasible, I would be inclined to look into a solution of installing glass/tile/stainless cladding on the surfaces that are too close to the cook surface.

[Cruiser]

Option 6: Tell buyers to go and buy a brand new house if they want everything to be perfect.

[zion zig zag]

Option 6: Tell buyers to go and buy a brand new house if they want everything to be perfect.

No shit. How did they even notice that 1"?

[Cruiser]

Overzealous home inspector no doubt. Those vultures do everything in their power to frighten prospective buyers and to create a negotiating advantage for the buyer's agent. I'd politely tell them to go and get fucked. But that's just me...

[mud]

Cruiser is right.
Tell the buyers that is how you bought it and will not fix it.

However if you need to sell right now option 3 would probably be the cheapest way to go.
Get a few estimates for that job and go with the lowest one and tell the sellers you will knock that amount off the price of the house and they can do the work themselves.

[snoqpass]

Around here the kitchen is usually the first thing to go after a sale

[warthog]

Around here the kitchen is usually the first thing to go after a sale

This. They are just being difficult. First time homebuyers? Call their bluff. If they pass on the deal because of counter tops, screw 'em.

[Fejj]

Thanks for the replies so far.

A photo might help for some better suggestions.

How big of a project would it be to remove the lower cabinets and cut off the bottom 1" so that everything sits lower? If that is not feasible, I would be inclined to look into a solution of installing glass/tile/stainless cladding on the surfaces that are too close to the cook surface.

I'll see if I can post photos later. I feel like it would be pretty difficult to lower the cabinets from the bottom, but maybe that would work. Feels like it would be a lot of labour, but I'm a bit ignorant to cabinet construction.

Overzealous home inspector no doubt. Those vultures do everything in their power to frighten prospective buyers and to create a negotiating advantage for the buyer's agent. I'd politely tell them to go and get fucked. But that's just me...

It's a small town. I had a gasfitter point it out to me once and they talked to him about an unrelated gas issue. The topic came up.

This. They are just being difficult. First time homebuyers? Call their bluff. If they pass on the deal because of counter tops, screw 'em.

Not first timers. Just very concerned about insurance/liability. Given the market here right now and my need to sell, I'm trying to come up with something practical.

[Fejj]

Around here the kitchen is usually the first thing to go after a sale

Don't think that's the plan. It was built in 2012.

[BCMtnHound]

2yr old home and no warranty regarding a building code fuck-up during construction?

[::: :::]

2yr old home and no warranty regarding a building code fuck-up during construction?

Good point, but good luck collecting. Gotta have the stomach for it...

[::: :::]

A photo might help for some better suggestions.

How big of a project would it be to remove the lower cabinets and cut off the bottom 1" so that everything sits lower?

Counter & backsplash would have to move in this option too, so it's not the most efficient process

[::: :::]

Cruiser is right.
Tell the buyers that is how you bought it and will not fix it.

However if you need to sell right now option 3 would probably be the cheapest way to go.
Get a few estimates for that job and go with the lowest one and tell the sellers you will knock that amount off the price of the house and they can do the work themselves.

Sounds like a decent plan...and minimizes the threat of doing shitty work for the new owners...


Any backup offers to leverage against your buyer?

[irul&ublo]

Asbestos mill board? Is that allowed in residential use? I don't think so


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[back bowl]

Where I live, there's no building code, but I wanted a commercial range in my kitchen and I did everything with insulated backerboard covered with stamped tin. Looks pretty sharp in my kitchen. That's the backsplash and over the stove (not cabinets, but same difference).

[Vt-Freeheel]

The asbestos board being shown as a fix shows how old this code is. The gas fitter should be stabbed in the neck for bringing it up. Inspector would likely not have found something so obscure.
The funny thing is if the cabinets would catch fire at 17" they would most certainly go up in flames at 18".
The trouble with #3 is how the was the Corian attached? The granite fab co. I use epoxies the counter in place and it would be difficult to remove, if it was even possible. I would guess the corian installers took advantage of the full sheet of ply and "glued" it down well.
When I install uppers I screw the boxes together so they might come out without a lot of trouble.
The easiest way to fix it might be new corian with a raised back to fill the space.

Good luck

[schuss]

Offer them $500 towards fixing it and move on.

[XXX-er]

To me a building inspector is the guy in the town or city building dept who can pass or reject construction based on what he sees, which is different from a guy who gets hired to see if a house that is being purchased has any issues ... I'm not clear on which guy is this?

the guy who passes the new construction is god period so you do what he sez or no occupancy permit, but if this is just the guy who does an inspection on a purchase the house already has the occupancy permit so its you who either sez ya or nay which depends on how bad you want to sell

[fatnslow]

Are you in a sellers market ? If you have a listing agent tell them to write as is on th stove or wait to sell the house for another buyer. Funny how creative and compelling agents can get when they stand to delay a sale. They don't get paid until the house closes so tell your guy to earn his ransom. I wouldn't fix shit, worst case scenario if you need to close give a small reduction and have your real estate agent give a reach around. There isn't a house in America that doesn't have a bunch of things not up to code if you look close enough.

[mcsquared]

Tell them you will either 1) remove the cabinets surrounding the stove 2) give them a small token credit of a few hundred bucks or 3) cancel the deal and find a new buyer. The agents will put their heads together and make it happen if they want to get paid.

[that dude who did that thing]

Tell buyer you wkill drop the stove an inch (via the adjustable legs) take $500 off the sale price, and assign to them your rights against the builder. Anything other than that is just fucking stupid. These buyers are looking to negotiate, not looking for an excuse to walk away. Man up and close the deal.

[old goat]

Around here lenders are getting very picky. The bank and the insurance company will both see that inspection report and most likely will not lend or insure on the house, regardless of what the buyers agree to.

[mcsquared]

Around here lenders are getting very picky. The bank and the insurance company will both see that inspection report and most likely will not lend or insure on the house, regardless of what the buyers agree to.

Never once have I showed the bank or the insurance company the inspection report or had them ask for it. In fact I never even get inspections anymore since they are always useless.