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Thread: Competence
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11-23-2014, 06:29 AM #26
Only took 25 posts for fun...
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11-23-2014, 08:52 AM #27
Competence
I recently had this moment myself. I started looking back at a few key instances of ignorant non-decision, where I unknowingly assumed risk without any amount of deliberation. Now, much more risk aware and acting with a beginners mindset, I've become sensitive to my own incompetency --- I'm at a point where I'm debating if I can ever gain enough competence (through practice and education) to actually enjoy the type of skiing experience I want.
The lack of negative feedback and perpetual positive reinforcement, as Lee noted above from Tremper, makes me question if these proposed 5 characteristics of competency are either a) achievable or b) measurable.
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11-23-2014, 08:56 AM #28Registered User
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In almost every tragedy or near miss, the familiar refrain is "what the fuck were they thinking". Competence in the mountains comes from being fully engaged in the multiplicity of variables. The right way to do it is known (or knowable), but the challenge (and the reward) is getting out of one's irrelevant obsessions, and into the moment.
#7. Maintains a continual detached awareness of interior thoughts, and maintains full engagement with the process.
I maintain that reading Krishnamurti is as instructive as Bruce Tremper.Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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11-23-2014, 09:06 AM #29
When I included "knows your limitations" I was thinking only of the physical side.
That said, understanding your mental limitations - the mental shortcuts, how you lose situational awareness, etc. - is just as important. Buddhists talk about "mindful awareness" - the ability to step outside of yourself and rationally analyze your own thinking/emotions - as a key to happiness.
So, proposing another formal competency trait that y'all have been talking about
7. Practices Mindful Awareness in the field
Edit to add - Koot beat me to it.
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11-24-2014, 06:02 AM #30
cookie monster threads are always good threads
Originally Posted by blurred
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11-24-2014, 10:51 AM #31
Educate yourself
make good decisions
make good decisions
make good decisions
I could go on and on about what not to do but that doesn't sell well. We've all done some dumb shit whether we admit it or not. I've been using very similar math as LL for years. I think it helps drive home exactly how good we have to be about making good decisions.
How many people do you know that have quite a bit of education yet constantly spew shit like, "It feels stable" or some other shit? How many people do you know that are oblivious to visual clues, dig no hand pits? How many people do you know that don't set good safe zone, don't watch their partners, or are constantly having gear issues? These people can't make good decisions.
This is the enemy. People want to make it about L2, airbags, strategic digging, wiz bag beacons, ALPTRUTHs and such. That's nice.
Make good decisions.
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11-24-2014, 05:32 PM #32skin track terrorist
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What is the definition of a "good decision?" Is it cause and effect that produces a positive result? cause and effect that produces no result?
long live the jahrator
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11-24-2014, 05:37 PM #33Hugh Conway Guest
apparently "digging hand pits" all the time is a good decision. this seems at the granularity where different schools have different thoughts < shrug >
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11-24-2014, 05:45 PM #34
In general I prefer lots of information from frequent hand pits/pole stabs coupled with professional reports to spending extended time digging a full pit.
I will take a stab at some one else's thoughts: making good decisions means being conscious of the information you are using to make your decision-what information you have and what information you lack. Your decision reflects how you view that information and being able to support that decision with the information.
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11-24-2014, 06:00 PM #35
If I hear someone say "it should be ok". What I really heard was "I want it to be ok". I then ask them to list all the reasons they can think of why it might not be ok, and all the reasons that are going in their favor. Many can not list even 2.
I often think that "making good decisions" reflects more on the process of making that decision than the outcome, so long as the outcome is right much more often than wrong, of course. And when you are wrong, the severity doesn't take you out of the game for good, or damage your emotional ability to engage in future risk decisions productively. Because, over time you ARE going to be wrong, that is ok, so long as you admit that and have a process of making decisions which accounts for that fallibility.
Skier A triggers an avalanche after applying a prudent and consistent process of data gathering and decision making. Considering terrain, weather, snowpack, people in the group, motivations, commitment and exposure, severity of being wrong etc.
Skier B triggers an avalanche after saying "I think it will be ok".
Both got it wrong. Skier A attempted to make a good decision and was wrong. Skier B made no decision at all, he just hoped.
Applying a decision making process and getting it wrong provides the opportunity to learn and get it right[er] next time. Hoping it will be ok doesn't support future improvements. Good decision making processes support future better decision making processes.
Ask most professional speculators. Good decision making is as much about the process as it is about the outcome (unless you end up dead... ?).Life is not lift served.
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11-24-2014, 06:33 PM #36Registered User
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I just attended a presentation by Greg Hill, mostly an examination of his experiences avoiding the disaster on Manaslu, then getting avalanched on his first run in Pakistan. Lot's of thought provoking aspects, but the biggest take home was the necessity of cultivating an awareness of the ways in which each of us circumvent whatever "rules" we use to stay safe in the mountains, and developing strategies for countering these self-destructive impulses. Know thyself.
Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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11-24-2014, 06:46 PM #37
Good one. Once moving on a slope, I sometimes rush subsequent downslope decisions under the excuse that I like to keep moving in the mountains. I'm a believer in maintaining momentum once you start. Keep moving. That commitment to momentum is probably sometimes circumventing whatever "rules" I use to stay safe in the mountains.
Life is not lift served.
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12-28-2014, 08:20 PM #38
Lots of great posts in this thread. Thanks.
Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season
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12-28-2014, 08:23 PM #39salmon powder
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a really nice vape and a willingness to die pursuing passion
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12-29-2014, 08:45 PM #40
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12-29-2014, 08:59 PM #41spook Guest
I think understands/internalizes/feels is better than displays. nitpicky probably but going through the motions because that's the process you learned doesn't seem quite the same as being 100% in the moment diligently comprehending the environment and your place in it while you go through the process
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12-29-2014, 09:08 PM #42spook Guest
looks like some others already had the same idea. also, having not done it in a BC snow sense, does trip planning not involve possible alternatives ahead of time so that a decisionmaking process has already taken place with regard to certain variables? if the problem Is goal-oriented people shouldn't trip planning involve alternatives to diffuse that? instead of saying "we only skied low angle pow" as a lesser say at the beginning that we're going in this area and going to have the best safest trip given the conditions rather than "we're going to try to climb such and such." also semanticky but a mindset. I used to be hyper goal oriented. now I have become much more about gratefully receiving what is safely presented.
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12-30-2014, 03:11 AM #43
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12-31-2014, 09:10 AM #44Registered User
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The ability to change behavior in the wake of a mistake is also important imo. It's interesting how that sorts, and how many people refuse to do this. For slides, I'm amazed how many people after an incident spend a lot of time talking about how experienced and careful they all were, and that it "just happened" after all precautions were taken...so they spend a couple weeks wigged out, then often do nothing to change their behavior. Only a minority seem able to say, Gee, we screwed up, here's what we will do differently for the future. For instance, will they always utilize ALP TRUTH or a similar tool? Very often people may even be aware of it, but the answer will be "sometimes, depending on the day and who I'm with," i.e. the tool becomes useless because they don't systematically apply it.
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12-31-2014, 07:37 PM #45
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01-21-2015, 08:54 AM #46"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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