Buying a puffy...want the collective's opinion first

[Lindahl]

Planning on this being in my pack for backcountry(reason I wanted to know about wet down performance). As far as temps go this will be my midlayer under my uninsulated shell for frigid and if its cold but nice out I would wear it for resort laps as an outer. But no trees if durability is an issue. I would prefer a durable fabric though. Not much of a city slicker haha.

Is it in your pack for emergency reasons? If so, you're talking about two different jackets. A jacket that is warm enough for emergencies is too hot for other applications. I skip the emergency puffy and carry a blizzard bag instead (on occasion) - equivalent of a 30 degree sleeping bag, but smaller, lighter, and a full waterproof shelter.

I don't really stop much to rest. i tend to eat and drink a little here and there - maybe a few minutes at most - so a thin synthetic like the nano puff works for me. I even wear it on the uphill when I break treeline in cold windy temperatures. Sometimes I wear it on the down, but going down is so quick, aerobic, and you quickly drop altitude (warmer), I usually don't bother unless its cold enough on the up that I have it on, already.

If you're more of a stop and go, and spend a LOT of time dicking around, say 20-30min at a time, a down jacket with 4+ ounces of down is a better choice. I tour with all sorts of people, and no one does this - so think real hard about if this is the way you actually tour, before spending the coin.

Down or synthetic as a midlayer never really makes sense to me. Midlayers are a pain in the ass to deal with. For touring, the right base layer paired with a softshell works way better. I usually start with the softshell on, semi-cold, then shed the softshell once I warm up, then put it back on once I hit treeline. If it gets really nasty above treeline, or on colder days on the downhill, the light synthetic puffy goes on top.

If you want something for frigid days on the lifts, an insulated hardshell works better - pitzips and front zippers bypassing all insulation does wonders. No layers to mess with.

[SmokinRox]

2 words. Columbia Bugaboo

Your welcome

[XXX-er]

the lift is a totally different game and you can wear almost anything, I wear some kind of gortex pants and my lift riding insulated gortex coat is 15yrs old

[deliberate]

So, which brand has long sleeves? Mountain hardware medium fits my chest, but the sleeves end before my watch. Patagonia medium has long enough sleeves, but the medium size is for fat people.

[auvgeek]

Western Mountaineering Flash if you want a lot of puff (easily twice the loft of a Montbell) for minimal weight.

Feathered Friends Helios if you want an additional 4 oz of down, & to look like a toasty warm Michelin Man. (I never wear it, just keep it in my pack for the unexpected overnighter.)

Which Montbell are you talking about? FWIW, I own the FF Hooded Helios, too. It would be awesome if it was box construction.

If you're more of a stop and go, and spend a LOT of time dicking around, say 20-30min at a time, a down jacket with 4+ ounces of down is a better choice. I tour with all sorts of people, and no one does this - so think real hard about if this is the way you actually tour, before spending the coin.

Generally, I agree with your post. But a major exception is summiting a bit too early in the day and having to wait up high for things to soften up. In those cases, a down jacket with 4+ oz of fill is pretty clutch.

I hadn't heard of a Blizzard bag, but thanks for the tip. Seems like an interesting solution.

[old goat]

I have a nano puff--it's what the store had--but my friend with 40 packs (point being he's into gear) says Montbell synthetic is best synthetic puffy. They have a jacket, a hoody, and a model with stretchy side panels. http://www.montbell.us/products/disp...01182&gen_cd=1

[SB]

You will need synthetic but if itsin the budget having both is ideal.

I have a ltwt down shirt/sweater and a synthetic hoody.

[Lindahl]

Generally, I agree with your post. But a major exception is summiting a bit too early in the day and having to wait up high for things to soften up. In those cases, a down jacket with 4+ oz of fill is pretty clutch.

I can definitely see that being an issue. I generally avoid summiting early by adjusting my pace. Works better if you climb what you ski though. If I still need to wait, I hunker down below the summit or do jumping jacks (its been a while since I had to do those). Usually if its warm enough for spring corn, the synthetic puffy is warm enough to hang out in, at least out here in CO.

[raueda1]

dude thats why Tyvek tape was invented !

Spinnaker sail tape FTW. Comes in designer colors too. Mix-n'-match to make your statement.

[creaky fossil]

clearly whatever you would have bought independent of this thread, that jacket/coat would have been inadequate.

you could have bought a coat without consulting TGR, couldn't you?

Dear TGR:

My current toothbrush is looking mangled. What's the hottest toothbrush maggots use right now? Not in 2013, not in 2007, but right now?

[El Chupacabra]

To the OP - buy whatever is on sale at REI outlet or Sierra Trading Post.

Dear TGR:

My current toothbrush is looking mangled. What's the hottest toothbrush maggots use right now? Not in 2013, not in 2007, but right now?

Make sure it's Enduro.

Now, on to the next sartorial significance : what color socks should I wear today?

[pfluffenmeister]

Spinnaker sail tape FTW. Comes in designer colors too. Mix-n'-match to make your statement.

fuck yes!

[Peruvian]

When I lived in Seattle the gear tech was quite a bit less. However I would never consider down or a soft shell for skiing in PNW.

[jesski]

But a major exception is summiting a bit too early in the day and having to wait up high for things to soften up. In those cases, a down jacket with 4+ oz of fill is pretty clutch.

I can definitely see that being an issue. I generally avoid summiting early by adjusting my pace. Works better if you climb what you ski though. If I still need to wait, I hunker down below the summit or do jumping jacks (its been a while since I had to do those). Usually if its warm enough for spring corn, the synthetic puffy is warm enough to hang out in, at least out here in CO.

I think you guys are really just talking about a very different application. The PNW/ volcano situation is just so different from climbing something in CO.

Rainier is a great example. A lot of the lines I find compelling are SO much safer to climb earlier in the day. It's one thing to ski under a serac at 2 pm, it's another to swing tools there. On routes like that, climbing what you ski further necessitates this dichotomy in conditions. While "adjusting pace" may be a good strategy for most CO peaks where you're starting at 9-11k and summiting around 14k with minimal real ice/rockfall hazard, PNW volcanoes, which are generally composed of choosy, volcanic rock glued together by moving ice formations, can be a very different story.

I think another 20 oz in your pack– in order to hang out and have a nice summit party in your puffy in the sunshine–are totally worth it. You don't have to be doing something super rad to enjoy said luxury. If you're walking with your kid nephew up Mt. Adams's south climb route, it's still nice to teach him to crampon to the false summit while things are relatively firm, hang out in the sun, and then ski the SW chutes (or even ski that same south climb route, for purists like Lindahl who look down upon the fat-boy drop) whislt sliding conditions are optimal. Really, who likes to ski down early when there's perfect corn to be had later in the day? Finally, even if you way underestimate your pace, and climb stupid-super-fast, the midday nap in the sun at altitude cannot be rated highly enough.

People who recreate in different climates just need different gear, IMO. I almost never use a soft-shell for touring in the PNW, but I wouldn't visit the Wasatch without one, for example, nor would I head to AB or the Canadian Rockies in winter with a synthetic puffy. "Cold" winter touring in the PNW just isn't as cold or dry as a "cold" day of winter touring in CO.... and corn skiing in CO just isn't the same as corn skiing along the ring of fire.

[Buster Highmen]

When I lived in Seattle the gear tech was quite a bit less. However I would never consider down or a soft shell for skiing in PNW.

The OP is in Grandview near Yakima/Tricities...different climate than the Puget Sound.
That said, I rarely wear down even in CO or ut and rely INSTEAD on the merino baselayer and a good shell.

[PNWbrit]

For synthetic, the Nano Puff works. I'm partial to the Rab Xenon, personally, but they're pretty similar.

For down, I don't know of any jackets featuring box construction and hydrophobic down that weigh in around 20 oz. To me, this would be the ideal winter-touring "emergency" jacket for the PNW. It wouldn't replace a synthetic like the above, but it would be ALOT warmer at a reasonable weight. For regular down jackets at about 20 oz, I'd consider the recently discontinued OR Maestro or the Montbell Frost Line. I've been toying with the idea of picking up a Montbell Mirage for fast and light pursuits during good weather windows with the idea that I could wear it under a shell if the weather turned nasty out. Haven't bit the bullet yet, but just thought I'd throw it out there. It's nice to have such a light option available with box construction.

A set up that's been working really well for me the past couple of seasons during most anything other than worst of PNWet weather is the First Ascent BC MicroTherm. 800 fill down, waterproof 20K/20K, 20ish ounces, dumps heat through huge front mesh pockets. Combined with a wind shirt style soft shell like an OR ferrosi over a very thin base layer for the ups.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Your choice but to me these seem like just about the same jacket.

http://www.backcountry.com/patagonia...AT3379-MALGN-S

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/82289...ackaway-jacket

[XXX-er]

To the OP - buy whatever is on sale at REI outlet or Sierra Trading Post.

this ^^ don't overthink it just look for something that is 1/2 price

[Foggy_Goggles]

You know, I really am a Patagonia fan. I'm willing to pay for quality when it equates to value. That said, I'm really put off by $700 ski coats. I'm sure it's rad but I don't see the value.

It seems like companies like LL Bean and Cabelas provide much better value with equal if not better customer service.

I guess the industry has just done a really good job at making consumers drink the sauce. Even at my honky tonk resort plenty of people are walking around with $2K in outerwear on. If your rolling around in a $60K SUV it probably is no big deal.

[TahoeJ]

^^ Completely agree about this trend of $600 - $700 ski jackets. Give me a break. Flylow makes just as good or better shells for about 40% less.

Having said that...

+1 for the Patagucci Nano. It's amazingly warm for how thin and light it is.

[creaky fossil]

Now, on to the next sartorial significance : what color socks should I wear today?

be sure to go barefoot until the collective has spoken, the shame could be unbearable

[jmedslc]

If you're going to use it for climbing at all, consider trying to find something with stretchy face fabric. The first time I wore my Nano Puff in Bishop, I ripped a 1.5"x1.5" L-shaped hole in a sleeve. My brother did the same thing on a different trip with a brand new Arcteryx Atom LT. You can patch that stuff fine with repair tape (I got a roll of some special crap at REI), but something to be aware of.

Same here. I have the ultralight patagucci sweater and sat on a metal chair last night. This morning i found down all over and 2 small rips. Super sensitive stuff!!

[GeezerSteve]

Who is talking about a $700 coat? Lightweight synthetic puffs cost $200 or less, and frequently go on sale. I paid $125 or less for my Patti nano puff and for my nano puff hoody. My (much heavier) First Ascent by Eddie Bauer cost $40 end-of-season sale. Down sweaters also often go on sale.

For the kind of thinner pieces you mention then the benefits of down are less of an advantage over synthetics than when looking at a more full on puffy.

QFT

Best scenario: Get both a synthetic puff (on sale) and a down sweater (on sale) and experiment in different conditions. You will quickly learn which one works best for X, Y and Z set of conditions. It aint rocket science.

Try before you buy. Fit is important. Arm holes that are too large or too small suck. Too baggy = cold. Too tight = cold.

Hood vs. hoodless is an important factor, surprised it has not been discussed in this thread. IMO, if you are going to get only one puff, get a lightweight synthetic hoody puff.

General rule: Synthetic puff for touring at all temps. Exception = down at breaks is okay on dry cold tours with extended stops for somebody who sweats very little or who employs careful use of a VB or semi-VB to prevent down from getting wet from the inside. If you don't have a VB or semi-VB, wear the down puff over your shell at breaks -- this is a good introduction to how a semi-VB under down works. But, again, synthetic puff is better for nearly all touring.

The alleged "waterproof" down has not been around long enough to really know its limitations after a season or two or three of use.

A full-blown down coat (vs. down sweater) is overkill for 99% of touring, but are the way to go for winter camps, huts, emergency bivis and hanging out post-ski on cold days.

[PNWbrit]

sat on a metal chair last night.

What brand of chair?

[shroom]

and to think some poor schmuck figured this out on his own way back when