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  1. #51
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    Aug 2006
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    anybody have experience using the dunlop graspic ds-3? they are relatively cheap ($71/each) on tire rack. i was planning for the general's ($89/each) on my van until i just looked online. i have general's for a subi and was happy last season. previously, used blizzak ws70's ($90/ea) on the van and was happy with those, too. tia.

  2. #52
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    ^ I agree with this. Winter tires are nice, but I got around just fine with 4WD + all terrain treads. Reasonably fresh all-seasons work fine too. But I live in Reno.

    This whole debate depends on where you live and drive -- i.e. how cold does it stay in winter, how much snow/ice do you get, how long does the snow/ice stay on the roads. IMHO if you live somewhere where the temp doesn't go above freezing for 4 months, and roads stay covered in snow for weeks at a time, then you should get winter tires. But if you live in SF Bay or Sacramento and drive up to ski twice a month, winter tires don't make much sense.
    Actualy up north where it gets really fucking cold go to any mall where you can see even the stupidest stupid person whom you can look at and decide you do not want to hangout with driving a sunfire with studded snows, cuz everybody up here knows they need real snow tires so they buy them usually with studs BUT snow at -40C is actualy so fucking abrasive that the traction is pretty good so everybody gets to work everyday IF they can get the car started

    OTOH the snow close to zero is the most slippery snow so that is where you need real snow tires, that stuff often falls in some big citys down at low elevation or close to the water like Vancover or Seattle where it doesn't snow much so people try to slide by(intentional pun) on all season or summer tires so it doesn't matter if you got studded Haks you are stuck behind dum cool people with summer tires which will be the lowest common denominator in that once or twice a winter snow storm ... call work and tell them you will be tele computing from home
    Last edited by XXX-er; 11-10-2014 at 07:29 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #53
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    Nov 2011
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    studless snow tire life expectancy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggydude View Post
    Just a fad?
    Ya, I called it for side cut nearly 20 years ago. After the 12M powder carving radius bullshit everyone wants less and less side cut. Glad the side cut fad is going away.

  4. #54
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    Dec 2003
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    Nhampshire
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    Blizzak's are really soft, in my experience. Trying the General Altimax's this year. Michelins are great, but like all Michelins are spendy. Dunlops do well all around. Nokians are the shit. Don't buy pirelli's, they suck.

  5. #55
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    Apr 2014
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    Well got the blizzaks installed today on the f150. Pretty nuts how much more grip they have than the old wranglers I had on there. Put it in 2wd and it greatly outperformed the old ones even in 4wd-
    There isn't even a comparison, in 2wd I'd say these still beat the wranglers even when they were new and I had 300 lbs in the bed. Now I guess we'll just see how long they last. With the weight in the bed and 4wd I think blizzaks must be hard to beat, though I've never run studs.

    That's all not to say that the truck wasnt fine with the wranglers, just not confidence inspiring per say, and not grippy by any means.

  6. #56
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    Mar 2008
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=QsxV49pmnL8

    you don't want to end up in this^^ situation
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #57
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    Jun 2014
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    694
    In warm weather, snow tires borders on being dangerous. They will lose directional stability, have poor handling and increased stopping distance. If they don't have these traits, they are likely to have bad performance in freezing conditions. If they had good warm weather performance, they would have been labeled all season tires.

    But the driver is pretty much always the week link.

  8. #58
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    May 2002
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    Beautiful BC
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    I got 6.5 seasons with my Dodge Caravan and Michelin X-Ice going back and forth to Whistler. I have the snow tires on from November to April and probably drive 10,000km a season. At that point they started spinning up Glacier Drive even through there was lots of tread left. Now I'm on my second set of X-Ice2. The Winter tires are vastly better in wet cold Vancouver weather too. They're not just for snow.
    If you have a problem & think that someone else is going to solve it for you then you have two problems.

  9. #59
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    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Dog View Post
    They're not just for snow.
    True! As long as it's cold, it's generally what you want.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Dog View Post
    I got 6.5 seasons with my Dodge Caravan and Michelin X-Ice going back and forth to Whistler. I have the snow tires on from November to April and probably drive 10,000km a season. At that point they started spinning up Glacier Drive even through there was lots of tread left. Now I'm on my second set of X-Ice2. The Winter tires are vastly better in wet cold Vancouver weather too. They're not just for snow.
    Been a road warrior in the Koots/ Okanagan/ PG/ all over and IME Vancover has THE worst winter driving conditions in BC

    Yeah they are not a good as summer tires on bare pavement but one can just slow down when they have winter tires on the vehical
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #61
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    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Yeah they are not a good as summer tires on bare pavement but one can just slow down when they have winter tires on the vehical
    Or just swap for summer tires? Takes a whole 30 minutes?

  12. #62
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    if you wana be that anal you could write a data base to calculate the time you would save/waste/savings in rubber by slowing down a little vs changing tires (and back) everytime it snows ?

    you sound like my last lawyer he was always getting himself in shit
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #63
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    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    to calculate the time you would save/waste/savings in rubber

    The savings are not the motivating factor for me. I go to work every day. I can afford tires. I run ultra high performance tires in the summer. The grip and improved handling is astonishing! I can recommend Michelin Pilot SuperSport if you have a car with enjoyable characteristics.

  14. #64
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    Nov 2011
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    Here's an INDEPENDENT test from University of Fairbanks, Alaska. I found it while researching studs. They were using blizzaks for winter wires. The results are almost sad. I realize the tests are from 1994 and winter tires improved since then, but it's fair to assume the all seasons improved too.





  15. #65
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    those are 10yr old results also that study doesn't say which studded snow tire, can't you google something more scandahovian ?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLarger View Post
    The savings are not the motivating factor for me. I go to work every day. I can afford tires. I run ultra high performance tires in the summer. The grip and improved handling is astonishing! I can recommend Michelin Pilot SuperSport if you have a car with enjoyable characteristics.
    My lawyer was cheap and/or there was probably a little swapping the snow tires for the astonishing high performance summer tires on his car with enjoyable characteristics but when he got caught in a snow storm with the studded winter tires at the top of the hill in his garage instead of on his car ... same end result
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    those are 10yr old results
    It all makes sense now... you are one of those that actually caught the millennium bug! 😜

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    those are 10yr old results also that study doesn't say which studded snow tire, can't you google something more scandahovian ?
    I found the all season vs winter comparison more interesting. Everyone seems to gargle tirerack's koolaid.

  18. #68
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    All companies worldwide were so ready so hyper vigelant that there was no millenium bug per se
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #69
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    10 years old hard to say... nor do they qualify what all seasons? But people would not continue buying winter tires if they didn't offer a performance advantage in the winter, myself included. No comparison IMO between blizzaks and wrangler A/T on my truck.

    Of course I also had Michelin all seasons I bought last black Friday (latitude comfort something or another - premium tire) on our midsize suv and I was very suprised by how those handled ice, fantastic and much better than the last set of all seasons on that.

  20. #70
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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggydude View Post
    10 years old hard to say... nor do they qualify what all seasons? But people would not continue buying winter tires if they didn't offer a performance advantage in the winter, myself included. No comparison IMO between blizzaks and wrangler A/T on my truck.

    Of course I also had Michelin all seasons I bought last black Friday (latitude comfort something or another - premium tire) on our midsize suv and I was very suprised by how those handled ice, fantastic and much better than the last set of all seasons on that.
    Here's the whole document https://dec.alaska.gov/eh/docs/lab/d...nics/551.1.pdf

    M+S all seasons. Wranglers are a terrible choice for snow. Like I said, I believe some all seasons are a lot closer to winter tires than others. My goodyear assurance tripletred for example were awesome.

  21. #71
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    Dec 2002
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    oregon
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    The follow up study from 1995 shows studless Blizzak's beating studs and studs or studless being better than all seasons.

    WASHHDOT in 2002 concluded (after looking at multiple studies, including the Lu study from 1995 and 1994):

    Studded tires produce their best traction on snow or ice near the freezing mark
    and lose proportionately more of their tractive ability at lower temperatures
    than do studless or all-season tires.
    The traction of studded tires is slightly superior to studless tires only under an
    ever-narrowing set of circumstances. With less aggressive (lightweight) studs
    being mandated, and with the advent of the new “studless” tire, such as the
    Blizzak, since the early 1990s, the traction benefit for studded tires is
    primarily evident on clear ice near the freezing mark, a condition whose
    occurrence is limited. For the majority of test results reviewed for snow, and
    for ice at lower temperatures, studded tires performed as well as or worse than
    the Blizzak tire. For those conditions in which studded tires provided better
    traction than studless tires, the increment usually was small.
    I run Michelin x-ice3's on an outback and have yet to find a scenario where I am wishing I had studs. Even commuting weekly over Santiam Pass last winter via tombstone pass. Every year I drag out putting on the snows and end up driving in snow/ice with the all seasons. It's noticeable and if you live in the mountains cheap insurance to buy snow tires, even if they are the cheapest out there.

    I've also yet to find a warmish temp scenario where the snows were not competent. Considering running them through the summer this year, but we will see.
    "These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"

  22. #72
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    Nov 2011
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    Oh out of curiosity I looked at utah rules for some roads

    Motorists traveling on the highways listed below between October 1 and April 30 are required to have:

    Steel link chains, or
    Mounted snow tires (tires with a M/S rating, with or without studs,), or
    Elastomeric tire chains designed for use with radial tires.
    Four-wheel drive vehicles are required to have a minimum of two mounted snow tires.
    Do they really let any m/s tire go, no winter snowflake requirement?

    Also, do they understand quattrto = four wheel drive?

  23. #73
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    Mar 2009
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    3,269
    I wouldn't put 100% faith on a dot study aboit stud vs studless. In 30 years of driving on snow/slush/ice nothing beats awd with studs. There might be isolated cases where the studless performs better but on winter roads with snow hands down studs. I have run studless exclusively for 10 plus years because the majority of my winter miles at this point in my life is bare pavement. However if my life changed and I found myself skiing 40 plus days a season like the old days studs only. Keep I'm mind most traction tests are done on flat dry ice conditions. The biggest problem for most people is when you have to start from a stop on a incline or stopping on roads between 34-25 degrees with ice/slush/snow. If the temp gets much lower than 20 roads are much more predictable. Just remember most dot's hate studs for the amount of road damage it causes. Studs suck for highway driving but kills it o smowy and icy roads.

  24. #74
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    those are 10yr old results...
    Make that 20 year old results. While we're at it, let's look at ski comparisons from 1994. I'm sure tire technology has come a LONG way in 2 full decades.

    I have all-seasons on my ride right now and let me tell you, there is absolutely no comparison. They are "M+S" rated. HA! What a joke. Getting the snows installed first thing tomorrow morning. Yes, they stop far shorter, and turning inspires confidence. Been getting tired of sliding around these past couple of weeks, so can't wait to have winter rubber again.

  25. #75
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    Nov 2011
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    So were stuck between tests run by manufacturers, sellers and DOT. The link I posted is from a university, not that they are impartial.

    I don't loose anything running two sets. I get to run summer tires that would perform horribly in the winter and I get the best in the winter. I just hate winter tire zealots that want mandatory winter tires.

    And again AustinFromSA, it not like all seasons stagnated for the past 20 years.

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