Cheap -10 / -20 Bag?

[nickwm21]

I am looking for a cheaper -10/-20 sleeping bag. This would be for car camping outside of mammoth during the winter. Nights can get down to -10 in the high desert there. The last two winters I have been double bagging with a TNF 20deg synthetic mummy and a cheap coleman/walmart rectangular bag and have been uncomfortable a few nights.

If I was to do some real winter mountaineering, I would be looking at the $800 down bags. Just looking at a recco for a cheap synthetic bag that will be true to its temp rating. Hopefully -20 under $200.

This is the only bag I have found in the price range: http://www.backcountry.com/the-north...B-RHUOR-REGZIP

Thanks - N

[XavierD]

Cheap = uncomfortable.

This ain't some place you want to skimp out.

The reason you are uncomfortable is because your body is keeping you awake so you don't die or loose a limb.

From someone who has been 'cold' before.

[skimaxpower]

I'd browse forums and craigslist during hunting season.

[El Chupacabra]

I can't remember the model of the one I have, but I have a Kelty -10 or -20 synthetic bag for car camping in cold weather. It's bulky, kinda heavy, and doesn't pack down very small, but it's warm.

Something like this, but mine's probably 10 years old:
http://www.kelty.com/p-585-mistral-2...ping-bags-pads

[zombinate]

That Elkhorn seems like a fine option, though an older polyfill which is less conforming, so it take the bag a bit more time to warm up than some of the newer options.
REI's pre-holiday sale starts next weekend (14th). Pretty sure there is a 20% coupon thing with that sale. Would bring some $300 bags into the $240 range.

[swerve]

Check ebay. Ive picked up two western mountaineering bags for cheapish that had been lightly used. I think the -20 bag was about $450. I only use it a couple nights a year but when you need it its nice to be warm and not have to play with layering to get comfortable.

[cat in january]

Just more food for thought: you can extend a bag by about 10 degrees with a vapor barrier liner and then maybe another 5 degrees with a bivy sack. A SOL bivy sack could give you another 5 degrees. The selection in bags seems a lot larger at 0 degrees and this might get you through that rare night. Plus it gives you some more flexibility.

[adrenalated]

I can't remember the model of the one I have, but I have a Kelty -10 or -20 synthetic bag for car camping in cold weather. It's bulky, kinda heavy, and doesn't pack down very small, but it's warm.

Something like this, but mine's probably 10 years old:
http://www.kelty.com/p-585-mistral-2...ping-bags-pads

I have a newer Kelty Mistral -20.

It is nowhere near a true -20 bag.

My high end 0 degree MHW bag is warmer, mostly due to better baffles at the zipper and around the neck, but I think it flat out has more loft too.

I use the Mistral all the time for car camping, but when it's actually colder than +10 or 15 degrees, it's not warm enough.

[Bobcat Sig]

Have you thought about tossing on a down comforter and/or a wool army blanket?

[whitekingsalmon]

Rei made a down bag that was minus 20 a few years back that I bought for 450 ish.,.. Worked great on the coldest days I've had on Aconcagua.

[MakersTeleMark]

Try two lower rated bags nested.

[XXX-er]

look at MEC bags

[coldfeet]

How insulating is your pad (what's the R value)?

I think a down bag - doesn't have to be one of the most expensive - and comforter or some good blankets would be warmer than two cheapish synthetic bags, but you also need to start with a warm pad.

[rob stokes]

look at MEC bags

2nd. My gf had an awesome MEC bag, think its called the Merlin. Its cheep, but still lightweight with good quality down. Only rated to about freezing but they also do a warmer one. Having said that she has snow-holed and snow camped 10+ nights in hers without too much trouble.

[MakersTeleMark]

^^^ Frigid magician, is she?

[Meadow Skipper]

How insulating is your pad (what's the R value)?

Don't overlook this. The best bag in the world isn't worth shit if you aren't well-insulated from below.

[bodywhomper]

Water bottle with hot water inside the bag is a good way to start with a warm bag for the night.

[MakersTeleMark]

Water bottle with hot water inside the bag is a good way to start with a warm bag for the night.

And make you have to get up and pee.

[bodywhomper]

Ya don't drink it.... ^^^^

[sal the salmon]

until that one time that you spill a water bottle into your bag the 2nd night of a 4 day trip.

instead, pre warm you body before you enter your bag. take a quick lap on foot through the snow after getting everything in camp squared away for the night. entering your bag with your body producing heat will be far more effective and safer then a hot water bottle.

in addition, there is a magic drink for pre bed.

hot coco with a chunk of butter. This lets your body burn the sugars for the first 4 hours of the night and the fats the last 4. you want your body to be producing your heat, and your sleeping bag to stop it from escaping.

also, extra insulation under.... use a closed cell foam as a base, theremarest over the top of that, and place items like your pack under your feet if you dont use full length pads.

[sal the salmon]

drgus

[hose-man]

Don't overlook this. The best bag in the world isn't worth shit if you aren't well-insulated from below.

Your current set up doesn't sound terrible. I'd look to improve your pad situation and maybe add a bivvy over it all. On snow I run a closed cell foam on the bottom, then two thema-rest pads. I also wear booties and throw somthing into the bottom of my bag to prop my feet on. I always seem to get cold feet from conductive heat loss.

I've tried the hot water bottle heat concept a few times with poor results. I ended up too warm briefly, sweaty, then cold.

[jesski]

Regarding a pad, don't overlook the possibility of purchasing a memory-foam-like substance by the yard from a fabric store such as JoAnn Crafts or the like, and then trimming to fit into the back if your rig--very insulating for the price, cheap, and you can get them in varying thicknesses. Sounds a little ghetto, but it works, so who cares, right?

Secondly, do not underestimate the power of a quicky sponge bath in the bar bathroom, hot shower at employee dorms, or even jetboil-powered hot water face rubdown in making you feel warm and toasty all night. Residual salt & stuff from sweating all day makes sleeping less toasty somehow, IMO.

Also, hot chocolate is a diuretic (not to mention full of sugar and chocolate/ caffeine which may or may not be enough to keep you awake, YMMV) so if you are weak of bladder, you might consider a shot of olive oil instead of the hot chocolate/ butter combo (better for you, too, and the fat will metabolize more quickly.) Personally, I'm a fan of having the tooth brush accessible from inside my sleeping bag for this reason especially.

Finally, what is preventing you/ why wouldn't you go with wool blankets, down comforter(s), etc? When I lived in a ski town without much heat except a wood stove 3 rooms away, I did the 30 degree bag with blankets on top thing; it worked pretty well.

Regarding hot water bottle, put it in long before you climb in and let it do its magic, then take it out upon entry and toss it into either (a) your ski boot liners if they aren't heat moldable, to help them dry out overnight and keep the heat from contacting your skin directly (helps to have two smaller water bottles for this), or (b) transfer water to an empty thermos so you have hot water for tea, coffee, or hot chocolate when you wake up to the cat drivers turning in and the bombs dropping on a pow day

And now I want to go ski-parking-lot camping...

[nickwm21]

Thanks all for the help.

I bought a 6deg sierra designs down bag for super cheap on SAC. It is not what I was looking for but it should improve the situation a bit.

For a pad I use a combo of an OG self inflating thermarest and a cheap foam pad. I don't think I have issues with the pad.

[El Chupacabra]

Regarding a pad, don't overlook the possibility of purchasing a memory-foam-like substance by the yard from a fabric store such as JoAnn Crafts or the like...

Lots of good ideas from jesski, but I would avoid real memory foam if you're going to be camping in very cold weather -- it's hard until it warms up a bit.

Another tip I've used with some success -- if you have space to do so without burning yourself down or depleting all your oxygen, leave a candle burning all night while you sleep. It adds a little warmth, and seems to reduce the amount of moisture condensation, which also makes it feel a little warmer inside the tent/ car/ whatever. An old style candle lantern worked well for me.