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  1. #26
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    Apr 2005
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    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    20 years???? so were you secretly sneakin into the soli shop tween luggage shlepin to mount skis?
    or what shop did you work at during your 2 seasons in the wasatch?
    nice try posuer mc vivid imagination bro
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    895
    Those were the 2 seasons since 1989 that I wasn't drilling skis at least part time. So I been drilling looooong before you ever left Michigan to become a wasatch gnarcore ski bum. Thanx for caring. Oh and uh, nice thread cunting, big guy.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    T-town, CO. USA
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    2,098
    Quote Originally Posted by thewon View Post
    Have you had a failure caused by some plastic left in a hole? 20+ years of mounting skis in a shop setting and I sure haven't. No epoxy used either unless it was a foam core ski. Montana mounting glue is all.
    ^^^ I couldn't have said it better myself. ^^^
    Leaving the remaining plastic material in the hole after drilling out a plug is sound advice. Not using epoxy is more good advice. And I am going into my 22nd straight ski season as a full time ski mounter myself.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  4. #29
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    ^^^ I couldn't have said it better myself. ^^^
    Leaving the remaining plastic material in the hole after drilling out a plug is sound advice. Not using epoxy is more good advice. And I am going into my 22nd straight ski season as a full time ski mounter myself.
    Just regular wood glue and the insert?

    I'm not questioning your experience, it's just that I haven't done that based on the assumption that the wood glue wouldn't hold the plug in because they are not threaded in.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    895
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Just regular wood glue and the insert?

    I'm not questioning your experience, it's just that I haven't done that based on the assumption that the wood glue wouldn't hold the plug in because they are not threaded in.
    wood glue isn't really for hold, it's more for sealing and keeping water out.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    WA
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    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Just regular wood glue and the insert?

    I'm not questioning your experience, it's just that I haven't done that based on the assumption that the wood glue wouldn't hold the plug in because they are not threaded in.
    Friction alone will hold in the plastic hole plug. The only purpose for glue in ANY ski mounting procedure is to keep water out. A standard binding mounting glue like roo glue or SVST mounting glue will work fine. This will make it easier to remove the plug in the future without damaging the threads you've cut into the wood - and thus easier to re-use the old holes and avoid swiss-cheesing your skis.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    895
    Thank you^^^^^^i meant to add that the plug alone will suffice. No glue.

  8. #33
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    Dec 2007
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    T-town, CO. USA
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    2,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Just regular wood glue and the insert?

    I'm not questioning your experience, it's just that I haven't done that based on the assumption that the wood glue wouldn't hold the plug in because they are not threaded in.
    No, not just regular wood glue. Roo-glue or other binding specific glues are much better. Glue/epoxy does nothing to hold plugs in. It's a pressure fit.
    I always use binding glue when plugging holes too. But only to seal out moisture.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    895
    Quote Originally Posted by tenB View Post
    Yes, I've personally seen two complete failures where plugs were not fully removed. One of them resulted in a salomon heel piece completely coming out of all five holes during a junior race. Does that qualify? Thanks for dropping years (minus a couple or so when questioned) about your shop experience. I've been mounting my own fucking bindings and others since the beginning of time bitch.
    only dropped years to let it be known that i've mounted a shit ton of skis (over 100 pair a season some years) over the years and have pretty much seen everything. no need for name calling. thanx for the feedback.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Driving2VT
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    4,582
    I have mounted a bunch of skis and finding this thread helpful. I appreciate the insight. Relax all. Just collectively dropping knowledge.
    Uno mas

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    I am aware the the glue is only to keep the water out and not a binding screw in... I just never thought the friction of the plug in the hole would be enough to hold it in.

    But now I know.

    So... update: I drilled out the toe holes on one ski, didn't remove any of the residual plastic from the plug, put some glue in there and all the screws went right into the old thread without any down pressure. In other words, the threads were mint. My theory is the threads of the screw will clean any residual plastic from the existing threads in the binding holes.

    This particular ski is a metal capped race room Dynastar Legend Pro Rider, so the holes drilled were 4.1mm instead of 3.6mm. The plugs went in easier in those holes then when I fill holes that were drilled 3.6, so there's still a chance 3.6 threads might be damaged, but I'm calling 4.1 completely safe to drill out and re-use... even after epoxying the plugs in.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
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    899
    Quote Originally Posted by skimaxpower View Post
    Holes can only be re-used so many times. (huh huh.) .
    How many times are we talking? I've got some skis that I might take the bindings on and off a few times this year. I'm not going with inserts because it's only going to be maybe 5 or 6 times this season, I think. Thoughts on that tech gurus? too lazy to search as we're kind of already talking about it right now.

  13. #38
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    Oct 2014
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    895
    Quote Originally Posted by Mex View Post
    How many times are we talking? I've got some skis that I might take the bindings on and off a few times this year. I'm not going with inserts because it's only going to be maybe 5 or 6 times this season, I think. Thoughts on that tech gurus? too lazy to search as we're kind of already talking about it right now.
    if the ski has metal in it, you should be able to carefully re-use the holes quite a few times. no metal, just wood? maybe re-use a coupla times. foam? one n done. imo.

    doing what you plan to do? inserts.

  14. #39
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    Dec 2009
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    WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mex View Post
    How many times are we talking?
    Generally, I would not re-use a binding hole more than about three times. But it depend on many factors. For your intended purpose, use inserts or risk failure.

  15. #40
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    Oct 2003
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    Calgary, Canada
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    Thanks mags.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    33,440
    Did they use wood glue to stick gun shot/mortar round punctured skin together in Viet Nam?

    I really love to see the long time tech geezers telling people wood glue will suffice when the world is changing over to more and more use of carbon fiber...That inapplicable and inappropriate advice given as it relates to carbon fiber rots holes and cores. Get off the wood glue and get a clue - that shit won't seal the wound in carbon fiber.

    Put a cured lump of the typical shop glue in a glass of water. Do the same with a cured lump of epoxy. Come back and take a look in six weeks. Tech rounds a 4.1 hole with his self proclaimed arm of steadfastedness on a freeball drilling, leaving the slightest space where loose fiberglass and carbon fibers hang together, without a tight hole wall contact . Get it wet and keep it wet and typical wood glue will soften and thin out, allowing water around the screw threads to creep and soak into the core. Those fibers won't stop the infiltration of water if the glue goes liquid.

    There's a lot of reasons to use epoxy. It will lock all those fibers together, creep into the wood and bond with it, make the hole completely water tight and leave a threaded hole when you back the screws out if you use the smaller bit, which will allow the wood and epoxy to set together and become the threads. Perfect for flying international with two pairs of skis and one set of bindings.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    895
    good words, splat.

    foam and carbon skis. epoxy for sure.

  18. #43
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    Nov 2011
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    2,835
    I continue to be amazed by the fear people have of working on skis. They are not some exotic beast that can only be tamed by silver ropes and golden carrots.

    First of all, read splat's message above about newer skis. Wood glue is the wrong product for carbon fiber and foam core skis. But also, stop worrying so much regardless of what typoe of ski you have.

    Let's start with a basic, wood core and fiberglass ski. If you drill a hole, and then insert screws, the screws compress the wood fibers to form threads. This is probably less than ideal (better to tap the hole and cut threads so that there is more contact between wood and screw), but also probably good enough. If you use wood glue or epoxy, the wood glue or epoxy becomes HARDER than the wood (aspen, poplar and birch, common core woods are really soft). The wood will fail before eithe rof the glues will. Now, remove your screw and put in a plug. If you glue the plug in, you will fill the threads with a material that is HARDER than wood. When you drill out the plug, any bits of plastic will be embeddeed in a matrix of material HARDER than the wood core of your skis. If you also tap your newly drilled hole, the chances of having significant (singificant meaning bits big enough that if they deform your binding will pull out) amounts of plastic left behind are all but nil.

    Now, imagine a foam core ski. Foam cores are even softer than wood (at least every type of foam I've worked with). So whether you have a wood or foam core, removing plastic plugs and reusing holes is aboslutely NOT going to effect your skiing regardless whether you use wood glue or epoxy. As to some of the new exotic materials, as splat points out, epoxy is the answer. All that a finished carbon fiber is, is a matrix of woven carbon fabric in a two part epoxy. So more epoxy is a good choice. However, even epoxy works best when there is, in addition to adhesion, mechanical bonding, such as by cutting new threads.

    finally, although I agree with splat's advice, I disagree as to the reason. Cured wood glue (aliphatic resin), or even polyvinyl acetate (Elmer's white glue) is highly water resistant. If your skis are sitting there wet long enough for the glue to soften from water exposure, you've got a different problem. I believe the real risk is that wood glue does not bond well with fiberglass or carbon fiber (to be precise it does not bond well with cured epoxy resin), so gaps open at the joint, allowing water penetration.

  19. #44
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    Nov 2004
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    YetiMan
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    13,370
    I've been sealing mount holes with this shit since I realized how flexible and durable it was for sealing surfboard dings....and frankly I think it's pretty much the same shit as shoe goo, the durability of which is pretty much unquestionable. So far so good.

    http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ag_adhesives.htm

  20. #45
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    Nov 2011
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    Yeti, it's basically a rubber cement, meaning it's latex in solvent which evaporates, leaving the latex behind. Should work great, but because solvents vary, and some foams are sensitive to some solvents, I would not use it on foam core skis.

  21. #46
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    I continue to be amazed by the fear people have of working on skis. They are not some exotic beast that can only be tamed by silver ropes and golden carrots.

    First of all, read splat's message above about newer skis. Wood glue is the wrong product for carbon fiber and foam core skis. But also, stop worrying so much regardless of what typoe of ski you have.
    Who said anyone was afraid to work on skis? I just didn't want a binding pullout so I asked a question.

    Anyway... I've got my answer.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  22. #47
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    Nov 2004
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    YetiMan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    Yeti, it's basically a rubber cement, meaning it's latex in solvent which evaporates, leaving the latex behind. Should work great, but because solvents vary, and some foams are sensitive to some solvents, I would not use it on foam core skis.
    I love tgr. I've been kind of wondering about that for a really long time.

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