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  1. #1
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    TGR helps create Hokkaido Backcountry Project

    Hey everybody!

    Just wanted to let you know that TGR helped start a video project documenting the first modern heli ski op in northern Japan.

    Little do people know, but the Japanese were heli and cat skiing in Hokkaido more than 30 years ago!



    An Olympic skier and world traveler Gaman-san had the passion and vision to begin a heli ski operation in the early 1980's, and he ran it for 20 years. Unfortunately, a massive recession and rising costs meant 2003 would be the the last year of living the dream.

    We're planning to follow the crew from Black Diamond Lodge and Niseko's Dragon Helicopter as they work to re-establish heli access on the island 10 years later.

    We hope this documentary will help convince the Japanese government to reopen closed terrain and ease the bureaucratic restrictions that have appeared since Gaman-san's operation closed more than a decade ago.

    Check out our Kickstarter HERE.

    The Hokkaido Backcountry Project will:

    • Document the return of heli skiing and snowboarding on Hokkaido
    • Work with the Japanese government to secure access to the island's best terrain
    • Show big mountain skiers and snowboarders getting after it
    • Explore cat, snowmobile, and human powered BC skiing in Hokkaido
    • Increase safety awareness and help implement risk management practices
    • Be available to our backers on Kickstarter before anyone else




    Black Diamond Lodge and myself hooked up in the forums here, and TGR is very responsible for stoking me out and keeping my head up over the past few years as I've learned BC skiing, gotten injured, worked long crappy hours in an office, etc.

    We will continue posting updates on the web series in this thread. I'm also going to document how I shoot the project in the Photo/Video talk section of these forums.

    Thanks, TGR!
    Last edited by SUPERIOR; 11-10-2014 at 08:13 AM.

  2. #2
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    so that's a burly line

    I hear the helis there are appointed like private jets.
    Its not that I suck at spelling, its that I just don't care

  3. #3
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    I rode the Heli last year with HBC and had a great time. Looking forward to seeing what kind of terrain you guys scope out for this year.

  4. #4
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    When did Backcountry skiing start involving a heli or cat?

  5. #5
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    Here's a few shots of the terrain we'll be exploring on the island of Hokkaido. It's hard to know if many lines have been ridden or not.

    These areas were just reopened to cat skiing, and they include ridges and mini spines. There's also a balance of sea cliffs and some big mountain terrain in a beautiful place called the Daisetsuzan National Park, which is accessible by cablecar and hiking.







    This telephone card was from the early 90's when heli and cat skiing was growing in Japan, until the collapse of the ski economy. Rise of the Phoenix!

    Last edited by SUPERIOR; 10-31-2014 at 10:41 AM.

  6. #6
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    subscribed...

    Some cool looking terrain.
    www.dpsskis.com
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    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  7. #7
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    That let you ride a cat up a mountain in a Japanese National Park?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  8. #8
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    This is a much better pitch. That first one was garbage.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

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  9. #9
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    Thanks, hop. We've been really working hard to involve the local community and I knew we needed to be more specific with the end goal of this project. The idea is to show much more than powder pillows and heli drops.

  10. #10
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    How often do you guys really expect to fly in January and February, maybe a week total?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERIOR View Post
    Thanks, hop. We've been really working hard to involve the local community and I knew we needed to be more specific with the end goal of this project. The idea is to show much more than powder pillows and heli drops.
    Just because the pitch has improved doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. Unless I was already planning on going and using BDL and/or the heli op, there's really nothing exciting in the lower level Kickstarter packages to entice a backer.

    I'm curious how the local (not industry douchebag/gaijin/people like us) touring community is responding to the heli op. Seemed like last year much of the activity was based around Shiribetsu-dake. You can get multiple laps on Shiribetsu-dake in a day just by touring.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  12. #12
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    Thanks for your opinion Hop and everyone else for the comments,
    I am very passionate about this project and sometimes take these comments too personally, I apologize if I offend anyone with my replies.
    Panchosdad, backcountry skiing does not have to include heli or cat skiing if you do not want it to. There are plenty of areas including national parks that you can visit to make sure that you don't run into one while you are backcountry skiing. However, just like lifts at resorts, I feel people should have the option of using these services if they want to or can afford it. Since we started this operation last season I have had the pleasure of meeting over 125 interesting powder junkies. Having never heli skied before we actually started this, I expected what we all might be thinking "pretentious guests who could barely ski". To my surprise 95% of the time this was not the case. They were normal people like small business owners, ceo's, consultant's and construction workers. All very different people but all working many days a year to reward themselves with a few special days each year. I can think of a lot worse things to spend hard earned money on. Unless you are walking everywhere you go to tour, you never ride a lift and you hand carve your skis, I would rather leave out the environmental argument because it can get quite ridiculous.
    Hop, Shiribetsu can be hiked, you are absolutely correct and we are not stopping anyone from doing that. Mt. Yotei, which is very close by, much bigger in scale and could arguably be said to have better lines can also be hiked, and we can't land there. We are working with the local community in Kimobestu (and all the areas we are trying to re-establish) and they have been very supportive. It's when you get to the provincial or national level that things start to get blurry. I mean why screw up your cushy job by taking a risk and saying yes to something new right?
    BLOWhERPOW, last season we flew over 22 full or partial days over 37 possible days (two of the weeks were in February). This year we will start Dec 22nd
    Last year we brought over 1,000,000yen or roughly $10,000USD to the local businesses in just 5 weeks of operation. I don't consider myself "industry douchebag/gaijin/people". I have been living here full time for 16 years, am raising a family here, employ staff year round and have invested my life savings into Hokkaido. Each and every year I have been here I have tried to make a difference and help improve winter tourism and risk management. This began way before I ever invested in the industry. The owner of the heli company and my partner in HBC is one of the hardest working, passionate Japanese persons I have ever met. Makoto has also invested everything he has (and more) into his heli business and is in serious danger of losing everything. Hokkaido Backcountry Club (i know it's a silly name but there is even a sillier bureaucratic reason why it's called that) wants to build a safer, better managed and easier accessed winter playground for everyone to use whenever you visit here. That is why I feel you should sponsor this project even at the $10 level. I think together with Matt and our team we will tell a pretty interesting story.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I just want people to hear both sides of a story before they form one. Below was a reply that I felt I had to write to a series of comments from a visitor to the area who did little research before criticizing us.

    DXXXX JXXXX — 1 star Super lame that HBC will be landing helicopters on Shiribetsu. This is a local's backcountry touring favorite. BAD KARMA HBC!!!!!!!

    Hokkaido Backcountry Club- What is super lame dXXX, is that you refused to meet us to discuss any concerns you had and instead threatened to physically harass our guests if you encountered them on the mountain. I let it go the first three times you posted your ignorant comments, but you still continue to bad-mouth a company you know nothing about on your very own website...wow. It turns out that you also own a tour company who now does tours to Hokkaido (even though you claimed that you were merely here on a holiday when we inquired), you also sell cat skiing and you have posted photos of yourself heli skiing... Some would consider your comments slanderous and hypocritical. As opposed to your total of 6 weeks holiday here, I have been living here for 17 YEARS trying to get resorts and the government to act more responsibly and accept and manage risk at an international level to help benefit tourism in Hokkaido, the island I love. If you actually did some research before you judged you would have learned that Shiribetsu-dake is one of, if not the only mountain that heli-skiing is possible on in Japan due to the fact that it is owned locally and is not under the national government's choke hold on progress and unwillingness to recognize and react to change. We are hoping to use Shiribetsu as a stage to show what is possible and the tourism revenue it can bring to local communities. Speaking of locals, the town which owns Shiribetsu-dake and is home to true born and raised "locals" have given us permission to use the area (did you get permission btw?) and have actually thanked us for the extra revenue it has brought them. Whenever there is change to an area someone will complain, it happens in Canada too. People feel entitled to areas because they were skiing there first... Unless you own that mountain, it ain't yours! It reminds me of the one thing I hate about surfing...and that's localism. But, you're not even a local....talk about bad karma. HBC welcomes any and all discussions and/or concerns regarding the future of backcountry skiing and riding in Hokkaido, that's what we are here for.
    Last edited by BDLodge; 11-16-2014 at 05:03 PM.

  13. #13
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    The potential for a Wasatch-style piss fest seems rather high, esp. considering that Shiribetsu-dake is the ONLY (?) place that heli skiing is allowed. Seems like only heli dropping there is the equivalent of only heli skiing Shuksan Arm at Mt. Baker or Wolverine Cirque in Utah - a high traffic area already used by human-powered backcountry users. Don’t get me wrong – I love heli skiing as much as anyone but IMO it should be used in places that aren’t already high traffic. In the same vein as your “Unless you own the mountain, it ain’t yours” argument, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. I see access to other areas is your main problem though.

    A few questions:
    Can you tell me why the Japanese Gov’t has closed the areas that were used in the past?

    You mentioned cat skiing. Are the cats part of your operation? Are they operating on formerly closed areas or have they always had access?

    Can you share your protocol for landing/skiing when there are other groups on Shiribetsu-dake? I would be pissed if I had toured up there and was getting close to the summit and had a heli group land and shred it before me, or if i was mid-slope for some reason and had a group drop in on top of me. This is the sort of potential user conflict/resolution that I want to know about - consider it "Safety Awareness/Risk Management".

    Were most of your customers people that were in the area already or did they come specifically for the heli action?


    My first-hand knowledge of the area is a tiny fraction of yours, BDLodge. This is just how it looks to me after seeing the first post, the kickstarter page, the edited/updated post, and my previous limited experience in the region. I do feel your pain about working with the Japanese Gov't though; I've experienced that as well and it's a challenge at the best of times.

    As for Yotei - from what I saw, it's a different class of mountain. How many days is that skiable in a season compared to Shiribetsu-dake? There must be far more opportunity to ski Shiribetsu vs. Yotei.

    There are plenty of BC awareness/access issues in my own backyard and I'm much more likely to throw my money to them vs. yours in Japan.

    Btw, if you're in the industry, you're an industry douchebag. No other way around it. Sorry.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

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  14. #14
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    Hop,
    That's the type of response we want to hear, real concerns and questions.
    For the most part, people don't tour up to where we land. Most tour parties tour the west peak, the "ass" of the mountain. Shiribetsu actually means "Mt. ass that is separate". According to the ridiculous and monopolistic Japanese aviation laws. we must have someone stationed at the top of our landing lone (LZ) all day! (try doing that on a remote area with multiple LZ's!). The good news is that he is our eye on the top and can inform us of anything we might have missed. Of course having the bird's eye view is very helpful to see all touring parties on the mountain and we make sure that no one is in harms way. We want and need everyone to communicate where they will be skiing that day. Yes, at the moment it is the ONLY place that we have been granted permission. Makoto, the owner of Dragon Heli came up to Hokkaido because he ran out of options on Honshu, even though it's covered with thousands of mountains! Shiribetsu dake was actually one of the three areas that offered heli skiing back in the day so I don't think we're not stepping on anybody's toes here. The truth is that I never planned to do heli skiing in the first place. Fed up with the mismanagement of resorts, I have been driven to start the first real world class cat operation in Japan for the past 10 years and along the way I met Makoto. In just 18 months of working together we have made huge strides towards reaching both of our goals. All the doors I had been knocking on for the past 6 years are finally getting at very least answered now. Unfortunately I think before when I was trying it solo the Gaijin factor had kept the doors locked, but that's a whole different kettle of fish that we'll just leave for now. Shiribetsu is not "the" place where we want to offer these programs, but like I said it's the only place we have for now and has been a great way to show what's possible. There are thousands of other mountains to tour, we're just using one.
    Mt. Yotei has many more touring options than you may think, especially if you prioritize looking for the best snow over reaching the summit and skiing the crater. There are roads along the base of all aspects of the mountain and all of the start zones allow you to ski back to your car. The falline skiing is incredible and the tree skiing is perfect. It's a windy volcano and the top 20% is usually ice and rock anyway. Yotei is probably 6 times the skiable area of Shiribetsu and for a touring party has more to offer.
    It's hard to answer your question regarding how our customers book because we only got permission last November so had no time to even market our product.
    My take on it is this: we are stuck in a snowstorm all winter. On the days it stops snowing and the sun actually pops (albeit usually only for a short time) It's great to be able to offer as much top to bottom powder as they can possibly handle in that period. It makes for great photos, is great marketing for the area, gets people spending more in the local economy and also keeps a heli close by for search and rescue. We employ some of the most qualified guides in Japan and follow industry standard best practices.

    We plan to answer all of your other questions regarding when and why the rules changed, and tell you all about the areas that we are attempting to re-establish but if you want those answers you need to watch the movie. I'm not going to spoil the story. Like I said before, supporting HBC and this project will hopefully insure that when you do come back (everyone always does), we will be closer to achieving world class standards regarding risk management and have more adventures for you to go on with a safety plan to back it. Throw an industry douchebag dog a bone here!
    Last edited by BDLodge; 11-03-2014 at 02:01 AM.

  15. #15
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    I found this on your website. Can you point out where your LZ is and what descent route(s) you usually take?


    Having one guy on top of every LZ does seem like a logistical nightmare, esp. considering the weather. Still, I’m not sure how one guy on top of Shiribetsu could know how many touring parties are on the mountain or where they are. If you tour up the center ridge leading from the resort (the one that puts you in the middle of the summit ridge area) you’re invisible from the summit for virtually all of the ascent, and when you get closer to the top there you could decide to go any number of routes down depending on the snow and conditions. That's the only way I've been up but there but must be other ways up since when we got to the summit we saw other groups that had approached from other directions, with other descent routes in mind.


    You mention wanting and needing (!) every touring party to communicate their plans (with you? or you to them?), but how do you intend to make that happen? Are you planning on being some sort of Air Traffic Controller for parties on Shiribetsu? When I was there, touring up there was a game-time decision in the first place and we had a few descent options in mind. We decided on our route once we got farther up the mountain. Even if we had known to or wanted to communicate there’s no way we could have told you where we were going until we were ready to descend.


    Seems like this would be less of an issue if you went to areas with less traffic, but again that's apparently the problem. Catch-22 indeed.


    I know you're trying to make a go of it and I respect that completely. That being said, you're never going to convince me to invest until I get some answers to the questions I've been asking. You're asking me for money and I want to know more about the situation BEFORE I decide to buy in. If I have to wait for the movie to get answers, well... that's too late. PM me if you don't want to spoil the story for others.


    Also, looking at your website - how many of your customers are westerners and how many are Japanese? I noticed all of your guides seem to be westerners. Before joining up with Makoto did you work with any of the local (as in Japanese) guides?
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post


    I found this on your website. Can you point out where your LZ is and what descent route(s) you usually take?
    That's one of mine

    Shiribetsu-dake is far right of picture, the summit plateau just shrouded by cloud.

    The lines you can see in this pic are ones typically done by tourers accessing the peak from either the road or from Rusutsu's West Mtn.

    The Hokkaido Backcountry Club land on the summit, but drop back side of the peak in the image above.


    This is what the HBC ski terrain looks like from Kimobetsu town





    Hope that helps


    There's steeper terrain for touring about 30 mins or so away with roughly the same ascent time as Shiribetsu-dake.


  17. #17
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    I can't seem to find a link to the kickstarted project referenced in this post? Can anyone help?

  18. #18
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    Yes! The project should be active in the next day or two, and I'm currently cutting a video that will accompany it. Thanks for the interest, 2wheeler

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Pow View Post


    There's steeper terrain for touring about 30 mins or so away with roughly the same ascent time as Shiribetsu-dake.

    Wow what's under the snow there? I don't think I've ever seen that many glide cracks before.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    Wow what's under the snow there? I don't think I've ever seen that many glide cracks before.
    A forest full of sasa (bamboo).

    Similar glide crack development as with bear grass as seen in places like Montana.

  21. #21
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    Thanks for the info Mike! That does help.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    Thanks for the info Mike! That does help.
    My pleasure.

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the info Mike.
    HOP, last season 98% of our customers were foreigners. We employ foreign guides because the ability to communicate effectively, experience and training are the three most important criteria for us. Japanese guides that come with this "total package" are hard to come by and are usually already employed, but we're working on it.
    You don't need to communicate to us that you are touring, I apologize for using that word. What I simply meant is that we would very much appreciate anyone touring that day to communicate to us their plan either when they get to the top, when we run in to you on the mountain or the morning of, just like you might do anywhere so that people aren't exposing themselves to extra and avoidable risk. If, on your way up you can't hear the heli, you might want to turn down your headphones . We only fly with decent visibility and we approach from all angles so there is a very strong chance we will see you anyways. Hope that helps.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDLodge View Post
    Thanks for the info Mike.
    HOP, last season 98% of our customers were foreigners. We employ foreign guides because the ability to communicate effectively, experience and training are the three most important criteria for us. Japanese guides that come with this "total package" are hard to come by and are usually already employed, but we're working on it.
    You don't need to communicate to us that you are touring, I apologize for using that word. What I simply meant is that we would very much appreciate anyone touring that day to communicate to us their plan either when they get to the top, when we run in to you on the mountain or the morning of, just like you might do anywhere so that people aren't exposing themselves to extra and avoidable risk. If, on your way up you can't hear the heli, you might want to turn down your headphones . We only fly with decent visibility and we approach from all angles so there is a very strong chance we will see you anyways. Hope that helps.
    BDLodge, I have stayed in your lodge and was a client of BD Tours on two ultimate pow tours two seasons in a row. You run an excellent operation that has a high return rate. I don't mean any disrespect to your heli business dreams, but I don't think I would be happy touring Shiribetsu if it was being used for heli-skiing at the same time. Skinning up and skiing Shiribetsu was one of my most memorable days in Japan. I stay in contact with some of the people that were in my tour group and, because of that day, they have become BC touring enthusiasts. The last thing I want to hear while I am touring up a mountain as beautiful and peaceful as Shiribetsu is a helicopter buzzing over my head. I think BC tourers have legitimate concerns that there will be conflict with heli-skiers, and expecting conflict can be avoided by communication may be wishful thinking. I hope you can cut through the Japanese red tape quickly and fly to mountains that are not so heavily used by BC tourers.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDLodge View Post
    Thanks for the info Mike.
    HOP, last season 98% of our customers were foreigners. We employ foreign guides because the ability to communicate effectively, experience and training are the three most important criteria for us. Japanese guides that come with this "total package" are hard to come by and are usually already employed, but we're working on it.
    You don't need to communicate to us that you are touring, I apologize for using that word. What I simply meant is that we would very much appreciate anyone touring that day to communicate to us their plan either when they get to the top, when we run in to you on the mountain or the morning of, just like you might do anywhere so that people aren't exposing themselves to extra and avoidable risk. If, on your way up you can't hear the heli, you might want to turn down your headphones . We only fly with decent visibility and we approach from all angles so there is a very strong chance we will see you anyways. Hope that helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goniff View Post
    BDLodge, I have stayed in your lodge and was a client of BD Tours on two ultimate pow tours two seasons in a row. You run an excellent operation that has a high return rate. I don't mean any disrespect to your heli business dreams, but I don't think I would be happy touring Shiribetsu if it was being used for heli-skiing at the same time. Skinning up and skiing Shiribetsu was one of my most memorable days in Japan. I stay in contact with some of the people that were in my tour group and, because of that day, they have become BC touring enthusiasts. The last thing I want to hear while I am touring up a mountain as beautiful and peaceful as Shiribetsu is a helicopter buzzing over my head. I think BC tourers have legitimate concerns that there will be conflict with heli-skiers, and expecting conflict can be avoided by communication may be wishful thinking. I hope you can cut through the Japanese red tape quickly and fly to mountains that are not so heavily used by BC tourers.
    Music stays in the car and my general rule of thumb is to say hi to any touring party I find to discuss routes/plans/snow/make sure we don't drop in on each other, etc. However, unless every touring party on Shiribetsudake started at the heli base, there's no way to communicate or "run into" each other unless the touring party is at the top of the mountain when you guys come in for a drop. You might see them while you're flying around but it probably takes you a couple minutes to get to the top while it might take two hours for someone on skins. Are you going to wait around on top to chat while they finish their climb? Unless you do, the touring party that hears and sees the helicopter only knows that there's a group of five people about to drop in somewhere above them.

    I'm going to guess that back in the days of Gaman-san there wasn't the BC traffic on Shiribetsudake that there is now. I'm with Goniff - hopefully you can get to less-traveled areas quickly.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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