2014 Technica Cochise Boot line

[Island Bay]

Hah, good response, GregL.
Meticulous toenail trimmer, no backseat dweller, and excellent fit otherwise, so it sounds like the stars might be aligned.
Will go back and try them on with my old ProTour liners and footbeds.
If I were to require a few more mm of length, would that be hard to achieve with punching? Sorry, new to punching, so better ask.

[gregL]

If I were to require a few more mm of length, would that be hard to achieve with punching? Sorry, new to punching, so better ask.

It's not hard for most experienced bootfitters with the right equipment to get another 8-9mm of length out of a Cochise shell. The Triax plastic gets really tacky on the surface and takes imprints really easily (like fingerprints) so it's wise to add a good percentage of the heat from the inside if you can - ask the person who does the work about this if you care about cosmetics.

[gregL]

Anyone have the scoop on the 14/15 K2 Pinnacle 130 LV's and how they compare to the Cochise 130's? Fit? Construction? Specs? Looking at these 2 boots for this season.

K2 Pinnacle 130 LV fits narrower overall, is noticeably lower over the instep, weighs 300 grams more in the same size, and has a cool power strap design. Tecnica Cochise Pro 130 has a much superior rearward range of cuff motion and a more relaxed fit. Both boots ski very well for walk mode boots. The K2 tech soles worked well for me in both ISO 5355 mode and tech mode, though the boot is too heavy to tour far in. Cochise requires aftermarket tech sole purchase if you want to use tech bindings. K2 stock liner (bottom half is Intuition) gets the nod. Neither boot is a true 130 flex if you're one of those people who think that's a big deal, but they are close to each other in forward flex.

Aside from fit, if you plan to tour much in these boots, I'd have to give the edge to the Cochise. If you only plan to tour a few times in them, the Pinnacles ski great and give you more binding options straight out of the box.

[Swine]

Close to 8-9mm more out of just the toebox...possible gregL?

I've punched mine more than that. Started out as a 25 now almost a 27.


From a fone

[Swine]

K2 Pinnacle 130 LV fits narrower overall, is noticeably lower over the instep, weighs 300 grams more in the same size, and has a cool power strap design. Tecnica Cochise Pro 130 has a much superior rearward range of cuff motion and a more relaxed fit. Both boots ski very well for walk mode boots. The K2 tech soles worked well for me in both ISO 5355 mode and tech mode, though the boot is too heavy to tour far in. Cochise requires aftermarket tech sole purchase if you want to use tech bindings. K2 stock liner (bottom half is Intuition) gets the nod. Neither boot is a true 130 flex if you're one of those people who think that's a big deal, but they are close to each other in forward flex.

Aside from fit, if you plan to tour much in these boots, I'd have to give the edge to the Cochise. If you only plan to tour a few times in them, the Pinnacles ski great and give you more binding options straight out of the box.

There's a thread about massive failure with the Pinnacles from all kinds of people. I wouldn't touch them until that issue is fixed. (Has it been fixed?) Sucks, I was looking at getting that boot.


From a fone

[gregL]

There's a thread about massive failure with the Pinnacles from all kinds of people. I wouldn't touch them until that issue is fixed. (Has it been fixed?)

I have about 40 days on a pair of them with no problems, and I roll pretty hard (not my only boot, and I don't really use it in "tour" mode). I've personally seen a couple of latch hardware problems, all from year one (none last year) but haven't actually seen a cuff tear as in the pictures. I believe K2 has addressed the failure problems adequately, though they haven't gotten any lighter.

[steved]

I've punched mine more than that. Started out as a 25 now almost a 27.

Thanks for the encouraging news guys....

[TahoeJ]

I've punched mine more than that. Started out as a 25 now almost a 27.

How does your boot even fit into your binding? I'm curious to see what this looks like... pics?

[Swine]

I'll take some when I get home, they are fucked up looking, that's for sure.

[Island Bay]

Thanks for all the good advice.
Bought a pair of 27.5s. Shell measures 294mm internally, my 28.5 Maestrales 300mm. With my 280mm feet I can happily tour all day for weeks in the Maestrales, so felt pretty good about the shell fit of the Cochises.

Just baked my high volume Intuition Luxury Liners. Put i strip of 6mm eva foam between toe and toe cap, and damn if they don't just fit perfectly.

As usual, I added a strip of 4mm bootfittting foam to the tongues, and now my feet are locked in so hard, but so good. My toes just touch when in walk mode, but there's a nice big air pocket around them. I have high hopes for these boots.

Real world feedback after next week.

[skier666]

I've put in some good use to my 14' Cochise Pro Light Alpine 120 in 100mm last. After a few visits tweaking the shell (actually feel a bit smaller than expected for a 100mm last boot to me) and adding a booster strap...the boot is now fitting perfectly. Downhill performance is actually pretty strong for a tall/heavy Yank like myself but my only major complaint is that it seems the cuff is a bit low for my liking and my shins. For someone who doesn't tour a ton, the light weight and strong downhill performance is hard to beat.

[Eastcoastdan]

How are you guys adding Booster straps to these? Anyone have a picture they can post for reference? Having a hard time picturing how it would interact with the buckle/strap combo up top.

[skier666]

I'll take a pic...basically wraps around the top part of the liner.

[Island Bay]

Cochise 110 first impressions.

I have just had 4 days on these, so have a good idea of how they ski, but obviously can't comment on durability or long term issues.

Me, 6'1 x 170. Skis, Praxis MVP 187, stock. Skied at Craigieburn, NZ, in powder, Kiwi powder (chalky, cold snow), Kiwi variable (Kiwi powder with patches of boiler plate), and the sweetest wind buff imaginable - oh and corn and spring slush.

For sizing details see my post above.

Initial reaction before skiing; holy heck, these fit! The Intuition HV Luxury liners are quite firm, and this an anatomical shell, so I have to really spread the shell to even get into them. My first half hour skiing and riding rope tows was painful, with lots of pressure on the base of the 5th metatarsal (that bump towards the heel), but a 10min rest with buckles open and I was good to go. Second buckle open, they feel pleasant and loose, but close it in the first notch and bang, my foot is locked in ( thank you Intuition).

Much has been said about the powerstrap buckle, and it fricken works; instant walk/ski mode transition, without having to fiddle with any velcro. The walk mode pull tab, however, is a bit flimsy, so hard to feel with gloves on. I'll make little toggles out of 6-8mm rope, 30mm long or so, and sew them on the ends (across). Should make for an easy to grip handle.

During the 4 days, I skied harder and faster than I have in a long time. The boots give me the control to ski how I like to ski, and probably pushed me farther than I thought I could go. Very impressive. And asides from that first half hour, there was no pain.
The flex is progressive, and they are definitely stiffer than my mango Maestrales. I'm not into super stiff boots, and never felt under gunned. A/B'ing them with the 120s in the shop had me struggling to feel any difference, but the Intuition Luxury Liners definitely stiffened them up compared to the stock liners.

I did not skin in them yet, but did an obscene amount of boot packing and hiking, with one 5000+ft day. The ROM is nothing like my Maestrales, but it is a decent walk mode which feels good within its limited range. I bought these for NZ clubbie skiing, and not for epic tours, and the walk mode is fine for that. I'll still take my Maestrales to Japan and for NZ North Island volcano spring skiing.

I might do some spot heating/forming of the liners to make just a few mm more room for my toes and for the 5th met bases. Should be quite easy to achieve.

The one thing I struggled with a bit is the lack of Vibram soles. A world of difference when booting/hiking, but no hairy moments, thankfully. I hope the tech soles have better grip.

To sum up:
- great fit
- beautiful, progressive flex
- skis like an alpine boot
- good quality walk mode, but limited ROM. Not enough for long/flat tours if you have a long stride
- powerstrap buckle rocks
- DIN soles suck in terms of grip
- reasonable weight (1800gr in size 27.5 with Intuition HV Luxury Liner)
- very little difference between 110 and 120 models - at least for this hack
- don't be afraid to size down. 27.5 with 320 BSL sounds funny, right?
- not the Holy Grail, but perfect for my needs

[skier666]

How are you guys adding Booster straps to these? Anyone have a picture they can post for reference? Having a hard time picturing how it would interact with the buckle/strap combo up top.

[1000-oaks]

Does the 2015+ plastic (Pebax family) stiffen up much in the cold, or do they stay about the same as when at room temperature?

[Island Bay]

Does the 2015+ plastic (Pebax family) stiffen up much in the cold, or do they stay about the same as when at room temperature?

I didn't notice any difference (but it was never really cold). With the Luxury Liner, mine were stiff indoors and out.

[XavierD]

It is still plastic, so yeah, it's gonna change.

[TahoeJ]

Yes they get stiffer for sure.

[1000-oaks]

Yes they get stiffer for sure.

Good to know, thanks. The Pebax manufacturer claims a lot less thermal change than PU, but that could be mostly marketing hype.

Just received a pair of 2015 Pro 130's, and they're a very close shell fit (probably 1/4" to 3/8"). Removed the thin red microcell foot board to create enough room under the instep for now, could always put it back in after the liners are molded or pack out a bit. Toes are rammed against the front of the shell, and it's really bad if I lean back at all, even with the buckles tight. Don't think the shell needs to be punched though, since my toes pull off the front of the shells when I flex forward.

The big question: Just how moldable is the C.A.S. UltraFit Pro liner compared to an Intuition? Does only the outer orange microcell layer heat-mold, or does the whole liner? The strip around the toes is neoprene, so there won't be any molding happening there. However, there is a lot of material around the ankle and Achilles area (that provides excellent heel hold-down) that hopefully might compress during a heat mold, allowing the whole foot to shift to the rear in the shell a little.

Anyone have any experience heat molding the CAS liner, particularly with heat stacks? (I use an adjustable digital heat gun and a rubber hose to mold Intuitions from the inside-out and it works great.)

[Eastcoastdan]

Thanks skier 666!

[wasatchback]

Good to know, thanks. The Pebax manufacturer claims a lot less thermal change than PU, but that could be mostly marketing hype.

Just received a pair of 2015 Pro 130's, and they're a very close shell fit (probably 1/4" to 3/8"). Removed the thin red CAS foot board to create enough room under the instep for now, could always put it back in after the liners are molded or pack out a bit. Toes are rammed against the front of the shell, and it's really bad if I lean back at all, even with the buckles tight. Don't think the shell needs to be punched though, since my toes pull off the front of the shells when I flex forward.

The big question: Just how moldable is the C.A.S. UltraFit Pro liner compared to an Intuition? Does only the outer orange CAS layer heat-mold, or does the whole liner? The strip around the toes is neoprene, so there won't be any molding happening there. However, there is a lot of material around the ankle and Achilles area (that provides excellent heel hold-down) that hopefully might compress during a heat mold, allowing the whole foot to shift to the rear in the shell a little.

Anyone have any experience heat molding the CAS liner, particularly with heat stacks? (I use an adjustable digital heat gun and a rubber hose to mold Intuitions from the inside-out and it works great.)

Triax and other plastics in the same "family" (PP based plastics like Pebax) are less temperature sensitive than PU/PE based plastics. It is a fact. Yes they will stiffen in the cold and soften when warm but the swing will not be as much as PU or PE. It's not just marketing hype.

Every liner is "heat moldable". However "heat moldable" is a very generic term. Intuition and other similar liners (Palau as well) are called thermoform liners. They're 100% made up of a closed cell EVA that when heated in a oven at a certain temp for a certain time will completely mold to your foot. Nowadays most high end liners have some sort of similar EVA that when heated on the typical heat stacks will somewhat form to your foot. As most people know this basically just speeds up the break in process. It does nothing more than what skiing in your boots for a few days does. Those heat stacks were invented to give the average customer who doesn't know a lot about ski boots a warm cushy experience in the shop. Biggest problem with EVA is that it packs out or breaks down over time.

The CAS liners found in the Mach boots and now the 15/16 Cochise boots, work a little differently. Yes there is a small amount of EVA inside the liner that will "form" slightly when heated on heat stacks. This is the first step of you're looking to or need to customize the liner. Like I said it just speeds up the break in period.

Unlike other liners though the CAS liner has a firm micro cell material on the outside of the liner (the orange material with all the little dots) that is preshaped at the factory. This material is similar to what you would find in say a Comforable foot bed (although not quite as rigid or thick). Instead of a bunch of EVA padding inside a liner that pushes against your foot to hold it in place the CAS material's preshaped form cradles your foot and creates a pocket in the boot for your foot to fall into. It's a similar concept to a foam liner. Best part about the micro cell stuff is that after say 5 days of skiing that is how your liners will fit in those areas for the life of the liner. Too replacing EVA with a firm rigid material means you get less of that marshmallow effect when skiing. You get better contact with the shell and better sensation/energy transfer. This is the biggest reason I hated skiing in intuitions. Yes they're warm and can make up for a shitty fitting boot but there is so much foam I felt really disconnected to the boot and my skis compared to a regular stock liner.

The CAS liners can be completely baked like an intuition style liner. That micro cell material loses all it's preformed shaped and will mold to your foot and the liner (just like a footbed molds to your foot) however this is the last step you would take in fitting these liners and would require a seriously fucked up foot to even want to do it. You can grind the CAS material and spot punch it as well. I would always do these two steps before fully baking the liner.

Hope that helps.

[1000-oaks]

^ Thanks for all the info Wasatch, appreciate it. Glad the pair I picked up happened to be the 2016 model, didn't realize the 2015 Cochise 120/130 didn't get the new liner.

When punching the new Triax 2 plastic, what's the ideal temperature?

[SupreChicken]

Damn. Have the 2015s. Got them cheap in the spring sales from TP. Anyone have any experience with a powerwrap or prowrap liner in these? Sure looks really tight at home, but the stock liner looks just awful and weighs almost 500g per foot.

I used an HD race in the 2013 and that was a good system for a couple seasons, but the liners and boots are both just beat to all hell now. Got a good deal on some unused prowraps, just not sure I can make it work. 1.5 finger shell fit...

What's my liner move? Cram the prowraps in there and hope I can get my feet in and out? Or jump on the group buy and get another tongue style?

I do much more inbounds and sidecountry than bc riding with these boots...the stocks do feel super comfy in the living room.

[Lindahl]

Intuitions can get really thin. I bet it'd work fine. Just make sure you can get your whole foot and close it in there for a good heat mold. I have about a 1cm shell fit.