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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    327
    Quote Originally Posted by angrysasquatch View Post
    Hmm, I felt that course was perfect. Helped me boil down to what is important on a given day/ snow cycle. Knowing which tool in the box to use is really the start of true understanding.
    sounds like they covered whats most important for most bc enthusiasts. Sometimes the science can add confusion/second guessing to a very clear picture.

    and oftentimes a pit is only valuable for where you are standing. Good for a history lesson, but oftentimes not for a go/no go.

    terrain management/route finding trumps all.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    33,546
    I agree with the Rog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tetons
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    243
    Thanks for the input everyone. Some good things to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr brownstone View Post
    sounds like they covered whats most important for most bc enthusiasts. Sometimes the science can add confusion/second guessing to a very clear picture.

    and oftentimes a pit is only valuable for where you are standing. Good for a history lesson, but oftentimes not for a go/no go.

    terrain management/route finding trumps all.
    As you mention, my main hesitation with a Level 2 is the amount of snow science material. While interesting to learn about, is not as useful to me (or the typical BC skier for that matter) as route finding, terrain mgmt, etc.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    13
    Great question and discussion. I took avy 2 and was way over my head. The amount of snow science was quite dense and I hadn't logged nearly enough days. This was several years ago and I was super green, although I got a lot out of it, I just imagine how much I could pull out of it now! We did not study terrain selection at all which was a huge bummer. This was about ten years ago and it sounds like the courses differ quite a bit. I agree it's about what you want in the future and how you think, if you are naturally gifted with sciences and geek out by all means go for it, or if you want to be a guide again knock yourself out. If you just want to improve your skills and money is super tight I might spend it on other things.

    Although, if I could be guaranteed route finding and beacon search technique would be thoroughly covered as it was not in my class I may give a completely different answer...

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Valdez, AK
    Posts
    26
    Avalanche Education is a great thing. An even greater thing is traveling to different mountain ranges, and experiencing how things are different everywhere you go. Alaska is one of those places you can not replicate anywhere else in the world.

    -BOV
    @blackopsvaldez

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Closed Area
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    1,188
    You can find a list of AAA certified instructors here: http://americanavalancheassociation....instructor.php

    I recommend research. Figure out what you want to learn, then look for an instructor whose skill set complements your goals. Ask them to teach you. If you don't like the way the suit fits, stop buying off the rack.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    8,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantana1 View Post
    As you mention, my main hesitation with a Level 2 is the amount of snow science material. While interesting to learn about, is not as useful to me (or the typical BC skier for that matter) as route finding, terrain mgmt, etc.
    Almost sounds to me that you might find more value in re-taking level 1`, but with a different instructor and in a different range than before, to get new perspectives?

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Before
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    I thought mine were.

    Yeah, in one there was a ton of applied physics about how and why snow transforms (high vapor pressure causes vapor to crystallize on the tips of the flakes) but in both the field work was way more intense with timed multiple burials and more pit time.

    I thought they were excellent and would recommend it with the caveat that I found the sciencey part of it really cool.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    west tetons
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    2,090
    Good discussion. I teach a lot of level 2s, and in the last few years they have become more relevant (IMHO), especially with the advent of the avalanche problems/ characters in the forecasts. We try to wrap the science into the appropriate problem, for example talking about surface hoar development/ destruction/ persistence in the discussion of persistent slabs (which I insist should be called persistent weak layers...).

    The real difference in a good level 2 is translating the forecast/ science into action. On AAI courses we do map exercises, route planning using slides, and then go in small groups into real terrain where we swing leads and make real decisions. I make a point of asking tough questions that you might not get when you're out with your peers- that's the real benefit of taking a course- you get prompted to pull it all together, and you get introduced and somewhat trained up to take those habits to your own practice.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Tetons
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    243
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Almost sounds to me that you might find more value in re-taking level 1`, but with a different instructor and in a different range than before, to get new perspectives?
    Possibly but I like the idea of a more advanced curriculum in level 2. Although re-hearing the fundamentals taught in level 1 from a different instructor in a different range would be nice, I don't think its the best use of my money currently.

  11. #36
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    Feb 2010
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    Tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by homemadesalsa View Post
    The real difference in a good level 2 is translating the forecast/ science into action. On AAI courses we do map exercises, route planning using slides, and then go in small groups into real terrain where we swing leads and make real decisions. I make a point of asking tough questions that you might not get when you're out with your peers- that's the real benefit of taking a course- you get prompted to pull it all together, and you get introduced and somewhat trained up to take those habits to your own practice.
    This sounds great.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
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    33,546
    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    I wouldn't suggest any camp/course based on touring/skiing in lieu of a course aimed at true technical knowledge. Just my $0.02
    I disagree. I think the more sciencey/crystal gazing based (while in itself fascinating) level 2 course is ill suited to most recreational skiers

    Safe travel - getting your head up out of holes you've dug in the snow (which level 1 courses themselves promote too much), terrain choices, route planning, safe travel, beacon search etc more useful for most people.

    More technique than technical.
    Last edited by PNWbrit; 10-06-2014 at 05:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  13. #38
    Hugh Conway Guest
    the problem is for most skiers (a fact that's always glossed over by professionals) a course that's long enough to teach that well is probably a poor use of time, or just difficult to schedule with a reasonable snowpack. I guess if you are some guide wannabe a weeks great, or spending several $k on a private guided avy tutorial is a good use of time or something. It's not rocket science, go skiing. So many people fuck up out on snow so often and live anyways.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,966
    Why did fuac drop their 3-day courses offered in BCC? I got a ton of very practical classroom teaching and field training. At the time that I took it, there didn't seem to be anything else like it.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Colorado
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    2,071
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Almost sounds to me that you might find more value in re-taking level 1`, but with a different instructor and in a different range than before, to get new perspectives?
    This can be a good way to open your eyes to other types of snowpack (i.e., continental Vs. Maritime). But, I think a good "small group rescue" course would be a good step between L1 and L2.
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    JH/AK/Los Andes
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    2,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    This can be a good way to open your eyes to other types of snowpack (i.e., continental Vs. Maritime).
    Or (to say it a different way) a year that doesn't exhibit typical weather patterns for your home range. Such as a low tide year in the pnw or a high tide year in Colorado.
    "The idea wasnt for me, that I would be the only one that would ever do this. My idea was that everybody should be doing this. At the time nobody was, but this was something thats too much fun to pass up." -Briggs
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Wear your climbing harness. Attach a big anodized locker to your belay loop so its in prime position to hit your nuts. Double russian Ti icescrews on your side loops positioned for maximal anal rape when you sit down. Then everyone will know your radness
    More stoke, less shit.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by telebobski View Post
    Like Hugh and Brutah points out, the value depends on your objectives.

    If you want to learn more about snow and atmospheric science, it's great

    If you want to stay alive, all the info is there in Avy 1, Staying alive, American Avy Assn or the intertubes in general you just have to apply it in the field.
    +1. Take it if you want to be a pro guide or forecaster (or just really enjoy nerding out on the stuff, which is totally fine).

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    996
    [QUOTE=telebobski;4318957]Good ideas. I find watching A Dozen More Turns a good refresher on Human Factors as well.
    http://ullrlabs.com/amber_seyler.html[/

    +1. Take it if you want to be a pro guide or forecaster (or just really enjoy nerding out on the stuff, which is totally fine).

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    336
    The level 2 is valuable knowledge for skiing in the BC. Check out mtavalanche.com for information on course offerings in Montana.

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