Speed Radicals vs Speed Turns

[HHTELE]

I have only used Verticals. Having seen the effects Dynafit brakes have on stopping skis on hard snow, I have decided to go brakeless. I am liking the B and D coil cables.

Switching to Speeds this season, considering the Speed Turn. Functionally speaking identical to the pre-Radical Speeds, with additional fore/aft heel adjustability.

A couple questions:
Is the speed heel as easy to turn as a comfort heel? Since I am used to a variety of tele heel lifts, I find the comforts pretty easy.
Transitions- I am pretty inflexible. Rotating a Radical heel with ski on looks tricky. Is it? I haven't gone brakeless enough to decide whether going from ski to tour with skis on works for me, but often go from tour to ski.

Anybody out there using Speed Radicals considering Speed Turns?

For my use, they look like a better choice, but having never used Radicals, I don't have much perspective.

[GeezerSteve]

Is the speed heel as easy to turn as a comfort heel?

Which Speed? Answer for Speed Classic/Turn: With a pole, no. By hand, yes. I've modded my Speed Classics to B&D comfort knockoff volcanoes (on B&D or DIY top plates).

[Quadzilla]

OK, these are my opinions as I have had and used TLT's which has similar mechanics to the Turn, ST's and the past few seasons the Speed Radical. I never really liked the heel post on the TLT's even so it is durable. For me it was never user friendly getting pole into the small hole and turning the binding to change climb angles on different slope angles and places that were tight. When the ST's came out, I thought they were a great user friendly binding mainly because the heel was easy to turn with a ski pole as compared. Now, all my bindings are Speed Radicals, first they need(for me) to be turned by hand but in climb mode they don't have to be turned and the heel risers are way easier than any tele heel riser to use. So, when climbing it is easy to adjust the rise for different slope angles and you will do it often. So, there is two transitions. From ski to climb you need to take skis off anyway to add skins so the bindings are easy to turn. From climb to ski, for me it takes a little more thought. First, I am inflexible too. So at that transition I look for a place that has a little rise, I then drop down one ski semi flat footed and one ski with heel elevated and turn the binding on the flat foot. I then push the other ski up the rise and bend over to turn that binding. Now both bindings are locked in I then adjust boots, rip skins and decend.

Anyway, bottomline for me, I like the Radicals because of the heel risers and will spend the extra over the Turns even so performance will be the same.

[HHTELE]

My real thoughts on the Speed turn had to do with the ability to change modes with the skis on. I am in the East, and end up in a lot of rolling terrain, so even ski to tour swaps are handy.

Steve- how well do the B and D cones work? Got to be cheaper than the yoga lessons and gym membership I would need to rotate heels by hand with my skis on.

[GeezerSteve]

B&D volcanoes work well, beefier than OEM Comforts, best thing going for the Van Halen mode change.

Re the Turn, it looks like a great deal, although IME the Radical toe is a worthy upgrade

[I've seen black diamonds!]

The Speed Turns are a little harder to use than Comfort/Verticals, which are a little harder than Radicals. The Speed Turns are, however, generally the most durable. How much it matters to you I don't know. I think a lot of people fiddle with their lifters more than is necessary. If you want to save a little energy try staying in the flat position more. You can take longer strides and your skins will tend to grip better.

[GeezerSteve]

Speed Turn/Speed Classic heel is indeed tough and durable. I think the Radical toe is more robust, thus my favorite combo: Speed Classic heel + B&D top plate/volcano + Radical toe

[gregL]

Agree with Big Steve that the Radical toe is a better and potentially safer design. I slightly prefer the "classic" style lifter/heel plate as well, though I don't use my pole to turn them - if you can bend over to turn them the original is fine if not the B&D top plate/volcano is nice - not sure if they will fit the Turn heel. At present my favorite medium light combo is Radical toe and Plum Guide heel, but I don't think I can justify the expense of turning four good sets of bindings into two this season.

Still waiting for the Dynafit Radical Turn 14.

[XXX-er]

I got verts & rads and I'm fine with either last season I seen a couple of rad top plate failure where the screws just strip out of the body in< a season, these were 2 very skinny very good skiers who ski lots and are not hard on the gear

[GeezerSteve]

Top plate fixing screw stripout failures are usually caused by loose screws. Keep 'em snug but don't tighten 'em down too much cuz they're brittle. Glue optional.

[XXX-er]

I think there is just too much leverage on that top plate in the rad design cuz a couple of skinny guys shouldn't be stripping out those screws on a brand new binding but you say they can be fixed with epoxy ?

[Ivan Oder]

+1 on going brakeless. Once you get over that, things get a lot easier/cheaper/better for touring bindings.

I think either option will do well, the Radical toe is a bit better at avoiding pre-releases from side impacts, the flip lifters are very easy and don't require a lot of force to move and can be done very easily with the pole grip/basket. However they are more prone to breakage than a solid lift, they are moving parts, with a spring and a pin and a pillow block in the top plate to hold it all etc etc.. things could crack.

The speed is much simpler and more robust, but doesn't have an easy way to rotate the lift with your pole, so a lot of bending down on the trail if you're in variable terrain. That might suck if you've got a heavy pack or a less than perfect back. The B&D aftermarket top plate and volcano could help with that.

I never managed to break the lifters, but my v1 Radical FT broke in other ways I and had to get another binding for touring.

I kept the fairly decent Radical toe so now I've got this:

[HHTELE]

I checked with B and D- the top plates will fit the speed turns.

[gregL]

My new Speed Radicals shipped with an anti-twist device that attaches under the pivot post and hangs off the left side of the heelpiece. Judging from how hard it is to twist it into position, I'm pretty sure it will do the job it's intended for. If you have older Speed Radicals Salewa has a kit they will send you that includes this piece and some thin washers to provide a bit of clearance under the heel; it seems they made the plastic base a little thicker on the 14-15 models.

http://www.randosaigai.com/speedrad_002.jpg

[Lindahl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[gregL]

Here's what the anti-twist device looks like in "tour" position, the shape matches the contour of the heel housing perfectly. It's easier to twist the heel counterclockwise into this position, although it is possible to rotate it clockwise over the device it feels like something would eventually break. As far as top plate screws and plates breaking, it's critical to check tightness on the screws regularly on Radicals - leverage from skinning tends to loosen the screws, which allows the plastic top plate to flex, which results in cracking. If the screws are kept snug, it usually is fine. Too bad they didn't make the top plate out of metal.

[DaveJR]

Is anyone out there thinking of making a top plate out of metal? Seen a few break. Not too excited about that.

[cdubski]

I'm also getting a pair of Radicals or Turns after years on Verticals. A factor for me is bsl adjustment range...I can use my 2 different boots with Verticals at pretty much the limit of their adjustment range.

Can anyone confirm whether the Radical FT/ST with brakes vs Radical Speeds vs Turns all have the same adjustment range? Or does one heel have more range over others? Are they more/less/the same compared to Verticals? I've read different things and shop guys just gave me another opinion...

[cdubski]

Asked Wildsnow and got a quick response to above question:

"Well, I went out to the shop and compared Vertical and Radical ST/FT, the Radical has about 2 mm less range to the rear and about 1 mm less to the front, that's in a direct comparo sandwiching one binding with the other, bottom to bottom, screw holes lined up.

Speed Radical goes backward to the same position as Radical FT/ST (in relation to mount screw holes), but goes about 2 mm less forward.

99.9 that Speed Turn has same base as Speed Rad."

[CaliBrit]

Bump in case anyone is looking at these, the speed turn (pre radical toe) have the stiffer black toe springs dynafit put in the FT12.

[Boissal]

Bump for an interesting footnote about the SpeedTurn, this may be specific to the 2.0 version. Found on TelemarkPyrenees, can't find it on Dynafit's website:

"Thanks to the higher torsional rigidity of the baseplate, Dynafit recommend the Speed Turn 2.0 for skis up to 95 mm at the waist - 10 mm more than the earlier model"

Never seen width recommendation explicitly stated before even though it's pretty intuitive that a narrow aluminum base isn't going to be happy with the torque or a massively wide ski.
Interestingly the Superlite 2.0 which doesn't seem to have a wider screw pattern has the same language but with 105 mm wait ski.

Thoughts? Who's running the SpeedTurn 2.0 on big skis? I've seen the old model on 110 underfoot with no issues. I've had TLT ST10s on Lotus 120s for year, the mount pattern is the same width (with a 5th screw) and I never had an issue...

[phallic-menace]

I'm running speed radicals on 122 renegades. Anyone ever change the vertical release springs to a stiffer spring? Butcher an ft 12 maybe an ion 12?

[adrenalated]

I'm running speed radicals on 122 renegades. Anyone ever change the vertical release springs to a stiffer spring? Butcher an ft 12 maybe an ion 12?

IIRC the difference between a 10 din and 12 din radical is just a washer under the spring.

[zion zig zag]

I've been running a speed turn 2.0 on 116 waist skis for a while no problem. I didn't even know a recommendation for a narrower waist existed. I converted to a B and D top plate and volcano riser and that is the best combo for me.

Did the 2.0 upgrade to the radical toe, is that the difference?

[thewestisthefuture]

Bump for an interesting footnote about the SpeedTurn, this may be specific to the 2.0 version. Found on TelemarkPyrenees, can't find it on Dynafit's website:

"Thanks to the higher torsional rigidity of the baseplate, Dynafit recommend the Speed Turn 2.0 for skis up to 95 mm at the waist - 10 mm more than the earlier model"

Never seen width recommendation explicitly stated before even though it's pretty intuitive that a narrow aluminum base isn't going to be happy with the torque or a massively wide ski.
Interestingly the Superlite 2.0 which doesn't seem to have a wider screw pattern has the same language but with 105 mm wait ski.

Thoughts? Who's running the SpeedTurn 2.0 on big skis? I've seen the old model on 110 underfoot with no issues. I've had TLT ST10s on Lotus 120s for year, the mount pattern is the same width (with a 5th screw) and I never had an issue...

I'm running the speed turn 2.0 with Hojis (112 waist) with no problems. This is the second mount for these bindings, before they were on Voile V8s also 112 underfoot. I use the B & D plates on all my dynafits and love them. I prefer the volcano to the flippy things.