So now Organic Beef is bad??

[babybear]

so mad cow is kinda like typhoid where you can carry it/ cont to spread it even without symptoms? craziness

[glademaster]

Beef in general is bad for you, so you're putting lipstick on that cow if you think it's healthy to eat the beast who spent all of his time in a grassy field. Horrible source of fat. Many studies have been done revealing how cardiac heath deteriorated in various societies during the twentieth century as they switched to a beef diet as they got richer or immigrated to beef consuming countries.

btw, I love a good chunk of cow. In moderation.

Just here to call bullshit on beef being bad for you.

And that mad cow/CJD is some scary ass shit. Wish there was more known about it and it's prevalence in livestock and human populations.

[Benny Profane]

Don't be stupid Benny.

Or at least try not to be?

OK, then tell it to the geniuses at Hahvahd.


http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pre...cer-mortality/

One of many studies. Read Dr. Dean Ornish.
The Japanese virtually had no cardio vascular issues in their society before the turn of the 20th century. When beef was introduced, hello, clogged veins and heart attacks.
There are much healthier sources of protein.
Again, I like me a steak every so often. But not very often.

[Dantheman]

Had an ex who read everything she could on it and what I took away from what she told me is Mad Cow is unlike any other disease. It's like some crystalline life form that has a taste for brains, hollowing them out like swiss cheese and science is currently at a loss to understand it.

Not really. CJD is one of a number of prion diseases that have been identified to date and there are likely more. Also, prion diseases certainly aren't understood to the degree that bacterial or viral diseases are, but they have been studied enough that science has a solid understanding of how they work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/prions/

Beef in general is bad for you, so you're putting lipstick on that cow if you think it's healthy to eat the beast who spent all of his time in a grassy field.

Um, no.

[Benny Profane]

Um, yes. Read the post above.

[Buster Highmen]

My in laws raise cows and they seem happy and healthy until shotgun time without anything but grass and water with some breeze, rain and sunshine thrown in.
So, I'm not going to pass up an opportunity to whip things up into a frothy e-frenzy based on some completely out of context comment madly crowned the Miss Construe Queen of the innert-00bs.
hotcha!

[DBdude]

cjd was confirmed and it wreaked havoc with his brain. crippled him physically as well within 6 mo. of onset. he just disappeared from this world in a cruel manner.

wow - sorry man

I've always had a lot of respect for large animal vets

[Game Over]

It's all about size. Any big crowded feedlot -organic or conventional- is gross.

FWIW I actually just heard some horror stories about some big local organic sheep and goat farms from my shearer this summer. Straight up animal cruelty because they refuse to vaccinate or treat curable and preventable disease and illnesses.

Edit- one farm lost 300 of 500 lambs this spring to internal parasites.

[Dantheman]

so mad cow is kinda like typhoid where you can carry it/ cont to spread it even without symptoms? craziness

It's not contagious in the traditional sense. The only way someone could realistically catch it from you is if they ate your infected brain.

Read Dr. Dean Ornish.

Now that's funny. In regards to the Hahvahd fellas, an associative Hazard Ratio of 1.13 that is based on food frequency questionnaires means absolutely dick.

[PNWbrit]

cjd was confirmed and it wreaked havoc with his brain. crippled him physically as well within 6 mo. of onset. he just disappeared from this world in a cruel manner.

And like you mention... as far as most people are concerned this is shit that only happened across the pond, never in the USofA.

[Benny Profane]

Now that's funny. In regards to the Hahvahd fellas, an associative Hazard Ratio of 1.13 that is based on food frequency questionnaires means absolutely dick.

Elaborate about why you think Ornish's studies are humorous, please.

[babybear]

I don't think nutrition is as much of a homogeneous thing as it used to be- seems these days docs/ researchers are finding that individuals respond to various diets really differently. Some people that eat steak and bacon everyday show no signs of the havoc that that diet would wreak on a different individual.

Sounds like a diet of brain is a bad idea all around though

[Dantheman]

Elaborate about why you think Ornish's studies are humorous, please.

It's not exactly shocking that studies conducted by an outspoken proponent of vegetarian diets find that meat is unhealthy. Forget studies though, just look at some of the foods that his official diet plan considers "Most Healthful":

http://ornishspectrum.com/proven-program/nutrition/
Protein

Egg whites or liquid egg substitutes, Hummus made without oil or Tahini, Soy and soy alternatives: Tofu, Tempeh, Natto, Edemame, Soy hot dogs, Soy fat free sausage, Veggie burgers

Fats/Oils

Fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids), Fat-free non-dairy salad dressings, Non-stick cooking spray, Fat-free margarine spreads


Ultra-processed soy products and fat-free margarine (I don't even want to know what that actually is) are "Most Healthful"? What. The. Fuck. He also considers normal trans-fat laden margarine to be a better choice than butter, and wild salmon is listed in the same healthfulness category as white bread. The central and overriding tenet of his diet is to eat as little fat as possible. Guy is a quack.

[Benny Profane]

Sigh.

That took you a while.

He has devised a way of treating cardio vascular disease with a three prong approach: no fat diet, exercise, and reduction if stress. He has obtained admirable results. This is not a diet for all of us, and, he has said so, although he's a veggie and recommends a low fat no red meat diet.
Of course, you can ignore him and his research, continue eating harmful foods, and wind up on the bypass merry go round in your fifties, as millions do, on the advise from the very profitable non quack medical industry. (Most bypass patients are back in for another procedure within 6-12 months. Ca-ching. That's what he's fighting against)

Have another burger. See you in the ICU. You'll have plenty of company.

[The AD]

The Japanese virtually had no cardio vascular issues in their society before the turn of the 20th century. When beef was introduced, hello, clogged veins and heart attacks.

I would imagine the Japanese were introduced to lots of Western foods at around the same time. How do we know beef was the culprit?

[Dantheman]

He has devised a way of treating cardio vascular disease with a three prong approach: no fat diet, exercise, and reduction if stress. He has obtained admirable results.

The efficacy of those second two prongs is unquestionable, and that's part of his problem. The admirable results he has achieved in controlled trials utilized all 3 interventions and the effects from each confound eachother. I'll concede that his diet is preferable to statination and bypass surgery.

Of course, you can ignore him and his research, continue eating harmful foods, and wind up on the bypass merry go round in your fifties, as millions do

There's the rub, he considers white bread to be healthier choice than meat of any kind and I'm calling bullshit on that. I promise you that if I continue to eat my current diet of mostly meat, eggs, nuts, veggies, fruit and tubers and I need a bypass in my fifties I'll go full vegan and get a tramp stamp that says "Ornish is God".



Threadjack aside, cows need antibiotics when they are fed a diet of grain instead of grass and packed into feedlots. AFAIK "organic" beef doesn't preclude grain-feeding or feedlots.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Result: get 100% grass-fed beef (no grains) from an independent, local producer, and you can be almost certain of receiving beef from healthy animals.

More info: http://www.toplinefoods.com/grass-fe...nic-beef-meat/

Were cows around in the paleolithic?

[hortence]

Because I am a privileged narcissistic white person, I've developed a taste for meat made out of grass. Recently on an extended trip overseas, I had to revert to meat that was made out of meat. It tasted lousy and fucked up my digestion. Coming back to the states, with my certified Yuppie(tm) grass fed beef, I'm back up to snuff.

And if beef was bad for us, what is the evolutionary benefit to making it so damn tasty?

[hortence]

Were cows around in the paleolithic?

Yes.

Or at least cow precursors genetically speaking, as they can widely interbreed.

[hortence]

Made out of meat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tScAyNaRdQ

I am having trouble linking and embedding.

[The AD]

And if beef was bad for us, what is the evolutionary benefit to making it so damn tasty?

It's the cattle's strategy. If they are so tasty we'll all eat too much of them, hence all die off leaving the cattle to thrive. Cattle are very long range evolutionary thinkers.

[adrenalated]

Result: get 100% grass-fed beef (no grains) from an independent, local producer, and you can be almost certain of receiving beef from healthy animals.

It has the additional benefit of being motherfucking tasty. Much more so than grain-fed.

[PNWbrit]

It's the cattle's strategy. If they are so tasty we'll all eat too much of them, hence all die off leaving the cattle to thrive. Cattle are very long range evolutionary thinkers.

Ameglian Major Cow

[Game Over]

Threadjack aside, cows need antibiotics when they are fed a diet of grain instead of grass and packed into feedlots.

Where did you get the idea that grain is the cause for needed antibiotics, it it because of feedlots?? Grass fed can still be fed in a feed lot, they just feed hay instead if grain.

[DougW]

Where did you get the idea that grain is the cause for needed antibiotics, it it because of feedlots?? Grass fed can still be fed in a feed lot, they just feed hay instead if grain.

But would a steer fed on hay actually finish? Would they do that 8 weeks of weight gain on a hay diet? That would have to be some very delicious hay.

Ours that were just grass fed finished very well but they were on some very lush pasture- second growth with lots of alpha.

Lots of people us rumisin ( sp?) which is a probiotic so the steer can be up to a full ration of grain quickly. If going organic you just have to ramp up the grain over a longer period of time.