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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    My 2010 wasn't using oil at quite that rate, but it absolutely used oil from the day I drove it off the lot. According to Subaru, oil consumption up to 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal, so they won't do jack unless you're topping your oil off every time you fill the gas tank.
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Normal or just not excessive?

    I think you'd have trouble finding any manufacturer willing to give you a warranty replacement engine for that.
    I think most car manufacturers have a loophole like that for oil consumption. However, most new or low mileage cars just don't burn or leak any oil, so it never becomes an issue.

    Subaru, OTOH... Mrs. C's Outback consumed almost a quart between changes, and leaked a bit on the garage floor. It had about 20k miles when we bought it from the original owner, a retired guy who lived on a winery.

    Reno Lithia Subaru tried to tell me that I had installed the filter wrong, and that was why it leaked. Also claimed there was no evidence of head gasket problems, though it consumed coolant too. Fuck Subaru and fuck Lithia.

    Sold it with several years of extended warranty left. Let someone else fight with Lithia and Subaru over that shitty car. The replacement - a 2010 Nissan Xterra - has been flawless.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    However, most new or low mileage cars just don't burn or leak any oil, so it never becomes an issue.

    Subaru, OTOH...
    I had two of the series 4 OBs with close to 200k on them total. Neither ever needed oil between regular changes.

    Or coolant.

    Your oil milage may vary... I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Normal or just not excessive?

    I think you'd have trouble finding any manufacturer willing to give you a warranty replacement engine for that.
    Alright, semantically, you're correct, not excessive, but regardless, I had to add a quart between oil changes from the time it was new until the head gaskets went, and now it's 2 quarts per oil change. I didn't want a new engine, just a greater understanding of why this thing has always used a decent amount of oil. I don't particularly mind it, but I would like to know where that oil goes. The replacement cam and crank seals leak slightly now, but before they went, I never once saw oil spotting under the car, or noticed blue exhaust from the tailpipe, but there was 1-1.5 quarts of it disappearing like clockwork.

    I also get heinous piston slap during the first 5 or so minutes of running the engine if it's below 10 degrees out. It sounds like someone masturbating furiously as I idle through the neighborhood in the morning.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Alright, semantically, you're correct
    Quantitatively too.

    I had to add a quart between oil changes
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Your oil milage may vary... I guess.
    Yep. Lots of people love Subaru and have great results. I'm not one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    I would like to know where that oil goes.
    Apparently its the new 2 stroke / 4 stroke hybrid technology.

    That said my brother had a WRX that he drove hard around the hills and mountains of N Cal and it never had any issues.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Quantitatively too.

    I don't think it is "normal" to have to add a quart between oil changes when you're doing them every 4,000 miles. That aside, I'm not here to shit all over Subaru, I just happen to have purchased one that had problems which manifested themselves relatively early in the car's lifespan.

    I still like the car, and it would be challenging to find another car out there that checks all the boxes for me the way my OB does, particularly in my price range. I think it makes more power when it runs like a 2 stroke too.

  8. #158
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    ^^^and there lies the Subaru dilemma. From a quality control and design standpoint, they are pretty much a pile. That said, I own one. Our 2012 Forester was under $20K for an AWD grocery getter that drives like a car with retardedly good resale. I don't think there is much competition is this segment.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    From a quality control
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    I just happen to have purchased one that had problems which manifested themselves relatively early in the car's lifespan..
    Yep.

    My second OBXT needed a warranty replacement engine at 5k miles.

    Mismatched crankshaft/main bearing shell sizes....
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    I don't think it is "normal" to have to add a quart between oil changes when you're doing them every 4,000 miles. That aside, I'm not here to shit all over Subaru, I just happen to have purchased one that had problems which manifested themselves relatively early in the car's lifespan.

    I still like the car, and it would be challenging to find another car out there that checks all the boxes for me the way my OB does, particularly in my price range. I think it makes more power when it runs like a 2 stroke too.
    I've been told by multiple mechanics that the 4 cylinders are still considered "within spec" if they are burning ~1 qt/3000 miles. Mine maintains a constant oil level to ~3000 but if I try to push it any farther, even running synthetic oil starts disappearing.
    "These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"

  11. #161
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    That price sounds high to me. There is regional variance but I was able to get my 2000 head gaskets, seals, and header remilled for $1800 are they remilling your headers? Which gasket will they use? Make sure they have a reputation for good service.
    Someone once told me that I ski like a Scandinavian angel.

  12. #162
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    On the other side, I have a 2015 outback now and no issues at 3.5k but ask again at the end of the season. Insurance goes up and car payments suck. On the other hard, I look more like a soccer mom or hipster now and less like a mag. I recommend the 2008/9 outback/legacy xt and start complaining about having a turbo while having a turbo. That will be the greatest and worst decision ever.
    Someone once told me that I ski like a Scandinavian angel.

  13. #163
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    bump.
    those complaining about the oil leak, google something like "class action subaru synthetic oil". it has to do with the zero weight synthetic oil that was used at least from '10-'14. supposedly, toyota and honda will be getting pulled into it, too.

    2000 legacy wagon w/ ~$125k is about the kick the bucket. head gasket leaking, differential leaking (onto the exhaust and catalytic converter), one cv joint is toast, knocking is getting worst, and engine light is consistently coming on for a misfire in the 4th cylinder (i've never noticed the misfire). multi-yr indie mechanic strongly suggests vehicle replacement over immediate repairs becauseof the uncertainty of cost and longevity related to the knocking and cylinder warning. <sigh>

    my need:
    -capacity/width for 5 passengers and medium lab-sized dog (i have 3 young kids; we have a minivan, too)
    -reliability/longevity
    -awd/4wd for dirt roads (i live on one), nearby USFS "trails", and frequent winter mtn driving (if it ever snows again in CA)
    -more clearance than the old legacy
    -ability to haul heavy stuff (firewood) and lumber
    -mileage as good or better than current subi (it's a 2.5L 4-cylinder)

    a geek friend has strongly suggested the 2015 outback and the mechanics suggest '10-'12 outback, preferably ones that didn't come with synth oil. i've also thought about ridgeline, rav4, crv, highlander, 4-dr pick-up. cars/suv's i've had extended experience with: 88 4runner 2-dr (drove a lot for 8 yrs), older model honda accords, old model nissan altima, nissan sentra, gen 1 and 2 isuzu trooper ii, and early model ford explorer. liked the gen1 trooper, 4runner, altima, and current subi the most.

    base model 2015 outback is ~$26k and most available are non-base model for $30-36k. i'm seeing older ('10-'12) used (dealer-sales) at ~$20-24k. the 2015 outback sounds like it has a pretty incredible awd/off road system for a wagon, especially compared to the rav4, crv, highlander, and ridgeline. anybody know if that functionality was changed from the '10-14 outback generation? my current thought is a base model 2015 outback with aftermarket towing stuff (small trailer for hauling), and some items to keep from getting stranded during the summer (e.g. real skid plates, good rubber). i'm intrigued by a 4-dr taco or 4runner, but the $$ (even used) looks like a killer. it's hard for me to stomach the thought of a brand new car.

    i'm looking for ideas and suggestions.
    cheers

  14. #164
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    I'm currently putting a new short block in my 02. Fun stuff. I bought it remanufactured from the Subaru dealer for 2k with a factory 3/36k mile warranty (not including in and out of course)- I figure it is 4 months a payments on a new car and I have my money back - but my car runs good (save for burning oil) and is sound otherwise. I'd have it done but I had to take it back to them this weekend to put a heli-coil in one of the engine mount holes in the block which they happily did for me. Turbo head gaskets going on again (first time I just did the headgaskets without changing the short block). Head gaskets and everything took (and I had the heads ground and pressure tested) but oil consumption didn't get better so I figure stuck oil rings and time to change the motor before my cats plug up.

    4-Runners are great but they burn a bunch of gas in the winter with a box. I know because I own one. Otherwise bomber.

    2010-2012 Some Outbacks had a problem with lack of lubrication in the 6 speed manual transmission and they were recalled so some people avoid those. 2010-2014's are all ugly. 2012 on gets rid of the timing belt and the FB engine but then there is that pesky oil ring problem that some people complain about.

  15. #165
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    So my neighbor offered me his 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 xt with 90,000 miles for $9,000.

    Bluebooks:
    Edmunds $5,500
    NADA $7,700
    Kelley $10,000
    Comparables local $12-13 asking

    Not sure how there could be sucha big spread.
    Can decide if this is a gift or no.
    No timing belt done, probably needs spark plugs.

    Lifetime trip computer says only 17.1mpg, that’s pretty weak.
    250 horsepower though.

    Opinions?

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    So my neighbor offered me his 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 xt with 90,000 miles for $9,000.

    Bluebooks:
    Edmunds $5,500
    NADA $7,700
    Kelley $10,000
    Comparables local $12-13 asking

    Not sure how there could be sucha big spread.
    Can decide if this is a gift or no.
    No timing belt done, probably needs spark plugs.

    Lifetime trip computer says only 17.1mpg, that’s pretty weak.
    250 horsepower though.

    Opinions?
    That is not cheap. It's an old car that needs a timing belt plus whatever else. If you live where Subi's are irrationally adored then have at it.

    Edit - I don't hate Subaru but they are vastly overrated.
    Last edited by oldblue; 02-18-2015 at 07:01 PM. Reason: add content

  17. #167
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    So my neighbor offered me his 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 xt with 90,000 miles for $9,000.
    Opinions?(quote)

    In my experience, Subaru 2.5 engines start dying at around 100,000 miles. Busted water pump, radiator, head gaskets, cracked engine. That was the chain of events for my Subie. At 115,000 miles, the mechanic told me I needed a new engine or a new car. A friend with a 2005 XT had to change the Turbo every 35,000 miles. $9,000 is too high.

  18. #168
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    I'd correct the above and say turbo 2.5's get scary around 100k.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by polenta View Post
    A friend with a 2005 XT had to change the Turbo every 35,000 miles.
    Your friend does not know how to drive a turbo.
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

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  20. #170
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    the reality of car payments on a $25k car have settled, and i'm pretty certain that we are not buying a used subi. Compromises and drastically different alternatives are being mulled. What are peoples experiences with Rav4's between 100k and 250k miles? is there a good online source for researching that sort of information? or should I be bumping the rav4 thread in the padded room?

  21. #171
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    I'd be looking at review sites or Rav forums if that's what fits your need. Or even way better, asking your mechanic what he likes. The one you gifted with a 12v'er of the local premium micro brew at Christmas. You're looking at cars 100k plus. I've watched the odometer turn 100k on 10 or 11 cars. This is what I've seen. They all needed a timing belt, water pump, radiator, head gasket, Cat converter, or something at about that time. Buy one your mechanic likes that just had something big replaced. Or be prepared to fix it and don't put it off. Ask me how I know. Or see this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by polenta View Post
    In my experience, Subaru 2.5 engines start dying at around 100,000 miles. Busted water pump, radiator, head gaskets, cracked engine. That was the chain of events for my Subie. At 115,000 miles, the mechanic told me I needed a new engine or a new car. A friend with a 2005 XT had to change the Turbo every 35,000 miles. $9,000 is too high.
    Right now I have a 2002 Outback with 115,000 miles. Just did $2000 worth of head gasket/timing belt/water pump. But I stole it for $1800 so I'm 1 for 10 or 11.
    Last edited by wooley12; 02-21-2015 at 03:00 AM.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  22. #172
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post

    my need:
    -capacity/width for 5 passengers and medium lab-sized dog (i have 3 young kids; we have a minivan, too)
    -reliability/longevity
    -awd/4wd for dirt roads (i live on one), nearby USFS "trails", and frequent winter mtn driving (if it ever snows again in CA)
    -more clearance than the old legacy
    -ability to haul heavy stuff (firewood) and lumber
    -mileage as good or better than current subi (it's a 2.5L 4-cylinder)

    a geek friend has strongly suggested the 2015 outback and the mechanics suggest '10-'12 outback, preferably ones that didn't come with synth oil. i've also thought about ridgeline, rav4, crv, highlander, 4-dr pick-up. cars/suv's i've had extended experience with: 88 4runner 2-dr (drove a lot for 8 yrs), older model honda accords, old model nissan altima, nissan sentra, gen 1 and 2 isuzu trooper ii, and early model ford explorer. liked the gen1 trooper, 4runner, altima, and current subi the most.

    i'm looking for ideas and suggestions.
    cheers
    You are probably going to want to prioritize your list of wants. Right now kind of reads like the dream car to me (ie - great interior space, great gas mileage, ground clearance).

    With 3 kids you probably want to define minimum back seat width for car seats etc. Do you need to fit 3 car seats? In anything less than a mid-size crossover or wagon it is really hard to do if not impossible.

    Something with good seating for 5 is probably not going to hit your gas mileage requirement if you also want the ground clearance.

    In the used market the condition of the vehicle you are looking at is more important than overall model reliability.

    Off hand though, a used Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, or similar with tick your interior space and ground clearance requirements but won't hit your gas mileage target. The Rav4 you mention will be tough for 3 in the back. I've put 2 car seats in the in-laws 2010 model and it doesn't leave much room for a 3rd passenger.

    New - the Outback is certainly a good value if it is big enough inside for you.

  23. #173
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    Thanks. Especially regarding backseat space and car seats.

  24. #174
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    w/ highlander and pilot, anybody have input on mileage longevity and repairs. what can be expected in the 100k-250k mileage range? is there a good online resource with this type of information? my experience is that this type of information is scattered around the internet, but not in a comprehensive way.

    ime, i only find information if i know of a specific problem, like the oil burning problem on 2010-2014 oubacks, tranni rebuild on 22re, head gaskets on the past 20yrs-worth of subis, etc, but you need a base level of knowledge to find this stuff out.

    cheers

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    and engine light is consistently coming on for a misfire in the 4th cylinder (i've never noticed the misfire). multi-yr indie mechanic strongly suggests vehicle replacement over immediate repairs becauseof the uncertainty of cost and longevity related to the knocking and cylinder warning. <sigh>
    I realize you're looking for new car ideas but in the meantime have the spark plug wires been changed. I was having misfires, two mechanics found nothing wrong--it wasn't misfiring when they looked at it--but I had the second one change the wires, problem gone. Cheap fix if it works. I guess coil pack is the other common cause.

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