Pay $2,300 for head gasket on '09 ~105k Legacy or buy new car?

[jono]

I took it to the dealer and they also made some comment about "seepage due to your local oil change guy not using a standard Subaru filter".

I hope you punched that man in the face. Oil filters have the single simplest seal in the world so I guess even Subaru should be able to manage a decent one, but come on. "Hello kettle? This is Subaru. You leak."

[climbgoon]

$2300 ? I wonder how much a rebuilt ENgine would cost and just replace the whole motor, Could be less work in the long run and you would have a new motor

[RShea]

I would look at the book value of the vehicle, time and price of doing the head gasket (local guy that sounds really busy estimate/quote), and like climbgoon states, price out replacement rebuilt engine that could be dropped in. If the labor on the rebuilt is any savings, then you may have a better resell value if you do want to dump the vehicle due to the age and increased repair costs start mounting. Also depending on the engine and how bad the head gaskets are- there is some stuff called Steel Seal that can do head gasket wonders (know of at least 1 high mileage car that it helped from having a replacement engine or tare down of the existing engine and no longer overheats.)

[Mr brownstone]

Had a Subaru before and it was as expensive to maintain as our other car (a BMW). Sounds like a slippery slope here.

Dump the Ru and look at a Mazda CX-5 or CRV or something used in your price range with less than 30K miles. Kinda "Mom" cars but who gives a rats ass if you're hauling kids?

hauling kids or gear. a crv or mx-5 are way more utilitarian than any small sedan.

and the crv has a timing chain, so take timing belt replacement(s) out of the equation. just change the oil every 4k or so to keep the chain lubed well.

3 honda's thus far. no oil leaks to 200k+ when i moved onto the next one.

[fatnslow]

Try looking on Craigslist for home based mechanics that specialize in Subaru head gasket repair. Some guys advertise around here(Portland) around $1200-1500 with water pump and timing belt. I think techs that are good on them can replace them in about 5-6 hours.

[Chugachjed]

I'm no great mechanic and I can do head gaskets/timing belt on a SOHC suby in 5-6 hours no problem

[skysos]

$5K for a 5-year old vehicle is pretty bad. For your next you might want to consider something with a little better residual value, regardless of brand. 4 of the top 5 from 2014 are great ski vehicles:

#1 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser: 70% (discontinued next year, but a solid choice if you like the style)
#2 2014 Toyota Tacoma: 61.9% (truck, so probably not what you are looking for)
#3 2014 Jeep Wrangler: 59.1% (Maybe?)
#4 2014 Toyota 4Skinner: 56.2% (Yes!)

So your $25K Legacy is worth about $10K in good condition now -- only 40%. Not good, but fairly typical. I would at least look at the top 10 best residual values, which give a fairly good measure of reliability and longevity. I do stay away from Honda due to bad experiences with 2 different cars -- a '99 CR-V and 2003 Civic, but if that is your thing the 2014 CR-V is at #8 on the list at 50.7%.

[milton]

What a timely thread. My 09 Impreza with 103K just blew a head gasket. I haven't got an estimate for the work yet and it is still due for timing belt replacement.

[uglymoney]

What a timely thread. My 09 Impreza with 103K just blew a head gasket. I haven't got an estimate for the work yet and it is still due for timing belt replacement.

TIming belt, waterpump, pulleys are half of the job so that is a perfect time to have a blown head gasket.

[MontuckyFried]

$5K for a 5-year old vehicle is pretty bad. For your next you might want to consider something with a little better residual value, regardless of brand. 4 of the top 5 from 2014 are great ski vehicles:

#1 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser: 70% (discontinued next year, but a solid choice if you like the style)
#2 2014 Toyota Tacoma: 61.9% (truck, so probably not what you are looking for)
#3 2014 Jeep Wrangler: 59.1% (Maybe?)
#4 2014 Toyota 4Skinner: 56.2% (Yes!)

So your $25K Legacy is worth about $10K in good condition now -- only 40%. Not good, but fairly typical. I would at least look at the top 10 best residual values, which give a fairly good measure of reliability and longevity. I do stay away from Honda due to bad experiences with 2 different cars -- a '99 CR-V and 2003 Civic, but if that is your thing the 2014 CR-V is at #8 on the list at 50.7%.

No. He just needs to sell it in Bozeman, where people seem to want almost the price of a new one for a 10 year old Outback with 250,000 miles, blown head gaskets, doggie-chewed up cloth seats, and complete with Coexist and other misc stickers for added value. This is the reason I went with a Volvo wagon instead, although I'll surely pay dearly for it later. It was still far cheaper than an older Subaru...at least initially.

[Mr brownstone]

TIming belt, waterpump, pulleys are half of the job so that is a perfect time to have a blown head gasket.

not if he replaced that stuff at 80k.

[Bobcat Sig]

No. He just needs to sell it in Bozeman, where people seem to want almost the price of a new one for a 10 year old Outback with 250,000 miles, blown head gaskets, doggie-chewed up cloth seats, and complete with Coexist and other misc stickers for added value. This is the reason I went with a Volvo wagon instead, although I'll surely pay dearly for it later. It was still far cheaper than an older Subaru...at least initially.

You can also include that with Toyotas. I was blown away with what I sold my Land Cruiser for last week ...

[MontuckyFried]

You can also include that with Toyotas. I was blown away with what I sold my Land Cruiser for last week ...

Haha. I bet. Used Subaru and Toyota prices in Bozeman are straight retarded. I think I'll be shopping out of state next time around.

[uglymoney]

not if he replaced that stuff at 80k.

He said in the post it needs a timing belt. Service interval is 105k.

I bought my Subaru new because I couldn't get a deal on a used one so the resale value is fine if you don't get hosed by a dealer.

[Harry]

1) Bozeman/Big Sky mags buy OP's Subaru for $5K. ($1K each from B-Sig, Austin, Bunion, Climber Joe, and myself)
2) new head gaskets for $2,300
3) sell in Bozeman for $17,000
4) PROFIT !

[Mr brownstone]

He said in the post it needs a timing belt. Service interval is 105k.

I bought my Subaru new because I couldn't get a deal on a used one so the resale value is fine if you don't get hosed by a dealer.

Thanx for clarifying. My bad

[MontuckyFried]

1) Bozeman/Big Sky mags buy OP's Subaru for $5K. ($1K each from B-Sig, Austin, Bunion, Climber Joe, and myself)
2) new head gaskets for $2,300
3) sell in Bozeman for $17,000
4) PROFIT !

That's a solid investment plan, yo! I like it! Maybe we can make that our big new start up: Cash4Subarus! Just like the gold creeps, but more pet friendly!

[AdironRider]

That's a solid investment plan, yo! I like it! Maybe we can make that our big new start up: Cash4Subarus! Just like the gold creeps, but more pet friendly!

For the first couple years I lived in Jackson I would fly home in the spring, buy a hoopty Subaru from some broke as college kid in Burlington, fix it up just enough to make it back here to Jackson, then sell it for anywhere between 3-4x what I paid for it back East. Even calling them valley cars, I was still getting serious coin. I would buy these for like a grand and sell em for close to 5, even after a plane ticket, travel back, and and average of about 300 or so in new parts Id replace myself, it wasn't bad money for effectively a weeks work.

Now that I have a real job, flying back East and 5 day, prayer filled drives back in clapped out Subarus are behind me, but I did make enough for a down payment on a house in Victor so that was neat.

[ts01]

What did you decide Jonathan?

I hesitate to give economic advice to an economist or parenting advice to a parent. But on the internetz I am an expert on everthing.

So, thoughts from having 6 Subaru's and 1 Honda CRV in the family over the last ten years or so:

-- There are significant cost savings in running older cars: slower depreciation and lower insurance costs. The depreciation is harder to quantify but the insurance costs are quite evident. Rates drop with older cars and when mine hit 8 years old or so I drop collision coverage. Those savings pay for a lot of maintenance.

-- On the other hand you've got two imperfect old cars and one perfect family. Whatever your head says about the economic rationale for running the old cars forever, your heart may have a stronger emotional rationale for putting the wife and kid in a newer and more reliable vehicle when you're on family trips. Or when you're off frolicking in the mountains and they're on their own.

-- IMHO there are two sweet spots for buying (or owning) 4-cylinder Subarus: (1) new and warranteed; (2) old, not rusted, and documented fix of head gasket + timing belts + many other things by prior owner. You're not in either position.

-- If you reasonably anticipate keeping the car another 3 years or so then it makes sense to sink another $2,300 (i.e., be the prior owner whose investment you keep driving). $2300 is about the going dealership rate for this work. Last spring we had to do the head gasket etc. (timing belt, water pump) on on my daughter's 06 Impreza; dealership in Boston wanted $2,300, but more convenient and more trusted local mechanic in Cambridge did if for $2,200. (As others noted you can definitely save by ordering up the parts yourself, check out Continental timing belt kits on eBay or Amazon, but you want the pricier one which includes the water pump, not the lower cost kid without the pump.)

-- How did this get so long with no Audi threadjack?

[neufox47]

New car, mainly because they can keep you and the family out of accidents and reduce injuries If you get into one.

[JonnyMo]

I have a 1998 Subaru Outback that now has 263,000 miles. It blew it's head gasket at around 150,000 miles. I looked at putting in a rebuilt engine or having my engine fixed. It turned out that my short block needed replacing, and the price between the dealer and an independent shop were about the same. Mostly because the independent shop would have to get the short block from the dealer.

So I had the dealer do the work. And part of the reason was that I could get a free loaner car, and the dealer was just a few blocks from my work, where my overheated car was at. I think the price was around $3500.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone for the rebuilt engine, which would have given me rebuilt heads and valves. I also had to ask the dealer to replace the oil and water pumps. Otherwise, they were going to leave the old ones in. I did wander around the showroom and saw the new Forester XT turbo, that just came out. Maybe I should have traded up to that.

I wish I had replaced the alternator, at the time. A year later, it gave out going up the Coquihalla Highway, on my way to Revelstoke. It was an expensive tow back to Hope, in the middle of a snowstorm, for a new alternator.

I'd also replace the CV joints. They always go out when there has been a big dump of new snow.

And now I just spent more money for a new timing belt, brakes...

I do love the car. But, now, I need a more reliable machine so I can get to the good and back to work. So I'm looking at the new 2015 Forester XT turbo. If I had a wife and kids, I'd get the new car just for the reliability and better safety.

[Mr brownstone]

putting that much coin or even half that much coin into a singer sewing machine of a car with 150k?

Vibes bro.

[wooley12]

200 already and still the same old. You sound like my father.

[Jonathan S.]

What did you decide Jonathan?

Wait, what do I have to do with any of this?
Oh, right, I started this thread.
Anyway, I actually have been reading all of this along the way, and have enjoyed all the commentary, technical explanations, advice, etc.
I especially like the entrepreneurship in turning one person's old junk into another person's valuable fixed-up car, since Grandpa S. got his start in this country via a variation on that theme.
Not interested though in any of the alternative AWD suggestions, since both my wife and I prefer sedans, although I suspect that eventually the replacement for my Legacy sedan will be a Legacy Outback once we start carpooling for skiing with our daughter's nearby cousins ... although for now their 100cm xc skis don't take up much space:






The Barbie dolls for the apres ski also fit into a sedan easily:





Anyway, we bought a new car in the midst of my prior posting.
The alternatives were:
- pay ~$2,300 for the head gasket work
vs.
- buy a new car and get $5,000 for the old car plus (via my negotiation) not have to pay the ~$400 for the work that had already been done to replace the radiator
The other factor was that the new Impreza was surprisingly roomy in the passenger compartment, with more leg room than in our old Legacy sedans.
(Probably narrower, but no widebody family members.)
Trunk is smaller than the Legacy, but we never max out the trunk on trips with my wife's car.
We were also able to order a relatively bare bones Impreza (although I'm morally disappointed in the heated seats) that was still up for grabs at the distribution facility.
Perhaps I'd reach a different financial conclusion if I subjected this to the same financial scrutiny as in my consulting practice, but the deciding factor was an aversion to having both cars being prone to sudden repair needs.

Also, just for the record:

So your $25K Legacy is worth about $10K in good condition now -- only 40%. Not good, but fairly typical.

Was actually $21.6 (exclusive of tax).
The new Impreza was ~$800 less than that (despite five-and-a-half years of inflation).

[JonnyMo]

Jonathan,

Good decision. Those girls deserve a safer and more reliable car.

I'm curious, what snow tires are you planning on running on your new Subaru? When I get my new Forester XT, I'm thinking of the Nokian WRG3 for the PNW.

And as we head into fall, the first storm just hit the PNW. My new Dynafit TLT6 Mountain ski boots just arrived, to replace the TLT6 Performance boots that were just way to stiff for me.