Enough of Park City, time to flame one wasatch

[bigdude2468]

I don't get how they'll make out? In the pass sharing/ticket sharing thing? On beers at Goldminer's? They have hardly any extra amenities to offer - I don't see how that will get them more revenue unless they are banking on a significant increase in "One" tickets from tourists. You and I will still be buying our passes as always and drinking beer in the parking lot, right?

Upon further review we have no damn idea who makes out when we don't know how the lift tickets will work. If I am in PC what does it cost me to ski at the Bird? Do I have to pay to ride the Brighton / Solitude and Alta chairs to get to Snowbird? If this turns out to be an all resort ticket for $150 or more than no way. The AltaBird is about a 25% upcharge, it can't be that much for each additional area or its dead in the water. Maybe they think they can charge $130 or more for an all area pass and with 25% more skiers coming to Utah because of this they all make a pile of money. Personally I have never thought the AltaBird makes a lot of sense. If I want to ski the Bird or Alta I would just buy a ticket there and ski it for the day and go to the other area the next day. Sounds like at this point The Canyons is left out but if they do get control of PCMR you have two resorts to ski with the Epic. I can't see many skiers in PC with an Epic for $600 paying an additional $130 or more to jump canyons when they have such a great deal and two resorts.

[bigdude2468]

BTW, Alta only makes out with lift tickets and lunch / snacks at the Albion Day Lodge which they will run for the first time this season and the two on mountain restaurants, Watson's and Alf's. Alta does not own the Goldminer's.

[Swine]

True and true. I've tried to comprehensively ski both areas before, you can't, it's a waste of time and money. Didn't know that Goldminer's was separate either.

[glademaster]

True and true. I've tried to comprehensively ski both areas before, you can't, it's a waste of time and money. Didn't know that Goldminer's was separate either.

Alta Ski Lift Company does not own any lodging in LCC. All of the lodges are independently owned by people who tragically misunderstood the concept of working seasonally to maximize ski time.

[Buster Highmen]

I'm speaking a BCC skier who doesn't like the idea of easier access to the terrain in Honeycomb. .

OK......

[Buster Highmen]

I didn't say MORE popular, it is very popular, but has terrain traps and areas that keep more of the gumbys out it seems. As opposed to say some areas in Big Cottonwood.

So it's not as popular as a lot of other spots, which was the rationale for the statement.

Does Alta actually own a bunch of GG ?

THose guys didn't get rich and powerful by fighting the good fight, but all the best.

[skifishbum]

The lift layout makes more sense than the last rendition.
That said, is the plan really going to drop people off up on Fantasy Ridge?

For those of you who have a cheesesteak in all this, consider the best positioning of these lifts to protect your favorite hiking and then require those areas never be lift served for your support.
It would be nice if Powerline and Silver Fork got preserved at a minimum.

you know me i'm gonna go attempt to ski sumthin good every day requardless of where they put lifts , so are most of the people that i know,
sometimes i do carry chessecake in that overloaded pack
if i gotta get up a little earlier for untracked or go a little farther.
no big 1st wurld real problem there
i really don't know anyone who would consider grizzly gulch prime backcountry, altas snowcats, powder turds, bootpacking skittlethugs, wasatch mountain club geratric snowshoers, avvy class and instructers,
decent high avvy danger sidecountry perhaps but primes a push so is backcountry
imo all the area involved is and has been sidecountry for the past decade at the least.
all i really want is some sort of real transportation solutions discussion or planning involving removing the need for the insane amount of vehicular traffic in the canyons,. if these could also help the lcc open safely sooner and allow me to turn left on 9600 on pow days bonus points.

$10 a car or a hundy or so for a yearly pass
raise the ciggie tax like ya did to rebuild I-15
lodging tax
figure out how to fund it and make it happen

[Bunion 2020]

That is the funny thing about this entire idea. It isn't really about good skiing or good terrain it is about the Faux-Euro experience of traversing all over the Wasatch and maybe getting some turns in by accident.

There is such a thing as too big to experience on one ticket in one day and if the price is > $100.00 per day, is that really worth the expense unless you are a tourist?

[glademaster]

That is the funny thing about this entire idea. It isn't really about good skiing or good terrain it is about the Faux-Euro experience of traversing all over the Wasatch and maybe getting some turns in by accident.

There is such a thing as too big to experience on one ticket in one day and if the price is > $100.00 per day, is that really worth the expense unless you are a tourist?

No, it isn't worth it, even for tourists, as has been proven with AltaBird and SolBright. All 4 of those mountains provide more than enough to fill a day. What if they build all these connecting lifts and hardly anyone buys the pass? There would be some serious schadenfreude amongst the naysayers to see those chairs swinging empty because the fatheads thought anyone would spend $150/day to ski resort snow.

Although this might be a way to rack up a day "skiing" while spending 6.5/7 hours sitting on your ass on a chairlift, so that holds some tourist appeal.

[raisingarizona13]

No, it isn't worth it, even for tourists, as has been proven with AltaBird and SolBright. All 4 of those mountains provide more than enough to fill a day. What if they build all these connecting lifts and hardly anyone buys the pass? There would be some serious schadenfreude amongst the naysayers to see those chairs swinging empty because the fatheads thought anyone would spend $150/day to ski resort snow.

Although this might be a way to rack up a day "skiing" while spending 6.5/7 hours sitting on your ass on a chairlift, so that holds some tourist appeal.

Most people on vacation don't ski one day. Once again, I think a lot of you are missing the potential experience that is envisioned. I doubt the whole thing will cost much over a single area pass but these are the little kinks that would have to be ironed out. I'm guessing it's just a concept or idea right now.

I could see people spending a day at one hill then moving over to the next to spend the night at a lodge or whatever. This could continue for 5+ days. It could also be sweet for 3 days. Or, as a tourist you could stay at Solitude like a base camp and bounce back and forth between the resorts. This of course is only if the passes for the interconnect were on par with the resort passes and for season pass holders a reasonable option for interconnect was available as well.

If the passes were to be 50 bones over a regular pass then I fully agree with you, it's a shit idea and only for the most wealthy. This would be a real fucked up use of public lands. That would in a way be privatizing public lands that all bc users had access to and fucking over the regular guy. In some ways ski areas already do that. That is the point that to me makes the best argument against the idea.

[Buster Highmen]

all i really want is some sort of real transportation solutions discussion or planning involving removing the need for the insane amount of vehicular traffic in the canyons,. ... figure out how to fund it and make it happen

^^^this^^^

[creaky fossil]

typical idiots, turn blind eye to "development" if it suits their aesthetic, and then when the "development" yields what "development" always yields (crowds, pollution, crowds, and pollution) insists that there must be SOMETHING DONE to alleviate the CROWDS AND POLLUTION

irie rasta dog, clueless king of the intellectual gaper ski bum-ish caste

[skifishbum]

best head back to the gapic ski psia ego fluffoff you the brownstoned roj and dickwhackininpa got goin creekers your winnin but only by a narrow margin

[creaky fossil]

puff tuff, oh clouded mind

[Vets]

You don't have to wait for One Wasatch to happen.
For $325 you can ski 4-6 resorts in one day:
http://www.skiutah.com/explore/the-interconnect-tour
At first this sounds a little pricey, but it does include lunch, transporation (to or from) and guides.
Has anyone here experienced this tour?
It sounds like less effort than the day I skied 6 different Tahoe resorts by driving between the resorts.

[wra]

Done four in a day a number of times when I had a pass at Alta. Only cost was a shot in the dark at Louie's to start the day and sometimes, one ride at Brighton.
Longest walk is to the Crest from Solitude.
Don't really need no lifts, especially in Grizzly. What happened to the anti Flagstaff crowd? Fast asleep?
As for easing the traffic congestion in Big And Little, try fixing the ski bus system. It is currently broke.

[pvars]

"Now the experience I was thinking of would be to ski all day at the Bird, stay in Alta that night then ski most of the day at Alta, head over to Solitude and stay a night. Next day maybe blast through Brighton, go for a lap in the cirque then head over to Park City for a last night blow out. Maybe take a cab to loop back around and pick up my car or ride to the airport. That sounds cool to me but again, I don't live there but this is how some people from out of state are seeing this thing.

A back pack with one set of cloths to change into is all I would need. Basically I would be touring, connecting one bar to the next."

I'm no ski executive, but I am guessing that you are not the target demo. The people Ski Utah probably wants to attract are affluent families from outside the Rocky Mountain region willing to drop a lot of dough on lodging, food, lift tickets, ski lessons, ski clothes, souvenirs, photography, etc. Those kinds of people don't want to change hotels every night, hauling all their multiple luggage items, with kids, with the uncertainty of a lost reservation, etc. - just on skis. I've got kids, I used to do ski vacations from the midwest, no fucking way that I would do that vacation. Would there be a hand full of people who think its cool? Of course. For Ski Utah this is marketing the big statistics. Go look at their web page: "18,000 acres, 100 lifts, 1 pass". They think that will drive visitation growth. Utah is a great ski destination for affluent midwest families, but for some reason Ski Utah can't sell it. Does it have something to do with the perception that our liquor laws suck and the state is filled with ultra right wing religious zealots? Yes, it does. Well, that perception will be difficult to change, so lets put up some big numbers.

It's a bad strategy, it won't work and we will sacrifice undeveloped mountain terrain for it. No thanks.

[raisingarizona13]

"Now the experience I was thinking of would be to ski all day at the Bird, stay in Alta that night then ski most of the day at Alta, head over to Solitude and stay a night. Next day maybe blast through Brighton, go for a lap in the cirque then head over to Park City for a last night blow out. Maybe take a cab to loop back around and pick up my car or ride to the airport. That sounds cool to me but again, I don't live there but this is how some people from out of state are seeing this thing.

A back pack with one set of cloths to change into is all I would need. Basically I would be touring, connecting one bar to the next."

I'm no ski executive, but I am guessing that you are not the target demo. The people Ski Utah probably wants to attract are affluent families from outside the Rocky Mountain region willing to drop a lot of dough on lodging, food, lift tickets, ski lessons, ski clothes, souvenirs, photography, etc. Those kinds of people don't want to change hotels every night, hauling all their multiple luggage items, with kids, with the uncertainty of a lost reservation, etc. - just on skis. I've got kids, I used to do ski vacations from the midwest, no fucking way that I would do that vacation. Would there be a hand full of people who think its cool? Of course. For Ski Utah this is marketing the big statistics. Go look at their web page: "18,000 acres, 100 lifts, 1 pass". They think that will drive visitation growth. Utah is a great ski destination for affluent midwest families, but for some reason Ski Utah can't sell it. Does it have something to do with the perception that our liquor laws suck and the state is filled with ultra right wing religious zealots? Yes, it does. Well, that perception will be difficult to change, so lets put up some big numbers.

It's a bad strategy, it won't work and we will sacrifice undeveloped mountain terrain for it. No thanks.

Good point. But there could be a new market created.......maybe. If you had that valet service moving your luggage around the family tourists might buy it. Who knows, this is all speculation really. Even if they came but didn't use the full interconnect the hype alone would bring in enough #s that the ski areas will buy into the whole thing. The pass thing is the big question in my mind, if it's not affordable and reasonable than the whole thing is shit really.

[Bromontana]

^ true although Park City draws a respectable 1.8 mil+ in annual days. That includes all three backside resorts and seems to reflect a pretty damn successful overall operation.

That said I agree culture is a headwind for driving up out of state visits. Potentially more so going forward than in the past with the Colorado craft beer/green scene and essentially the same thing developing along the west coast.

[Greydon Clark]

That said I agree culture is a headwind for driving up out of state visits. Potentially more so going forward than in the past with the Colorado craft beer/green scene and essentially the same thing developing along the west coast.

For real. No one likes asking the guy working the parking lot for dope.

[bl2000]

"Ski Utah this is marketing the big statistics. Go look at their web page: "18,000 acres, 100 lifts, 1 pass". They think that will drive visitation growth. Utah is a great ski destination for affluent midwest families, but for some reason Ski Utah can't sell it. Does it have something to do with the perception that our liquor laws suck and the state is filled with ultra right wing religious zealots? Yes, it does. Well, that perception will be difficult to change, so lets put up some big numbers. It's a bad strategy, it won't work and we will sacrifice undeveloped mountain terrain for it. No thanks.

You can't look at One Wasatch in a vacuum. I'm not sure it'll be bad in the long run, especially for the majority of skiers (who stay on-piste and, secondarily, sidecountry). Yes, BC skiing will suffer. Duh!

Utah is getting more progressive and the Mormon influence is slowly eroding. Booze isn't hard to get -- being limited to 3.2 beer on tap does suck, though. The possibility is Vail will one day buy Solitude (since Boyne choked) and turn it into the equivalent of their Utah Blue Sky Basin. The $300,000 per year and up Snowbird demographic will appreciate it. And it will certainly help fill the under-utilized Solitude infrastructure.

[raisingarizona13]

I'm still having a hard time with the sky is falling mentality but if the worst that has been mentioned of possible outcomes becomes true than I will stand corrected. I think that as long as the different user groups that use the areas around the connections voice their concerns strongly enough some good compromises could be made. That and securing that the shared pass system could actually work, wouldn't become unattainable for the regular working wo/man skier and only something that the wealthy can enjoy I don't see too much of an issue. Then again, I feel no connection to the Grizzly Gulch bc skiing area but that's just me. I don't see there being much of a problem having some sort of easement under the Grizzly ski lift and through the bottom of one or two ski runs to get out into the "back country" if you can even call it that. But seriously, has it had a real back country feel in those quickly accessed areas for the past 10+ years? Every time I visit LCC I am in disbelief at the circus and urban feeling ski thing that is going on. You can't hide from the fact that the whole area sits right next to a major urban populace. Calling the bc experience there pure is far from what I would call it. Sure, there are places to get away from all of that maybe but it's not where these connections are. This is why after seeing and visiting/living in many different areas I kind of feel that if a Euro connect is going to happen somewhere in the US it could/should happen there.

[raisingarizona13]

^ true although Park City draws a respectable 1.8 mil+ in annual days. That includes all three backside resorts and seems to reflect a pretty damn successful overall operation.

That said I agree culture is a headwind for driving up out of state visits. Potentially more so going forward than in the past with the Colorado craft beer/green scene and essentially the same thing developing along the west coast.

I don't think the key demo-graph that spends the big $ gives a shit about liquor laws or weed shops. College kids maybe but those kids don't spend much beyond the bars and weed shops.

[Greydon Clark]

I don't think the key demo-graph that spends the big $ gives a shit about liquor laws or weed shops. College kids maybe but those kids don't spend much beyond the bars and weed shops.

You have no data to support this.

[raisingarizona13]

You have no data to support this.

Neither do you. It's all speculation.