Tales of the Dead Coming Back: How Modern Medicine Is Reinventing Death

[DasBlunt]

NATGEO published her book, "Glimpsing Heaven". She is a journalist....very skeptical woman from this interview.

What do you guys think?

I personally think consciousness does not end.

Best quote for me was .......

"One of the experiences I describe is of the renowned psychologist Carl Jung, who died when he had a heart attack in his 60s. He was ultimately revived, and came back describing, in great detail, how he had seen the universe."

"One of the people I interviewed had a similar experience. And that shocked the hell out of me because that's the kind of experience I would love to have. Like an astronaut's delight. You're up there. You can move toward planets or away from planets. You can see the Earth. It's gorgeous. It's interesting. And it doesn't cost a thing."


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...logy-booktalk/

"They can fly through walls or circle the planets, turn into pure light or meet long-dead relatives. Many have blissful experiences of universal love. Most do not want to return to the living. When they do, they're often endowed with special powers: They can predict the future or intuit people's thoughts.



Many end up unhappy and divorced, rejected by their loved ones or colleagues, burdened with a knowledge they often dare not share. They are the "death travelers."

If this sounds like the movie Flatliners or a science fiction novel by J. G. Ballard, it isn't. These are the testimonies of people who have had near death experiences (NDEs) and returned from the other side to tell the tale.

Journalist Judy Bachrach decided to listen to their stories, and on the way cure her own terror of death.

Here she talks about how advances in medicine are enabling us to raise the dead, why the scientific and religious communities are hostile to the idea of NDEs, and how a British traffic controller returned from the dead with the ability to predict the stock market.

Your book, Glimpsing Heaven: The Stories and Science of Life After Death, opens with you volunteering to work in a hospice. Why?

The person who put the idea in my head was former First Lady Barbara Bush, whose own daughter had died in hospice at the age of four. One of my best friends was dying of cancer. We were both at the time 32 [years old], and I couldn't get over it. I was terrified of death, and I was terrified of her dying. So I decided to start working in a hospice to get over my terror of death.

Until the 20th century, death was determined by holding a mirror to a patient's mouth. If it didn't mist over, the person was dead. We now live in what you call the "age of Lazarus." Can you explain?

Everybody who's been revived by CPR, cardiopulmonary resuscitation—and there are more and more of us—is a formerly dead person. We walk every single day among the formerly dead. Death is no longer simply the cessation of breath or heartbeat or even brain stem activity. These days people can be dead for up to an hour and come back among us and have memories. I call them "death travelers" in the book.

One scientist you spoke to suggests that NDEs may simply result from the brain shutting down, like a computer—that, for instance, the brilliant light often perceived at the end of a tunnel is caused by loss of blood or hypoxia, lack of oxygen. How do you counter these arguments?

The problem with the lack of oxygen explanation is that when there is a lack of oxygen, our recollections are fuzzy and sometimes non-existent. The less oxygen you have, the less you remember. But the people who have died, and recall their death travels, describe things in a very clear, concise, and structured way. Lack of oxygen would mean you barely remember anything.

Most death travelers don't want to return to the living, and when they do, they find it is a painful experience. Tell us about Tony Cicoria.

Tony Cicoria is a neurosurgeon from upstate New York. He was like the rest of us once upon a time. He believed death was death, and that was the end. Then he got struck by lightning. He was on a picnic with his family, talking to his mother on the telephone, when a bolt of lightning hit the phone. The next thing he knew, he was lying on the ground saying to himself, "Oh, my God, I'm dead."

The way he knew he was dead is because he saw his mother-in-law screaming at him. And he called out to her and said, "I'm here! I'm here!" But she didn't hear anything.

Next he was traveling up a flight of steps without walking. He became a bolt of blue light and managed to go through a building. He flew through walls, and he saw his little kids having their faces painted. Right after that, he felt somebody thumping on his chest.

A nurse who was in the vicinity was thumping on his chest. But he did not want to come back to life. Very much like other death travelers, he wanted to stay dead. Being dead is evidently a very interesting experience. And exciting.

You suggest there is a difference between brain function and consciousness. Can you talk about that idea?

This is an area where a lot more scientific research has to be done: that the brain is possibly, and I'm emphasizing the "possibly," not the only area of consciousness. That even when the brain is shut down, on certain occasions consciousness endures. One of the doctors I interviewed, a cardiologist in Holland, believes that consciousness may go on forever. So the postulate among some scientists is that the brain is not the only locus of thought, which is very interesting.



I call the scientists who are involved in research into death travel "Galileos" because, like Galileo himself, who was persecuted by the Inquisition for explaining his theories about the universe, scientists involved in research into what occurs after death are also being persecuted. They're denied tenure. They're told that they're inferior scientists and doctors. They're mocked. Anthony Cicoria, the man who was struck by lightning, didn't tell any of his fellow surgeons about his experience for something like 20 years.

Why do you think the scientific community is so hostile to the idea of NDEs?

It's a really good question. I think the scientific community is very much like I used to be. Journalists tend not to be very religious, we tend not to be very credulous, and we tend to believe the worst possible scenario, which, in this case, is nothing. The scientific community is very materialistic. If you can't see it and you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.

When I gave a speech at the NIH [National Institutes of Health], I talked with the top neurologist there. I said, "Are you doing research on what used to be called near death experiences?" He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, "Why? Does it cure anything?"

T

I think that religion, very much like science, likes to rely on everything that's gone on before. If your grandfather believed something, then you want to believe it. If the scientists who came before you want to believe something, then you believe in it. Because the options for those who deviate are very scary.

Most of the people I interviewed got divorced. That is not uncommon among death travelers. You come back and tell your husband or lover or wife what went on, and they look at you like you're nuts. It's a very scary thing to come back and say, "I remember what happened after death."

The Christian Church, or the Jewish faith, whichever we're talking about, also have very specific views of what life after death should involve. Everybody I interviewed deviated from the traditional theological views. They didn't see angels necessarily. They don't float in heaven. It's not some happy-clappy area of the universe. It's far more complicated—and interesting—than that.

One of the curious facts I discovered reading your book is that women are far less optimistic about their chances of going to heaven than men are. Why is that?

This was told to me by a monk who died by drowning and then returned. Obviously, he'd had a good deal of experience with people confiding in him and confessing. I think it's because women are very self-critical. We're very hard on ourselves. Nothing is ever good enough about us. We're not smart enough. We're not beautiful enough. Look at what we do to our bodies and our faces in the name of perfection! And I think that applies to our chances of getting, if you will, into heaven.

Why is it important for you to believe that there is life after death?

It was not important for me, at all, to believe. I'm a journalist. I don't go around thinking, "I really hope there's life after death." Indeed, at the beginning I was the opposite—I didn't want to believe. Yes, death was a source of terror. For me, the worst thing that could happen was nothingness. I would have far preferred to hear that Satan was waiting for me than to learn that there was nothing. But I was absolutely positive that there was nothing after death—that the curtain descends, and that's it. Act III. It's over. The stage is black.

And when I first ventured into this strange area of research, I was pretty sure, just as you said, that it was all the result of oxygen deprivation and that these were hallucinations. It was only after I discovered that it can't be the result of oxygen deprivation, and these were not hallucinations, that I realized I had to change my views. That's a very difficult thing to do, particularly when you're past adolescence. But every bit of evidence, every single person I interviewed, forced me to change my views. It was something I did quite unwillingly and with a good deal of skepticism.

What I tried to do, as a journalist, was simply record what these people say happened. All I know is what I've reported, which is, when you die, that is not the end. Stuff goes on. That, to me, is weird. But it's true."...more in the article.

[neufox47]

Freaky. My guess is DMT, lack of O2, and probably other shit that we don't know about yet.

[iceman]

To think that we know everything that's going on is pretty silly and very vain. That much I'm certain of. What is reality? What does the future hold? What is death? Anybody that presumes to tell you the answers to these questions is trying to sell you something. I don't fear nothingness, in fact it's a bit of a comforting concept, but I don't necessarily believe it's all that awaits us. Might be, might not be. We'll see, that much is certain. In the meantime, I try to enjoy life.

I died, briefly, but I was already under anesthetic and I don't remember shit. Things just went black when the anesthetic kicked in. I have a vague concept of not being afraid, that's about it. Waking back up after it all was pretty fucking scary for a bit. The fact that I was strapped to a table with a tube down my throat may have been the main reason for that though.

[PNWbrit]

Like an astronaut's delight.

"err.... Houston we have a problem. Buzz keeps leaving his sploogy kleenexs floating around in zero g."

[Mazderati]

[Ski to Be]

NATGEO published her book, "Glimpsing Heaven". She is a journalist....very skeptical woman from this interview.

I think that religion, very much like science, likes to rely on everything that's gone on before. If your grandfather believed something, then you want to believe it. If the scientists who came before you want to believe something, then you believe in it. Because the options for those who deviate are very scary.

.

I don't really agree with this. Scientific Method steers itself and those who adhere to it don't fear the results. That said , a near death experience is hard to quantify in scientific terms . Perhaps the body shifts thoughts away from certain parts of the cerebral cortex when death is imminent . Perhaps there is a universal consciousness that all living creatures share after death. But the notion that I will survive death as an individual conscious spirit seems both self serving and highly unlikely in such a vast universe. Our entire universe could be an atom in another universe and science can only test what is observable so we may never know for sure. I am saying this not having a NDE so I don't know anything for sure.

[Buster Highmen]

I think that religion, very much like science, likes to rely on everything that's gone on before.

This is the most stupid sentence I've read in a long, long time and indicates a complete misunderstanding of the Enlightenment, the nature of Scientific Thought as well as the location of their asshole.

[GiBo]

Our entire universe could be an atom in another universe

[stfu&gbtw]

To think that we know everything that's going on is pretty silly and very vain. That much I'm certain of. What is reality? What does the future hold? What is death? Anybody that presumes to tell you the answers to these questions is trying to sell you something. I don't fear nothingness, in fact it's a bit of a comforting concept, but I don't necessarily believe it's all that awaits us. Might be, might not be. We'll see, that much is certain. In the meantime, I try to enjoy life.

I died, briefly, but I was already under anesthetic and I don't remember shit. Things just went black when the anesthetic kicked in. I have a vague concept of not being afraid, that's about it. Waking back up after it all was pretty fucking scary for a bit. The fact that I was strapped to a table with a tube down my throat may have been the main reason for that though.

It must be unsettling to wake up feeling like you forgot your conciousness in a hot car somewhere...

[bigAK]

Oh goody, another thread where dascunt opines on science. Tell us more professor!

ps, I too have vivid memories of flying through the universe, around planets, through stars, etc. It probably had nothing to do with the psilocybin, opiates, and thc swimming through my brain at the time - if anything, those hindered my brain in accessing this vast consciousness beyond...

[jon gaper]

If a car stopped running,would you assume the driver died?

The only problem with death is that it doesnt last very long. Then you are back on the wheel of samsara

[riser4]

But I'm not dead yet!

[PNWbrit]

If a car stopped running,would you assume the driver died?

Are it's DRLs still on?

[Timberridge]

Are it's DRLs still on?

In Canada, they have to be. It's the law.

[hutash]

...and yet these people who die, see the universe and come back can never tell one iota of information that isn't already known. It's all bullshit, but it sales books.

[skiballs]

I died, briefly, but I was already under anesthetic and I don't remember shit. Things just went black when the anesthetic kicked in. I have a vague concept of not being afraid, that's about it. Waking back up after it all was pretty fucking scary for a bit. The fact that I was strapped to a table with a tube down my throat may have been the main reason for that though.

Well I anesthetized myself with a 1/5 of southern comfort, Regaining consciousness strapped to a gurney is weird. I always thought that book "pale rider" (i think that's the title) had a good take on the whole death think.

[Buster Highmen]

“Everybody does have a book in them, but in most cases that's where it should stay.”
― Christopher Hitchens

[skiballs]

^ that's what some folks say about programmers and programs.

[El Chupacabra]

If a car stopped running,would you assume the driver died?

Depends. Did you check the spare?

[The AD]

This is the most stupid sentence I've read in a long, long time and indicates a complete misunderstanding of the Enlightenment, the nature of Scientific Thought as well as the location of their asshole.

This, however might be one of the greatest!

[Trashcan]

My own experience, went into the hospital in December 2012 from throwing up blood. In hospital had a complete bleed out (not good) with liver failure. I had a three week stay and for days was out with a tipps procedure to keep my liver to function to keep me alive and a less than 10% recovery. I remember seeing myself in the hospital bed with a big white helmet on my head a tube ox mask on my face. I also looked fucking huge.
When I came to nurse was screaming at me to throw up if I wanted to live. Later I looked at my body and was huge with fluid in me. Gained 30 lbs in 4 days from fluid retention. Found out later that I had a helmet on my head and it was white. I never saw the universe but it was a life changing moment for me. So think what you want but trust me you don't want to test those waters unless it happens.

[jma233]

My inner dialogue when someone starts talking to me about heaven or an afterlife: "Don't be a fucking child. That shit is for Sunday school and young children. Of course I'm going to tell a 6yo that their dog/gramps/etc is in heaven because its a sweet notion that makes life a little less scary when you're that age. But this DB right in front of me is old enough to know better. What, do you believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too you moronic chump? Fuck my life."

What I actually say: "So, do you think Peyton can go all the way this year?"

[splat]

I've died a couple times and didn't even know it until I was told. Disappointed as hell. I wanted to be able to remember some vivid experience with 17 virgins. Something. A pitchfork would have been fine. But, alas...
I would be content as hell if it was anywhere close to a good dmt trip.

[Trashcan]

My inner dialogue when someone starts talking to me about heaven or an afterlife: "Don't be a fucking child. That shit is for Sunday school and young children. Of course I'm going to tell a 6yo that their dog/gramps/etc is in heaven because its a sweet notion that makes life a little less scary when you're that age. But this DB right in front of me is old enough to know better. What, do you believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too you moronic chump? Fuck my life."

What I actually say: "So, do you think Peyton can go all the way this year?"

Umm if you are referring to me go fuck yourself! If not then carry on with the usual shitshow

[splat]

I think he's channeling....