Schwalbe ProCore

[grskier]

Figured that this could use it's own thread..

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/featu...46/bturman,109

It's been updated with a single stem... $200 bucks for initial setup seems a bit steep though.... Sounds great in theory, but at only 10 psi, wouldn't that rubber roll on itself a bit too easily?

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's a Schwalbe so the knobs will just start breaking off and wearing out right away, anyway.

[mntlion]

good idea, Nice to see companies trying something new. (yes, it is expensive and odds are the tires are "race" and not durable) Is the ghetto version, drill a second valve hole in the rim, a 650 road tube at 60PSI in one, and a tubeless in the other?

[jono]

Is the ghetto version, drill a second valve hole in the rim, a 650 road tube at 60PSI in one, and a tubeless in the other?

Yes. Obviously this might help reduce flats, but does it also provide backup air in case of a puncture? Lot of weird scenarios come to mind, but they're all better than a flat in a race, I would think. Not running for my drill or anything, but that's interesting.

[BushwackerinPA]

so this system can be mounted on to any rim, and any tire, there is no need to run Scwalbe tires.

The outer tire if punctured and left unsealed will make it still pretty squirrelly but much more rideable that a flat as the tire would still be beadlocked onto the rim.

[Esses]

What is the point? To run lower pressures? To avoid burps?

Seems like unnecessary complexity.

[kidwoo]

The point is to run lower pressures while still having the structural support of a higher pressure inner tube that's not in contact with the tire. I would assume to also reduce the chance of puncturing the tire since there's some padding in there from the inner thingy.

From the riding pics I saw of bikes with it earlier this year, it looked like a squirmy setup. I could see it having some benefit on slower trails where you're not deforming your tire very much but even at 35psi on a 2.3ish tubeless setup, there's plenty of force deforming your tire in turns at 15-20mph.

[JeffreyJim]

The point is to run lower pressures while still having the structural support of a higher pressure inner tube that's non in contact with the tire. I would assume to also reduce the chance of puncturing the tire since there's some padding in there from the inner thingy.

From the riding pics I saw of bikes with it earlier this year, it looked like a squirmy setup. I could see it having some benefit on slower trails where you're not deforming your tire very much but even at 35psi on a 2.3ish tubeless setup, there's plenty of force deforming your tire in turns at 15-20mph.

You beat me to it...

[stuckathuntermtn]

So it's $200 and it rides like shit. Where do I sign up?!

[kidwoo]

So it's $200 and it rides like shit. Where do I sign up?!

You have no idea what it rides like.

Just because a tire looks squished out because the outer chamber is low pressure doesn't mean it's enough to translate into what it feels like to ride a truly flat tire. Even I'm willing to accept that possibility.


If anything, my gripe is with the weight at this point.

[Esses]

Maybe I should've been more specific...

What's the point of running 10 psi? Seems squirmy as fuck. I guess if you were racing and this was way to insure no flats it'd make sense.

[kidwoo]

Maybe I should've been more specific...

What's the point of running 10 psi? Seems squirmy as fuck. I guess if you were racing and this was way to insure no flats it'd make sense.

I don't know about 10 but maybe 20psi wouldn't be so bad. Again this is just in the outer 'chamber' which is going to be a much smaller volume than what we're used to in a normal tire. Pressure will shoot up pretty quickly when it's on the ground getting compressed. With the added secondary structure of the inner thingy (now my official name ) it's not going to feel like a regular tire at 10-20 psi.

I'm skeptical too but I'd like to try it out. I still wish 100% of the tire making industries' efforts were going into lighter tougher casings though, instead of dedicating resources to this kind of shit and tread design ideas that were already retired over a decade ago.

The squishy looking pics I saw when schwalbe did a press camp with these things......forget who it was but they said they were still getting flats. I'd have to assume schwalbe sent them out with something stupid (like 10psi) on them. But without knowing what they were running their tires at, "looks squishy" is only so relevant.

[shirk]

200g inner thingy + 700g tire = 900g.

It had better have much much better flat resistance compared to running an 1100g tire.

Ultra low psi is for fat bikes. It would be nice to safely run 25ish psi and not have to dial it back when you see a rock.

It would be nice if we didn't have to run 30psi on 800-900g tires and still worry about pinch flats.

We're not asking for sub 500g tires that ride like 1200g.

[Esses]

This has some interesting observations...

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Schwalb...irst-ride.html

It sounds like what would be a pinch flat inflates the tire more.

[stuckathuntermtn]

"It's about tuning the spring curve of the tire."


Hahaha, blow me.

[SDW]

The same concept works great on a dirt bike:
http://nuetech.com/tubliss/

I've been using the tubliss for a few years now, and didn't like it much at first, but once the learning curve was over I'd find it hard to go back to the traditional tire/tube combo

[grskier]

The same concept works great on a dirt bike:
http://nuetech.com/tubliss/

I've been using the tubliss for a few years now, and didn't like it much at first, but once the learning curve was over I'd find it hard to go back to the traditional tire/tube combo

What did the learning curve entail?

[SDW]

1. Tire pressures are much more sensitive at lower pressures. A few PSI near 12 to 15lbs (typical tubed moto pressure) doesn't mean as much as a few PSI near 7 or 8lbs (typical with tubliss).
2. Tire installation and changes are fairly different. I had and still have a hard time not grabbing the tubliss with my tire irons, which damages the liner under high leverage with big steel tire spoons. I'd guess this will not be as much of a headache on MTB as it is for me on moto due to tire stiffness and leverage needed.
3. Dealing with flats: on a moto I found it important to run Slime with tubliss, but at first this made it harder for me to plug tires using a conventional plug kit as compared to on a dry tire. Unless someone makes a mini plug kit for thinner MTB tires, I think dealing with flats will be a little harder for folks at first. Sidewall tears are close to irreparable in the field using tubliss on a moto - my guess is this will be much more achievable on MTB due to greater ease removing the whole system trailside.

My generally positive experience with tubliss leads me to look forward to the MTB version, though I may not line up to be an early adopter.

Also, I think it's $200 for both front and rear, not per wheel. This is in line with the moto version, and while still expensive, it's not so bad considering the potential benefits.

[scrublover]

I suppose if earning my living partly depended on not flatting it'd be a good option.

Otherwise, meh. As others say, I'd rather just take the weight penalty with a beefier tire anyhow. So you could run a lighter tire and not pinch, but still have to deal with punctures and sidewall cuts? Great.

[stuckathuntermtn]

So it's not an original idea either. Great.

[Lindahl]

I suppose if earning my living partly depended on not flatting it'd be a good option.

Otherwise, meh. As others say, I'd rather just take the weight penalty with a beefier tire anyhow. So you could run a lighter tire and not pinch, but still have to deal with punctures and sidewall cuts? Great.

My thoughts too. I'll just deal with a flat rather than the faff and hassle of this system. Also, seems like the only benefits is lower pressure. My pressures are purely based on sidewall squirm. Doesn't look like this will help. Color me skeptical as well.

[Esses]

More propaganda…

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/sam-hil...ore-tires.html

[jm2e]

Me and the couple of people I ride with have hand a hard run of flats lately. Several different kinds of tires. Different sized people. Varying terrain, but all trending to lots of rocks. It's hard not to get pissed when you see sealant spitting out of a tire with no chance of it actually doing much.
/blog

[scrublover]

Me and the couple of people I ride with have hand a hard run of flats lately. Several different kinds of tires. Different sized people. Varying terrain, but all trending to lots of rocks. It's hard not to get pissed when you see sealant spitting out of a tire with no chance of it actually doing much.
/blog

Yes. Recently destroyed a Speci Butcher 2.3 with a big hole right smack in the middle ( bad line choice, center punched on a sharp rawk) and a Ground Control with a long open slash to the sidewall. Attempts to repair proved fruitless. They were both of the lighter variety of Speci tubeless ready stuff, whatever the hell it's called. I can't imagine something Like ProCore would have done much good - I'm still having to buy a new tire...

Lesson learned. I'll take the extra grams at the sidewall for durability in the long run.

Now, that stuff about it interacting with the suspension is pretty damn cool. But again, for a slow Joe like me (and the vast majority of other mtbers out there) who isn't trying to earn a living by riding? Meh. I'm fairly certain I'm not pushing my suspension hard enough to likely notice this making much difference. Who knows? Maybe it'll really work as advertised, and five years from now be a more or less standard thing at a certain price-point with new bikes/tires.

[stuckathuntermtn]

You ever think maybe if you didn't run 20's psi on some bullshit nonstandard "tubeless ready" mishmash of rims,tires, and tape,that you wouldn't be tearing holes in your tires?
I think I'd like to do tubeless and drop a few psi on top of all the rotating weight, but the whole thing seems like such a sketchy "system".